I am 183 cm and had no problems to fit the original cars.
Hazze
Hazze
Best 917
- Thread starter Igofaster
- Start date
An extra 4" inches makes all the difference!!!!
Yes, original cars had your feet well in front of the centerline of the front wheel, have never sat in an original mind.
Howard Jones
Supporter
When I was in the final stages of ordering my SLC I nearly changed my mind seeing the RCR 917. It's the differences between the original tube chassis and the RCR car that attracted me to it. I have had a very long look at a 910 Porsche in my neighborhood and got to know the owner pretty well.
The one thing that really stuck me about that car was he repeatedly told me how dangerous it was to drive anywhere near 10/10s. In his opinion, any frontal shunt at the speeds the car was capable of wasn't survivable. The biggest diameter tubing in the chassis was something like 3/4 " and it had NO real roll cage to speak of. The two of us could lift the chassis with the suspension on it and put it up on a table for god sake.
The 917's I have seen pictures of naked don't really look any more robust than that 910. Fran's 917 is built like my SLC with a very strong drivers cell made from aluminum PLATE and it has a very complete roll cage built onto it. I am sure that belted into a properly mounted race seat the driver would fare very well in quite a shunt. The car might be a total but the driver would more than likely walk away. The same hit in a period 917 would surly kill the driver.
This is a common problem with old race cars, they just are not safe to drive anywhere near their potential performance envelope. This is why I am building a SLC and retiring my GT40 from track use. The SLC is much....much safer. In the end the larger interior of the SLC is what swung the balance in the SLC's direction among other considerations but I stood there and stared at that 917 for nearly an hour before hand.
If I win the lotto my first call will be to Fran.
The one thing that really stuck me about that car was he repeatedly told me how dangerous it was to drive anywhere near 10/10s. In his opinion, any frontal shunt at the speeds the car was capable of wasn't survivable. The biggest diameter tubing in the chassis was something like 3/4 " and it had NO real roll cage to speak of. The two of us could lift the chassis with the suspension on it and put it up on a table for god sake.
The 917's I have seen pictures of naked don't really look any more robust than that 910. Fran's 917 is built like my SLC with a very strong drivers cell made from aluminum PLATE and it has a very complete roll cage built onto it. I am sure that belted into a properly mounted race seat the driver would fare very well in quite a shunt. The car might be a total but the driver would more than likely walk away. The same hit in a period 917 would surly kill the driver.
This is a common problem with old race cars, they just are not safe to drive anywhere near their potential performance envelope. This is why I am building a SLC and retiring my GT40 from track use. The SLC is much....much safer. In the end the larger interior of the SLC is what swung the balance in the SLC's direction among other considerations but I stood there and stared at that 917 for nearly an hour before hand.
If I win the lotto my first call will be to Fran.
Well,
This is a just purely theoretical right now...I've no plans on selling the GT (or any other cars) at the moment, and that would have to happen before any new purchases.
At 6'1.5", with a long back, I"m not sure that I would fit, though it sounds like I might. I'm not that worried about having my feet dangle out in front of the axles...I never crash. Funny how long that was considered safe...I believe the 956 morphed into the 962 because regulations eventually required the feet to be behind the front axles.
Anyway, as with the GT, I'd prefer a 917 that was more original rather than less...warts and all. It sounds like RCR (NLA) and Kraftwerk may have the most origianl bodies. The tube frames may be a toss up. How about the suspension? Hazze, you've seen both. Obviously, billit is hardly original, how about everything else. Geomatry? What about the Kraftwerk car (asside from the lack of the cage) made you think it was less track worthy? What do the uprights look like?
906er...if you're listening, you have some affiliation, right? Anything to add?
This is a just purely theoretical right now...I've no plans on selling the GT (or any other cars) at the moment, and that would have to happen before any new purchases.
At 6'1.5", with a long back, I"m not sure that I would fit, though it sounds like I might. I'm not that worried about having my feet dangle out in front of the axles...I never crash. Funny how long that was considered safe...I believe the 956 morphed into the 962 because regulations eventually required the feet to be behind the front axles.
Anyway, as with the GT, I'd prefer a 917 that was more original rather than less...warts and all. It sounds like RCR (NLA) and Kraftwerk may have the most origianl bodies. The tube frames may be a toss up. How about the suspension? Hazze, you've seen both. Obviously, billit is hardly original, how about everything else. Geomatry? What about the Kraftwerk car (asside from the lack of the cage) made you think it was less track worthy? What do the uprights look like?
906er...if you're listening, you have some affiliation, right? Anything to add?
What is truly amazing therefore, is the fact that despite this, the only unfortunate person to lose his life in a 917 was "Gentleman Racer" John Woolfe at the 1968 Le Mans and he really wasn't up to the job to begin with. It was only delivered to him just hours before the race and his driving partner crashed it in practice and formally withdrew saying that it was too much car for him. Woolfe persevered but over revved the engine and blew it (where have we heard that one before).
