Hi Mark , if you do not feel you should use your old suspension parts that are chromed , and you are going to discard them, dont, I will take them off your hands. I have to tell you though that your posting is great ! You have really helped me in the further building and info on the RF build. I think a large amount of "wind" was taken out of the sails on many of the RF builders when she went belly up to post much on their builds. I think there is only 4 of us current RF builders in the states left, I may have forgotten someone, there is you, Jim D, Peter O, and myself .
Issues with chromed suspension pieces?
- Thread starter Mark Worthington
- Start date
As many probabley has noticed, alloy steel bolts are allways black. This is becouse alloy steel is sensitive to most plating. Plain steel is not. But corrission, is a factor if closed tubing is used. So, in the case of U-profile and mild steel, chorme plating should not be a problem. I jus paint my A-arms as I allway like to cut things up and change geometry or swaybar location or whatever.
Goran Malmberg
Goran Malmberg
Chris Duncan
Supporter
WD40 evaporates within days. If worried about tubing interiors use some spray grease or spray cosmoline. And some anti-seize on the threads.
Has anyone considered aluminum for the straight tube rear links? It's pretty common on some of the oval cars.
Has anyone considered aluminum for the straight tube rear links? It's pretty common on some of the oval cars.
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Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Very interesting discussions concerning a subject I am interested in.
I read everyone's posts more than once, and especially the Engineering article Mark posted. The control arms and rods on most non original GT40s are made from mild steel. Perhaps that was true of the originals too. I think the CAV cars may be an exception because they may have employed stainless steel, or not.
I think I made the turn from extreme concern to nearly no concern with the idea chrome plating of the subject parts. I recently disassembled some, removed the end fittings and examined them. They were thinner than I expected, but since I'm not an Engineer, I suspect that's just a lame observation.
(1) Some percentage of them will fail without chrome plating for a variety of reasons, including extreme usage and original defect, and those events could be fatal too.
(2) The Fastener Engineering & Research Association's report states that the plating process will only cause hydrogen embrittlement of 2 — 3% of the components so treated.
(3) The other key statement they made is that hydrogen embrittlement is only expected to be a risk for higher tensile [plated] fasteners with [Vickers] hardness above 320HV.
(4) Common hardness rating for mild steel is approximately 140, whereas for hardened steel it is approximately 900.
Hardness
(5) What is harder, more durable, and have lasted for over a 100-years plus than the good ole heavy chrome bumpers on the early model cars? What could be more durable under stress than a good ole set of chromed Snap-on tools?
My conclusion is that with the possible exception of the special "R" race version cars, the other cars could be driven hard on the streets and occasionally tracked, and only experience a very slight increase in failures with chrome plating above the stock non-plated ones.
Any additional thoughts, comments, ideas? Robert
I read everyone's posts more than once, and especially the Engineering article Mark posted. The control arms and rods on most non original GT40s are made from mild steel. Perhaps that was true of the originals too. I think the CAV cars may be an exception because they may have employed stainless steel, or not.
I think I made the turn from extreme concern to nearly no concern with the idea chrome plating of the subject parts. I recently disassembled some, removed the end fittings and examined them. They were thinner than I expected, but since I'm not an Engineer, I suspect that's just a lame observation.
(1) Some percentage of them will fail without chrome plating for a variety of reasons, including extreme usage and original defect, and those events could be fatal too.
(2) The Fastener Engineering & Research Association's report states that the plating process will only cause hydrogen embrittlement of 2 — 3% of the components so treated.
(3) The other key statement they made is that hydrogen embrittlement is only expected to be a risk for higher tensile [plated] fasteners with [Vickers] hardness above 320HV.
(4) Common hardness rating for mild steel is approximately 140, whereas for hardened steel it is approximately 900.
Hardness
(5) What is harder, more durable, and have lasted for over a 100-years plus than the good ole heavy chrome bumpers on the early model cars? What could be more durable under stress than a good ole set of chromed Snap-on tools?
My conclusion is that with the possible exception of the special "R" race version cars, the other cars could be driven hard on the streets and occasionally tracked, and only experience a very slight increase in failures with chrome plating above the stock non-plated ones.
Any additional thoughts, comments, ideas? Robert
Hello to every one there
in fact chrome in suspension parts is more dangerous not because chrome surface can migrate to the stellbase steel and make it brittle ( very few cases of breaks for that reason);
The problem is due mostly because of the process used to chrome plate , the first operation before covering with cooper is to do an acid attack to parts so if weldings EVEN well done are just leaking by a small hole acid is going to poluate inernal areas of tubes . the second process is to watch out parts from acid and let them for a while on aneutraliser bath but if acid is on there is no way to neutralize it
If holes are very small chrome sometimes cover them and you cannot notice any damage on parts but acid is inside and start heating thickness tubes day after day .
