Help - first GT40 - which would you buy?

[David]

Hi everyone,

My name is Dave and I live in sunny Queensland, Australia. I will apologize up front for the long winded post! I'm a modified car tragic, Ford nut and as you can imagine, my dream car has always been a GT40. I have worked hard to get myself into a financial position where I can finally build one. However, with running numerous businesses, I am very time poor. So rather than build one from scratch, I find myself looking at buying one already done, with the probability of changing the things I don't like to suit my tastes.

This is where I need your help!!!

There is a company in NSW with 2 GT40's ready to go. Both are registered, engineered and mod plated in Queensland. Great for me! They are both fairly well priced in my opinion, and with the market as it is here at the moment, I dare say the seller will be negotiable. Here are the 2 listings:

2007 Ford GT40 Orange Coupe | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Kogarah Area - Carss Park | 1317160825

Free Delivery Australia WideFord MK1 GT40 Replica Built on the Gold Coast in 2007 Running a 46L V8 Cobra Mustang Engine 5 Speed Manual Renault UN5 Transmission ..., 1317160825

www.gumtree.com.au

2002 Ford GT40 Yellow 5 Speed Manual Coupe | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Kogarah Area - Carss Park | 1313654156

Free Delivery Australia WideFord GT40 Replica DRB Body Build Completed in 2002 by Classic 40 Engineering, taking approximately 4 12 years to complete Running ..., 1313654156

www.gumtree.com.au

So here are my comments and questions that I seek your advice on.

Orange car - The transaxle is a Renault UN5. What are these rated to? What are these transmissions like to drive? What is the shift pattern? What did they come out of? I've never had a transaxle car so this is absolute foreign territory to me. I did some searching on here, but I can't really find much on this ( I see info on the UN1 but I don't know the difference ). The seller says the engine is standard, but I like modified, so I want to know if there is room to grow with this transaxle. Or, are there decent aftermarket parts that you can beef these up with?

Yellow car - Transaxle is a Porsche G50. I found more info on this, but most people still rate them quite low. I do understand it has a lot to do with how much grip you have and how you drive it. I don't abuse my cars, but I want to use them and hear that Windsor sing. What would this transaxle be rated to? Again, is there much aftermarket stuff out there to beef these up so they can handle more power? I have a Dart block 347 engine here, forged crank, rods, pistons, AFR alloy heads and another 8 itb intake.... ultimately I'd like to make around 550hp and be able to drive this thing 800km without any problems. But I need the transaxle to be able to handle some spirited driving and not worry about it falling to pieces.

With all of that said, out of the 2 cars, which would you prefer and why? Both of them I would repaint ( probably black ), so colour isn't a huge deal to me. They are as good as the other as far as I'm concerned. I have a mate with a trim shop so I can get the orange car retrimmed all nice as it's pretty ugly inside lol.

 

[Julian]

I cannot speak to the UN1, but I have a G50 behind 600HP / 500 ftlb TQ in my Ultima, most of it's miles have been on track with slicks and never once have I had cause for concern on the transaxle. That said, it is modified with billet side plates, internal oil spray bar and a side shift conversion, so to answer your question, yes the G50 can be beefed up, others might tell you it's good to go as is for your intended use.

PORSCHE G50 TRANSMISSION

G50/00, G50/01, G50/02, G50/03, G50/04, G50/05, G50/50, G50/52, G50/20, G50/21, G64/00, G64/01, G64/20, G64/51, G64/52

californiamotorsports.net

 

[Lee Patterson]

Since you are already prepared to paint either car a new color, pick the one that has the best Chassis/body/suspension and use that as the basis of your final desired state. If you have to change the gearbox, it's only money!

 

[Howard Jones]

If both cars have unmodified as originally produced transaxles and they are in good condition then the yellow car with the G50 can handle an easy 400HP and the Renault R21 can handle about 300HP. This is a very vague statement because both of these transaxles can be modified to handle at least a 100Hp more than that.

Having said that, the Porsche G50 is a better transaxle, and in my mind, that's without a doubt. The Porsche gearbox was used for about 10 years jn 911's. The R21 was used in Renault compact cars and utility vans mostly. The g50 was produced in far larger numbers and is still pretty easy to source parts and services for. The Renault is quite a bit rarer in both parts' availability and service vendors. You being in Australia compounds this quite a bit I would guess.

Ask the seller if they have any additional information on the transaxles and if they have been modified. If they have you need to see the documentation. Should you get something from him come back here and we can help you further.

Also, ask for information on the engine vendor and tuner. If you get it then call the engine builder/tuner and ask a lot about the completeness of the tune and suitability for road use.

I also like the Winsor more because the real car used one. However because both cars use electronic fuel injection I would insist on a comprehensive test drive, due to the custom tune needed to make them run well. Pay special attention to the ease of shifting with both cars. Both of these gearboxes use a relatively low 1st gear ratio of about 3.5 to 1 and you will notice this right away. The Renaults can be more difficult to select gears, especially when downshifting, and use a very small and torque-limited clutch in the standard configuration. Generally speaking (again) the Renault is not suited for a V8 in standard form. The Porsche also uses a low first gear but is otherwise suited fairly well to a V8 up to about 400 ft/lbs and about 400hp.

So on this very limited evaluation, I would buy the Yellow car with the G50 and the Winsor. I would also add that I have a Renault R21 in my GT40 and a G50 in my SLC. Both have been comprehensively modified by well-known, respected vendors using high-quality components.

If you use the search feature at the top of the page then you should be able to find a lot of information on available upgrades for these transaxles.