Despite all these very poor omens, he wangled a new engine out of Porsche (the whole car cost him £16,000 back then) and he lost his life on the opening lap of the race proper. I believe it was a seat belt issue because they banned the traditional Le Mans running start after that.
Just the one life lost when all about were crashing continuously - that's one heck of a record for an unsafe car! Woolfe just failed to read the signs...
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Keith,
Yes, only Mr Woolfe died, but there were a number of very lucky survivors.........
Here is Steve McQueen looking over whats left of David Pipers 917.
This is Kurt Ahrens 917, they say he walked away.
They all seem to have broken in half, right in front of the seat.
Yes, only Mr Woolfe died, but there were a number of very lucky survivors.........
Here is Steve McQueen looking over whats left of David Pipers 917.
This is Kurt Ahrens 917, they say he walked away.
They all seem to have broken in half, right in front of the seat.
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Pffft.....
Jim, are you saying Ferrari make 'dangerous' cars in 2014? If so you'd better have a large and very fat chequebook.
It's all about the crash energy. Your pictures prove nothing about the 917.
I have hundreds more like this one, none of them 917's, all of them new.
Anyway enough already - are you trying to frighten the potential buyers? I was putting a positive spin on it.
Jim, are you saying Ferrari make 'dangerous' cars in 2014? If so you'd better have a large and very fat chequebook.
It's all about the crash energy. Your pictures prove nothing about the 917.
I have hundreds more like this one, none of them 917's, all of them new.
Anyway enough already - are you trying to frighten the potential buyers? I was putting a positive spin on it.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Keith,
Don't get me wrong, I love the 917 and someday I may just have one. But they were very light cars raced very fast, back when safety was fairly low on the priority list....
I'm fairly sure that any of the 917 made today are considerable stronger than the original Porsche built race cars.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 917 and someday I may just have one. But they were very light cars raced very fast, back when safety was fairly low on the priority list....
I'm fairly sure that any of the 917 made today are considerable stronger than the original Porsche built race cars.
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Ron R.....
mine is best....why, because I like it and I say so....:thumbsup:
mine is best....why, because I like it and I say so....:thumbsup:
I agree with Jim, I'm building an alloy Mono in the same way it was in 72 and people say "how Safe" but lets be realistic, none of these car will ever be raced in anger as they were in their day so safety comes down to the person at the controls and we all know the risk we just have to manage it the best we can. As for the best 917?? thats in the eye of the beholder, nobody is going to say their's is the second best are they.
Cheers Leon.
Cheers Leon.
My ideal car would be as close to original as possible within reason. I'd like an accurate tube frame, an accurate body, and a suspension that mirrored the original geometry. Billit aly uprights, rather than cast magnesium is fine. I'd want 15 inch wheels. It's unlikely I'd be coming up with a flat 12, but I'd like one to fit if I did. I'd plan in a 6 cylinder boxer, and a Porsche box, probably 930.
The car doesn't have to be a perfect copy, but I'd like all the major bits to be spot on.
Someone really needs to come up with a longtail version so I can get a hippie paint job and feel good about it.
The car doesn't have to be a perfect copy, but I'd like all the major bits to be spot on.
Someone really needs to come up with a longtail version so I can get a hippie paint job and feel good about it.
Ron,
I can tell you without a word of doubt that you most certainly would not want original suspension geometry. Having studied multiple variations of original suspension the only way I can describe it accurately is
"its bloody awful" some of the originals don't even have upper and lower geometry that act on the same plane ...Yikes
So what you really want is an original car that not really as bad as an original but has the modern upgrades in materials and design that a modern car benefits from but make it able to house a $500,000 engine and a $100,000 transaxle which you would need to be able to run a 12 cylinder engine......oh and make it have a body that's not available on all but a dozen or so original multi million dollar originals.....
Jeez you are easy to please...cant you actually make it something unattainable....wink
I can tell you without a word of doubt that you most certainly would not want original suspension geometry. Having studied multiple variations of original suspension the only way I can describe it accurately is
"its bloody awful" some of the originals don't even have upper and lower geometry that act on the same plane ...Yikes
So what you really want is an original car that not really as bad as an original but has the modern upgrades in materials and design that a modern car benefits from but make it able to house a $500,000 engine and a $100,000 transaxle which you would need to be able to run a 12 cylinder engine......oh and make it have a body that's not available on all but a dozen or so original multi million dollar originals.....
Jeez you are easy to please...cant you actually make it something unattainable....wink
Nah, I'd be happy with a modern rendition under a classic body with all of the safety improvements available from the 45 years that have since passed.
Actually I'd be happier if I could afford that...
Actually I'd be happier if I could afford that...
Actually seems that the solution that matches best your dreams is the one from there ; http://www.farouxsportscars.com/917k/ ?????
You want a matching tube chassis but rinforced ; seems it is ! watch at Mr noo thread and how seroius are the tube dia and laser cuts
You want nice matching body work ; seems they have a very close copy with superb molds doing efficient parts !