If some hole resist you can have after some months a red leak coming onto the chrome ( if you are not aware you polish this out et voila !! but damage is there growing)
There In france Chrome plating was forbiden by rule on racing cars after examination of an accident due to a wishbone breakage coming by the reason explained before
For solid hight tensile steel machined parts or bolts and screw is different ;
zingate or chrome process have to be done very carefuly with a specific process in where a step named " vacuum degazing" is used in order not to modify initial structure of mixed components of that steel ( and particularly molybden molecules)
For that reasons it is advisable for those to use the black aspect given by manganese oxydation ( not dangerous at all) with the inconvenient that is not water resistant if not oiled frequently ( Or wd 40 spraying )
Very few suppliers are skilled to do gold or white zingate with this vacuum furnace step and I woud not risk any hubb or pricy part to a knew one i don't "trust"
hope this helps ?
in fact chrome in suspension parts is more dangerous not because chrome surface can migrate to the stellbase steel and make it brittle ( very few cases of breaks for that reason);
The problem is due mostly because of the process used to chrome plate , the first operation before covering with cooper is to do an acid attack to parts so if weldings EVEN well done are just leaking by a small hole acid is going to poluate inernal areas of tubes . the second process is to watch out parts from acid and let them for a while on aneutraliser bath but if acid is on there is no way to neutralize it
If holes are very small chrome sometimes cover them and you cannot notice any damage on parts but acid is inside and start heating thickness tubes day after day .
If some hole resist you can have after some months a red leak coming onto the chrome ( if you are not aware you polish this out et voila !! but damage is there growing)
There In france Chrome plating was forbiden by rule on racing cars after examination of an accident due to a wishbone breakage coming by the reason explained before
For solid hight tensile steel machined parts or bolts and screw is different ;
zingate or chrome process have to be done very carefuly with a specific process in where a step named " vacuum degazing" is used in order not to modify initial structure of mixed components of that steel ( and particularly molybden molecules)
For that reasons it is advisable for those to use the black aspect given by manganese oxydation ( not dangerous at all) with the inconvenient that is not water resistant if not oiled frequently ( Or wd 40 spraying )
Very few suppliers are skilled to do gold or white zingate with this vacuum furnace step and I woud not risk any hubb or pricy part to a knew one i don't "trust"
hope this helps ?
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I had chrome plated suspension pieces on my CAV (no, they're not stainless) and the chrome had started to flake off and there was light surface corrosion in a couple spots. The car is a 2002, so this chrome had been on these pieces almost 10 years. Needless to say, I didn't want any corrosion to progress beyond just cosmetic.
I took the suspension parts to a well known and regarded plating shop. The shop owner asked me what kind of car were they from and how do I use the car (weekend driver). He said "you can get them chromed or nickel plated, but you'll be continually chasing pits and corrosion over time. Get them powder coated." Which is what I did.
I thought it was pretty telling that the owner of a plating shop recommended getting them powder coated instead (a service they do not render). About 1/2 the price of plating.
A year later and all the suspension parts look great and have held up perfectly. I chose a nice grey/silver color with a satin finish. It's a nice muted color and finish, which I think shows great on a vintage sports car.
Highly recommend powder coating for this application. The curing of the powder coat gets the parts up to around 300 degrees I believe but I don't think this will affect the metallurgy in any significant way.
I took the suspension parts to a well known and regarded plating shop. The shop owner asked me what kind of car were they from and how do I use the car (weekend driver). He said "you can get them chromed or nickel plated, but you'll be continually chasing pits and corrosion over time. Get them powder coated." Which is what I did.
I thought it was pretty telling that the owner of a plating shop recommended getting them powder coated instead (a service they do not render). About 1/2 the price of plating.
A year later and all the suspension parts look great and have held up perfectly. I chose a nice grey/silver color with a satin finish. It's a nice muted color and finish, which I think shows great on a vintage sports car.
Highly recommend powder coating for this application. The curing of the powder coat gets the parts up to around 300 degrees I believe but I don't think this will affect the metallurgy in any significant way.
Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Thanks to Jack and Michael too!
Cliff, Thanks
Even more interesting.
I've just discovered PowdaChrome. Scroll down mid page to see the PowdaChrome samples.
What do you think of this?
Powder Coating System
Thanks everyone. :thumbsup:
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