 

[Scott Calabro]

FYI the UN5 is much different than the UN1 although they appear similar. The UN5 has a 9.5 inch ring gear and 4 spider differential. I believe the input/main shaft is longer as well.
Here is a good link right here on the forum.

Renault UN5 Trans

I got a mate,-- right ! Maybe an equal alternative to the becoming scarce G50 . Reportedly, used extensively in off road applications (dune buggies) where they endure some severe shock load treatments. Just gotta do up a pattern for the various bell housings

www.gt40s.com

 

[Markus]

In addition to the posts above.

Only observations- no opinion / questions to consider:

Yellow car:

• Engine compartment more authentic
• Drive shaft with u-joints!?
• Quality & Optics of Interieur with Haltec Dash?
• Make sure all the Haltec stuff needed comes with the car (Software with full access to all tables, dongle, connecting cables, password if needed, etc.)
• Do you have Haltec Knowledge / do you have a capable tuner in your area?
• More authentic wheels
• Air filter available? Wear on engine from running w/o filters?
• Older
• Higher milage
• G50 gearbox (higher power rating)

Orange car:

• Cleaner, fresher Interieur
• Serial engine with serial FI (easier to handle?)
• Drive shafts with CV-joints
• Newer
• Less mileage
• Renault gearbox (lower power rating)

 

[Matt]

Hi David. I'm in Melbourne and have been researching similar. Have you heard of Superformance? Well worth a look and they have a distributor here in Melbourne. For my money and available time this is the way to go. I'm still working on the money side of it but it is the plan. I've been to the distributor, met John who runs it and inspected the cars. Great cars in my opinion.

 

[David]

If both cars have unmodified as originally produced transaxles and they are in good condition then the yellow car with the G50 can handle an easy 400HP and the Renault R21 can handle about 300HP. This is a very vague statement because both of these transaxles can be modified to handle at least a 100Hp more than that.

Having said that, the Porsche G50 is a better transaxle, and in my mind, that's without a doubt. The Porsche gearbox was used for about 10 years jn 911's. The R21 was used in Renault compact cars and utility vans mostly. The g50 was produced in far larger numbers and is still pretty easy to source parts and services for. The Renault is quite a bit rarer in both parts' availability and service vendors. You being in Australia compounds this quite a bit I would guess.

Ask the seller if they have any additional information on the transaxles and if they have been modified. If they have you need to see the documentation. Should you get something from him come back here and we can help you further.

Also, ask for information on the engine vendor and tuner. If you get it then call the engine builder/tuner and ask a lot about the completeness of the tune and suitability for road use.

I also like the Winsor more because the real car used one. However because both cars use electronic fuel injection I would insist on a comprehensive test drive, due to the custom tune needed to make them run well. Pay special attention to the ease of shifting with both cars. Both of these gearboxes use a relatively low 1st gear ratio of about 3.5 to 1 and you will notice this right away. The Renaults can be more difficult to select gears, especially when downshifting, and use a very small and torque-limited clutch in the standard configuration. Generally speaking (again) the Renault is not suited for a V8 in standard form. The Porsche also uses a low first gear but is otherwise suited fairly well to a V8 up to about 400 ft/lbs and about 400hp.

So on this very limited evaluation, I would buy the Yellow car with the G50 and the Winsor. I would also add that I have a Renault R21 in my GT40 and a G50 in my SLC. Both have been comprehensively modified by well-known, respected vendors using high-quality components.

If you use the search feature at the top of the page then you should be able to find a lot of information on available upgrades for these transaxles.

This is pretty much the conclusion I came to also. I was more of a fan ( from what I've read ) of the G50 over the Renault transaxle. I have asked for more information on the transaxle and engine, but all I got was "it's all standard". I've got a mate who has a trim shop as well as a painter mate, so I think the Yellow one is the go on paper. I will drive them both, but if the G50 lends itself to better aftermarket parts, I think I would go that way.

 

[David]

In addition to the posts above.

Only observations- no opinion / questions to consider:

Yellow car:

• Engine compartment more authentic
• Drive shaft with u-joints!?
• Quality & Optics of Interieur with Haltec Dash?
• Make sure all the Haltec stuff needed comes with the car (Software with full access to all tables, dongle, connecting cables, password if needed, etc.)
• Do you have Haltec Knowledge / do you have a capable tuner in your area?
• More authentic wheels
• Air filter available? Wear on engine from running w/o filters?
• Older
• Higher milage
• G50 gearbox (higher power rating)

Orange car:

• Cleaner, fresher Interieur
• Serial engine with serial FI (easier to handle?)
• Drive shafts with CV-joints
• Newer
• Less mileage
• Renault gearbox (lower power rating)

You hit the nail on the head I think. I don't like the Haltec dash, but I was thinking of perhaps mounting it to the underside of the dash, in front of the shifter. I want to look at genuine gauges. I did find pictures of this car from 2 years ago before the Haltec dash went on. Seller has said all gauges work as per normal. My mechanic is a Haltec guru, so no problems there. The yellow one I would assume has all the bugs ironed out, being that it's been on the road for 20 years. I was thinking of "refreshing" anything that needs it, when I do the paint and build the new engine. Also agree, no filters on the stacks could be an issue..... I was thinking that I might fabricate up some air filter recesses in the rear cabin air induction scoops, as using filters on ITB's severely hampers their power output.

 

[David]

Hi David. I'm in Melbourne and have been researching similar. Have you heard of Superformance? Well worth a look and they have a distributor here in Melbourne. For my money and available time this is the way to go. I'm still working on the money side of it but it is the plan. I've been to the distributor, met John who runs it and inspected the cars. Great cars in my opinion.

I have heard of them and will take a look.