You want safety ; they had the good idea of placing the central bulkhead just more to the rear so legs are protected with out modifying the internal aspect too much of original deal
You want Porsche Boxer engine ; that's not a bad idea because you will save a lot of time in adapting gear box ( the Boxer is a middle engine yet !!!)
Adapting some Jenvey throttle plus some bespoke Ecu ( you can find already programed ones in Uk for low price ; EMERALD do one very usefull and Handy) .From what I understood the Faroux 917 is already studied with Porsche boxer mounts that will be on the chassis tube kit ?
You want 15" replica wheels ; there are cheap ones made in UK and are in aluminium ( no worry with magnesium ) They come with bolted rims from the inside so no bolts seen from out side and you can suit these to your tyres requirement
May be this kit is a new one so no many done , so evry details to discover but it's a good opportunity to have good help from these people to built a nice replica car for reasonable amount.
You want a hippy car ; no need to have a long tail same painting was in race in the 70's world champion ship during US or South Africa race just browse onto Martini racing history of their various 917 liveries
And Finally if you want to really replicate and historic car with no need of an 12 cylinder engine ; just replicate the Yellow Kremer K81 racing in le mans 1981 !! this unique 917 was a modern recreation ( autorised by Porche !!) fit with a 6 cylinder ( watercooled ) turbo engine ( you can very easily find those in any 964 or 996 actual ones !!!)
The body is a short one , plus fins , plus wings , plus front spoiler !!!!!!!!!
Suspensions where updated to be more soft and effective
The shape is 917 but the look is so modern so what more can you ask ?
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Does nobody do searches to see all that has been said before.
Cannot be raced like they used to, uprights not strong enough, only for show or street use, not big enough cockpits, this maker does this, and that maker does that !!!!!!!!!!
For heavens sake. Do the research thoroughly about the original cars and their concept before even thinking about writing incorrect statements about the different makers or buying one. Two of the manufacturers only do complete cars to your spec, and they, or a kit, by the time it is finished, will be expensive.
By all means pose in one, dream of one, but if you really want to run one hard, or even race one, put on a completely different thinking cap if you want to retain original looks and chassis type. They are inherently dangerous cars NO MATTER what you do to them, so no maker of them is any better than the next one, other than in "authenticity".
If you hit anything, especially head on, you are probably going to be in very big trouble, and yes, they are very prone to break in half if you have a "biggie".
I was the first person to actually race a replica 917K back in September 2005 at Spa in the one hour GT race. In its very FIRST untested run and official qualifying, out of 82 (eighty two) I was 17th fastest, and that was just using 4th and fifth gear (gear changing problems) and touched 162mph in places so I knew then just what potential this replica had, and despite setbacks and much expensive development work over the following years, I am still racing it, and hard.
I got into trouble with some viewers many moons ago on this site, when I compared the GT40 to a comfortable sofa, as opposed to the 917 being like a scalded cat on steroids. I still hold that view based on experience of racing both.
I you want AUTHENTICITY don,t go thinking that you will be able to easily hop in and drive off into the sunset every time you turn the key.
It will bite, and if you are over 5ft 10inches visit a surgeon because they are tight.
Oh, and don,t argue with 4x4s. They will win ........ see photo !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cannot be raced like they used to, uprights not strong enough, only for show or street use, not big enough cockpits, this maker does this, and that maker does that !!!!!!!!!!
For heavens sake. Do the research thoroughly about the original cars and their concept before even thinking about writing incorrect statements about the different makers or buying one. Two of the manufacturers only do complete cars to your spec, and they, or a kit, by the time it is finished, will be expensive.
By all means pose in one, dream of one, but if you really want to run one hard, or even race one, put on a completely different thinking cap if you want to retain original looks and chassis type. They are inherently dangerous cars NO MATTER what you do to them, so no maker of them is any better than the next one, other than in "authenticity".
If you hit anything, especially head on, you are probably going to be in very big trouble, and yes, they are very prone to break in half if you have a "biggie".
I was the first person to actually race a replica 917K back in September 2005 at Spa in the one hour GT race. In its very FIRST untested run and official qualifying, out of 82 (eighty two) I was 17th fastest, and that was just using 4th and fifth gear (gear changing problems) and touched 162mph in places so I knew then just what potential this replica had, and despite setbacks and much expensive development work over the following years, I am still racing it, and hard.
I got into trouble with some viewers many moons ago on this site, when I compared the GT40 to a comfortable sofa, as opposed to the 917 being like a scalded cat on steroids. I still hold that view based on experience of racing both.
I you want AUTHENTICITY don,t go thinking that you will be able to easily hop in and drive off into the sunset every time you turn the key.
It will bite, and if you are over 5ft 10inches visit a surgeon because they are tight.
Oh, and don,t argue with 4x4s. They will win ........ see photo !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I would agree - having been in a CAV GT40 and an SL-C I would describe both of them as a comfortable sofa. I get in my 917 and it's like .... I want my mommy, I'm skurrred *sucks thumb*
And that's just sitting in my garage realizing my head is level with my headlights on my z06, lol..... you guys who race these are batshit crazy, no doubt :drunk:
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