Chassis questions...?
- Thread starter Mark IV
- Start date
Hey Marco,
Welcome back. We have missed you! And I hope you didn't take offense when I said I thought you might be Shadow - the way I read Shadow's posts (and they're gone now, apparently deleted by Shadow himself), it looked like he was saying some of the same things you have said in the past in a general sense, but people were taking it as a personal attack.
Just so there's no confusion, in my opinion:
Marco is a good guy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Chris is a good guy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Shadow, well I have no idea about Shadow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but at least he's gone so I guess it doesn't matter.
Welcome back. We have missed you! And I hope you didn't take offense when I said I thought you might be Shadow - the way I read Shadow's posts (and they're gone now, apparently deleted by Shadow himself), it looked like he was saying some of the same things you have said in the past in a general sense, but people were taking it as a personal attack.
Just so there's no confusion, in my opinion:
Marco is a good guy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Chris is a good guy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Shadow, well I have no idea about Shadow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but at least he's gone so I guess it doesn't matter.
Steve and all...
SO now that we have taken this thread all over the palce back to my original question...Does anyone know the time frame that Tennant produced their chassis? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Perhaps the SHADOW knows! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
It would be interesting to know what he was trying to protect...
Marco, welcome back. Take a minute once in a while and check in.
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
SO now that we have taken this thread all over the palce back to my original question...Does anyone know the time frame that Tennant produced their chassis? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Perhaps the SHADOW knows! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
It would be interesting to know what he was trying to protect...
Marco, welcome back. Take a minute once in a while and check in.
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
As nobody even attemped to answer your question, Here goes, from memory
Tennant chassis are 1979 into early 80's vintage. They certainly did not use any Abbey stamps or Dies. There could be a lot more said about this subject, just to say that as far as I am concerned They were the first replica monocoques and do not constitute to being original.
Another can of worms perhaps? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="purple"> </font>
Tennant chassis are 1979 into early 80's vintage. They certainly did not use any Abbey stamps or Dies. There could be a lot more said about this subject, just to say that as far as I am concerned They were the first replica monocoques and do not constitute to being original.
Another can of worms perhaps? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="purple"> </font>
JimmyMac
Lifetime Supporter
Shadow, Abbey or Scarlet Pimpernel ?,
Firstly, we all should really congratulate Chris Melia for what seems to be one of the most interesting recent finds in British motoring history - to us on this forum anyway.
In the press, Chris requested the help of anybody out there to help him with the provenance of his aquisition and I am sure since then, that several people have offered more productive and positive information.
If you think you know any one fact, or all of the facts about Chris's build from memory, then should you not find pleasure in helping the guy out instead of festering.
Abbey as to your anonymous worms ? - See a doctor about colonic irrigation.
I am sure that the rest of us wish good luck to Chris Melia's project.
PS If you read "Ford au Mans" by Francois HUREL there is a nice piece on No15(AM-GT2) and No16(AM-GT1) with photos of the cars in their red/gold liveries, then again you are best not to as envy and covetting are most terrible afflictions.
Firstly, we all should really congratulate Chris Melia for what seems to be one of the most interesting recent finds in British motoring history - to us on this forum anyway.
In the press, Chris requested the help of anybody out there to help him with the provenance of his aquisition and I am sure since then, that several people have offered more productive and positive information.
If you think you know any one fact, or all of the facts about Chris's build from memory, then should you not find pleasure in helping the guy out instead of festering.
Abbey as to your anonymous worms ? - See a doctor about colonic irrigation.
I am sure that the rest of us wish good luck to Chris Melia's project.
PS If you read "Ford au Mans" by Francois HUREL there is a nice piece on No15(AM-GT2) and No16(AM-GT1) with photos of the cars in their red/gold liveries, then again you are best not to as envy and covetting are most terrible afflictions.
To The Top!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anybody have the answer? When were the Tennant chassis' produced?
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Anybody have the answer? When were the Tennant chassis' produced?
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
I believe Tennant Chassis were also built in England. AFAIK, they were a subcontractor to Abbey and were licensed for continuation production by Safir. Lee Holman bought the last of the tubs they built. I don't know about FIA, but he has been granted continuation/race status by the vintage racing community.
As to dates they produced them, I simply don't know that bit, but I'd be happy to call Lee and ask him. Lee doesn't bite and anyone of you could call him and ask him questions. I just woulddn't approach him from the position of this replica or that replica is the same as or as good as your car; undoubtedly that would put him on the defensive. I told him exactly what I had and what I was involved with, GT40s.com, and he never seemed to hold that against me. He has always been cordial with me and more than willing to answer questions and share stories with me.
Lynn
As to dates they produced them, I simply don't know that bit, but I'd be happy to call Lee and ask him. Lee doesn't bite and anyone of you could call him and ask him questions. I just woulddn't approach him from the position of this replica or that replica is the same as or as good as your car; undoubtedly that would put him on the defensive. I told him exactly what I had and what I was involved with, GT40s.com, and he never seemed to hold that against me. He has always been cordial with me and more than willing to answer questions and share stories with me.
