KVA Type C Mk1 Build Log 943motorsport.

[Brett James-McCall]

Robin,
I personally would use a second tube rather than the box section. After all, that is why they are not allowed to make 917s anymore...

As for the DC unit. I am installing one in the GTD. If you look at my build log I have put a couple of photos up. Some install it inthe front, but I opted to have it in the rear and in line with the water pump inlet; I've used Gates hose restrtrictors on the tube sizing. Also, I have no mech pump at all, Brian Magee freeze plugges the unit after I cut the impellor out.

I can take more pics if you want.

Brett

 

[Robin Little]

decision made. Copper for the main pipes through the middle of the box and the water pump up the front. Just need to find a length of copper pipe the appropriate size. 35mm I think

Was thinking of using an olive on the copper pipe to stop the silicon or rubber pipes comming off. Plan to use a compression fitting with an olive the slide the nut off and leave the olive compressed onto the pipe.

Does that sound like a reasonable idea??

 

[Brett James-McCall]

I need to check, but I think I have some 35mm ally tibe lying in my shed somewhere

 

[Graham T]

What are peoples thoughts on the location of an electric water pump.
I am about to order the 115l/m Davies Craig pump and controller.
I have room at both the front and rear?
There is also 40mm box section welded through the tunnel of the car to allow the pipes through. At the moment I have a length of copper pipe through them which just fits inside the box, dont know if this is the best way to do it as thinking about aluminium box which just fits inside the steel box , I would have to fabricate square to round adaptors to get back to the appropriate pipe size.
Looking for some thoughts??

Robin,

Please do not run alloy piping through steel chassis tubes unless you can completely insulate them from one another. Ruling aside the corrosion issues, if you ever intended to race the car you would not get past the scrutineers as fluids must not run through chassis tubes, whether in seperate pipes or not.
Brett says this is why they are not allowed to build 917s anymore.Thats not true, as teams started using seperate hosing for the oil thus by-passing the chassis. You can make as many 917s as you want, just as with any other vehicle, but don,t run any fluid through chassis if you want to race.
If you do use copper pipe, choose it carefully and have your beading carefully rolled on the ends. Olives are not the answer.

Graham.

 

[Robin Little]

I am a bit confused as to the concern with using olives as a device to stop a rubber or silicon hose blowing/sliding off.
I presume the only purpose of a raised section just before the end of the pipe is to secure the pipe? If so then a properly compressed olive from copper would serve the same purpose and would keep a smooth surface on the internals of the pipe?.

Ii understand your concerns with running a pipe through a section of the chassis, I presume they are concerned that in a crash the chassis could/will deform and damage the pipe.

Anybody any experience of this?

 

[Julian]

I was thinking about welding a square to round over them and doing the same but was a bit concerened about using the steel with water for corrosion. Have you had any concern with corrosion on them?

My KVA was built in '93 and I have no issues with corrosion, the chassis is thick wall square tubing down through the center and as long as you keep antifreeze or an alternative corrosion inhibitor in the system I see no reason to worry. Now making it compliant for racing is another matter.... if I was to use any secondary tubing it would be stainless.

Also, I have no mech pump at all, Brian Magee freeze plugges the unit after I cut the impellor out.

That's what I did too, removed the impeller and the shaft of the water pump and welded over the end to create a plenum.

 

[Robin Little]

Off topic but I am glad I have my Range Rover today!!!

 

[Robin Little]

What spec of engine do I build???

I am at the stage where I need to start building an engine for the car, but unsure to what spec.

Currently I have a brandnew (old 1985) crate Marine 302 engine which I have just stripped down to start the new build.

I am looking for an enigne which is driveable on the road and also suitable for the odd track day.

I currently have the E5AE heads with what I presume is a Marine cam
(M)772 if that means anything. with a holley Marine carb.

Does anybody have ideas for a suitable spec?

Eg head type, compression ratio, cam type and carb size and type??

Combstion chamber volume on the E5AE heads measures about 70cc so compression ratio will be quite low.

Pistons are flat top with 4 valve recessed cut into them.

Thanks in anticipation of your help

 

[Mike Pass]

Alloy heads give a lot more power(up to 90bhp more) and lose 44lbs weight. Edelbrock performer rpm are good value. The Edelbrock RPM air gap inlet manifold is good and will fit in a gt40 under the rear window. With a marine engine the balance may be 50oz which is a lot if you aim to rev the engine. If you can stretch to a stroker kit you can do it with neutral balance and will be much much smoother. A light steel flywheel will make it much more zippy. Use a road cam and a standard pressure oil pump. If you want to do trackdays then get good big silencers to keep the noise down. A 600 - 650cfm holley will be good. Forged pistons (eg JE) for trackday abuse.
A 302ci with this spec will give about 340bhp 340ftlbs torque. A 347ci with this spec wil give 430bhp and 430ftlbs torque - very quick!
Cheers
Mike

 

[Robin Little]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I should be looking for some alloy heads then. I also currently have a torker inlet manifold not too sure what model but will check. with regards to the crank I am not too sure what balance weight I require but have the casting number from the crank so will do a search of the interweb. With regards to a stroker kit , I will probably just stick with the standard stroke for now, but will require a flywheel to fit inside the renault box.
On the carb front is it better to go for the vacuum secondary or the double pumper for street driveablity?