Lynn
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
OK, my previous post is WRONG according to Lee Holman and I have no doubt that he knows better than I do.
Here is the story according to Lee: Abbey Panels had a large fire, not unlike the one that Jaguar suffered, in the 1965 time frame. FAV and later JWA (Willment) had commitments for further production. Since Abbey was not in a position to supply the tubs, the next best provider was a company located in the same town as FAV, Tennant Panels. So that, once the reserve of Abbey Panels chassis and parts ran out, Tennant Panels produced the remaining parts. Lee says that he doesn't know the exact date at which Tennant's products began to be used, but he suspects it was circa 1966. He stated that the last, 3 or so (not an exact number) cars that were produced were done so with complete Tennant chassis, this despite the fact that Ronnie Spain makes no mention of Tennant (at least, that I can find.)
To underscore the relationship of Abbey and Tennant a look at this paragraph from a description of Bryan Wingfield's recreation of the XJ13 from ClassicCars:
Originally intended as a road car, the recreation features a body-tub (built by Tennant Panels Ltd) mainly constructed of sheet steel, painted with twin-pack polyurethane paint and then skinned in aluminium. In order not to set up an electrolytic reaction between the aluminium and steel, the joints were bonded with aircraft adhesive and copper rivets used. Jaguar having declined to co-operate in the project by granting access to Abbey Panels’ original body buck, the recreation’s aluminium coachwork was constructed by G P Metalcraft using measurements taken from the original car and scale drawings made from photographs supplied by Jaguar historian Paul Skilleter.
Further, Lee states that 12-15 tubs that he has (my recollection and he didn't correct me) were recently produced chassis made with the tooling used "in the day" by Tennant Panels.
As to to the Willment/Safir agreement and who actually owns the moniker GT-40, that is a story for another day; but, suffice it to say that Safir cars were not built with Tennant tubs but were built on much simplified replicas of the originals produced with metal brakes, etc. and not large scale presses as the originals (Abbey or Tennant) were. Ronnie Spain says sort-of the same thing; although, the wording he uses makes it sound as though it is actually better. (?)
Assuming the validity of this account and the obsession that Lee has for making his cars part-for-part interchangable with the originals, I would see no reason why Lee Holman's cars should not or would not be accepted by the FIA, HSR, NVRS, SVRA or any other sanctioning body as continuation cars.
Here is the story according to Lee: Abbey Panels had a large fire, not unlike the one that Jaguar suffered, in the 1965 time frame. FAV and later JWA (Willment) had commitments for further production. Since Abbey was not in a position to supply the tubs, the next best provider was a company located in the same town as FAV, Tennant Panels. So that, once the reserve of Abbey Panels chassis and parts ran out, Tennant Panels produced the remaining parts. Lee says that he doesn't know the exact date at which Tennant's products began to be used, but he suspects it was circa 1966. He stated that the last, 3 or so (not an exact number) cars that were produced were done so with complete Tennant chassis, this despite the fact that Ronnie Spain makes no mention of Tennant (at least, that I can find.)
To underscore the relationship of Abbey and Tennant a look at this paragraph from a description of Bryan Wingfield's recreation of the XJ13 from ClassicCars:
Originally intended as a road car, the recreation features a body-tub (built by Tennant Panels Ltd) mainly constructed of sheet steel, painted with twin-pack polyurethane paint and then skinned in aluminium. In order not to set up an electrolytic reaction between the aluminium and steel, the joints were bonded with aircraft adhesive and copper rivets used. Jaguar having declined to co-operate in the project by granting access to Abbey Panels’ original body buck, the recreation’s aluminium coachwork was constructed by G P Metalcraft using measurements taken from the original car and scale drawings made from photographs supplied by Jaguar historian Paul Skilleter.
Further, Lee states that 12-15 tubs that he has (my recollection and he didn't correct me) were recently produced chassis made with the tooling used "in the day" by Tennant Panels.
As to to the Willment/Safir agreement and who actually owns the moniker GT-40, that is a story for another day; but, suffice it to say that Safir cars were not built with Tennant tubs but were built on much simplified replicas of the originals produced with metal brakes, etc. and not large scale presses as the originals (Abbey or Tennant) were. Ronnie Spain says sort-of the same thing; although, the wording he uses makes it sound as though it is actually better. (?)
Assuming the validity of this account and the obsession that Lee has for making his cars part-for-part interchangable with the originals, I would see no reason why Lee Holman's cars should not or would not be accepted by the FIA, HSR, NVRS, SVRA or any other sanctioning body as continuation cars.
Kieth 1,
Long answer short, no I still don't know when the Tennant chassis were built. I would be surprised if Tennant actually reproduced all the dies after the Abbey fire...seems like a lot of cost for a few chassis sales...
And I have no horse in this race, I am not trying to knock-down anyone's car nor put a spin on another, just GT40 curiostity.
Rick
Long answer short, no I still don't know when the Tennant chassis were built. I would be surprised if Tennant actually reproduced all the dies after the Abbey fire...seems like a lot of cost for a few chassis sales...
And I have no horse in this race, I am not trying to knock-down anyone's car nor put a spin on another, just GT40 curiostity.
Rick
Just a thought in John Horsemans book "Racing in the Rain" (chapter 5, pages 117-118). He states that the last GT40 made in 1967 at Banbury road was P1072. 12 cars were produced in 1968 including MKIII's. The last 7 cars were produced in 1969. He states "that as far as I am concerned, that was the end of the GT40 production. Any car appearing after that were not "real" GT40s as they were produced by other establishments, not in the factory and not by the personnel at 714 Banbury Avenue Slough Trading Estate "(the JWAE/FAV works). To my calculations allowing for 7 MKIII's that would take the total to chassis P1084.
Regards Allan
Regards Allan
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Hi,
As my name is floating on the forum again, i thought i´d try to help out with this one..
Quote; of Mr John S Allen(who we all know)
In he´s smaller paperback from 1991
Chapter named :watch out!, there´s a fake about .
;Nowadays,there are so many non-genuine GT40s about, that some sort of explanation is needed.
We can talk of copies,clones,replicas and so on.
Let us settle on the following term:replica: a car so similiar built that only an expert could tell it from the real thing.
First real impostors appeared in the early 1980s, when separate concerns began building their own GT40s.
In England,Mr Brian Wingfield,(who we also know)who for many a year has run the GT40 owners club, found that a natural progression from badly rusted cars was to make new ones,and his own creations,on chassis built by Tennant(panels)Limited, are genuine replicas.They are correct in almost every detail,and are absolutely superb.In addition to the Wingfield cars,at least one other GT40 has been built on a Tennant chassis,and Tennant chassis parts have been used in the rebuild of original GT40s.End of quote.
Mr Holman has the undoubtful rights for the manufacturing of the MKIIs, no point of arguing about that fact .
So to sum it all up:
Look at the former post of Allan regarding original cars.
And read Horsemans book(he should know, and we all know him)
+ the unmarked tubs and parts for tubs
+ The later completed cars on Abbey Tubs with original parts and numbered
+ the officially certificated build up´s of 1087-1089 on Tennant chassis.
It´s all in Mr Spain´s book i suppose.(wich we also, all know)
Tennant chassis: early 80s or thereabouts and onwards.
Very good replica tubs.
Ended production and sold the remains to Mr Holman.(MkII revealed in 1990)
As mentioned in earlier posts, Mr Wingfield is the "father" of the Tennant chassis.He started it and provided drawings and prints etc..
Safir/MkV GT40s has their own story wich i think has been covered.
(Legally certified as GT40 MkV´s)
I hope this helps
Regards,
Marco
As my name is floating on the forum again, i thought i´d try to help out with this one..
Quote; of Mr John S Allen(who we all know)
In he´s smaller paperback from 1991
Chapter named :watch out!, there´s a fake about .
;Nowadays,there are so many non-genuine GT40s about, that some sort of explanation is needed.
We can talk of copies,clones,replicas and so on.
Let us settle on the following term:replica: a car so similiar built that only an expert could tell it from the real thing.
First real impostors appeared in the early 1980s, when separate concerns began building their own GT40s.
In England,Mr Brian Wingfield,(who we also know)who for many a year has run the GT40 owners club, found that a natural progression from badly rusted cars was to make new ones,and his own creations,on chassis built by Tennant(panels)Limited, are genuine replicas.They are correct in almost every detail,and are absolutely superb.In addition to the Wingfield cars,at least one other GT40 has been built on a Tennant chassis,and Tennant chassis parts have been used in the rebuild of original GT40s.End of quote.
Mr Holman has the undoubtful rights for the manufacturing of the MKIIs, no point of arguing about that fact .
So to sum it all up:
Look at the former post of Allan regarding original cars.
And read Horsemans book(he should know, and we all know him)
+ the unmarked tubs and parts for tubs
+ The later completed cars on Abbey Tubs with original parts and numbered
+ the officially certificated build up´s of 1087-1089 on Tennant chassis.
It´s all in Mr Spain´s book i suppose.(wich we also, all know)
Tennant chassis: early 80s or thereabouts and onwards.
Very good replica tubs.
Ended production and sold the remains to Mr Holman.(MkII revealed in 1990)
As mentioned in earlier posts, Mr Wingfield is the "father" of the Tennant chassis.He started it and provided drawings and prints etc..
Safir/MkV GT40s has their own story wich i think has been covered.
(Legally certified as GT40 MkV´s)
I hope this helps
Regards,
Marco
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