Is there anybody on the site that is interested in the standard heads, Holley Marine Carb and Cam? all the items are new and have never been used.

Thanks

 

[Mike Pass]

The Torker is a single plane manifold and not as good as the Performer RPM (and especially air gap). It is supposed to be better at higher rpm but the Performer (dual plane) is much better at lower rpm and about the same higher up. If you have the original flywheel you can get a steel one match balanced to suit your motor. You can get a steel flywheel from Mick Sollis at Southern GT. He also does an AP clutch that will take a lot of power (actually a Ferrari 355 item). I use this set up in my car. He can also supply the driven plate to suit your gearbox. I also use a Renault 21 Turbo box. For street driveability there is not much between the double pumper and the vac secondary. The double pumper reacts quicker because you choose the point at which the secondaries open. Also because it has two metering blocks you can tune it more easily. I use a 650cfm double pumper. Use ARP bolts for everything especially the big end bolts. Comp Cams do some good road based cams.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Robin Little]

Well its been a while but after a few set backs I am finally getting back into the workshop. Engine is nearly built. Decided to go for a Comp Cams performer for the time being. Just have to sort out the push rods are took the combusion chambers down to 62 cc so have to get shorter rods sorted out to keep the rockers correct.

Would it be wrong to say that I go for Pushrods that are shorter than the originals by the amount I have skimmed off the head? Or Should I check them all individually?

Gearbox has been stripped and inspected and rebuild , all fine.

Now time for the flywheel which I still need to track down. Anybody got a 50 Oz v6 size flywheel for sale? Or info on who is best to purchase from

Thanks

 

[Mike Pass]

Mick Sollis does steel flywheels. However you need to decide what you are going to do with balance and clutch first. Mick usually uses the AP clutch setup which will take the torque from a strong 302/347. Use a beefed up clutch release bearing and carrier - Mick Sollis or Chris Cole and the standard Renault clutch fork.
Your flywheel will need the tapped holes for your clutch cover and will need to be balanced all together with crank rods pistons and harmonic balancer. There are various balances. The usual standard is to balance using an external balance with the out of balance crank assembly being brought into overall balance using an out of balance flywheel and harmonic damper. Best of all is to do it the modern way and do it with a neutral/internal balance where the internal assembly is fully balanced and the flywheel and damper have no balance weights. Much smoother and happier when revved.
Whichever way you do get it properly balanced by someone who is competent.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Robin Little]

Well it has been a long time since my last post but have got a lot done since then. Photos to follow.

Now for the questions.

Does anybody have a part number or a new renault un1 slave cylinder that they dont require and would like to part with?

Flywheel and clutch now all together and in the process of fitting the gearbox.

Thanks again to Mick from Southern GT for sourcing and supplying a suitable clutch and flywheel. Good guy to deal with and would recommend for your build parts.

 

[Mike Pass]

Renault slave cylinders are very hard to get hold of. Try Chris Cole as he may have the odd one but he usually asks for an exchange item for the sleeved down ones so even he may not have any. I have got them from people breaking Renault 21s in the past. Get a beefed up release bearing and metal carrier from Chris Cole as the standard item is a bit crappy.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Stephen Tonks]

Hi
I bought a renault clutch slave cylinder from my local motor factors when I was last in the UK. They are still widely available. Paid about £30.00 for it. They seem to have been fitted to a wide range of renault gearboxes. Had to go through the usual "Can I have the car registration, and what's if off ?" crap, but once you explain what car its off, then I had no problem getting one. It seems to be the same as fitted to various renualt 25's. They also seem to be available on ebay.
I did go to a lotus dealer, as the espirit I believe used a very similar gearbox. However, their slave cylinder is totally different.
Regards
Stephen

 

[Robin Little]

First fit of the engine. Still trying to puzzle out where things will go but getting there!!

 

[Robin Little]

Try again!

 

[Robin Little]

well fuel tanks made and a fair bit progress. Not too bad for my first real attempt at tig welding.

Pressure tested to 4 psi. Whats the thoughts on this pressure is it high enough?

 

[Phil]

Robin:
Nice bit of fab work on the tanks. I test to 4 or 5 psi, and usually that does a fair amount of bulging on the larger spans of the tank while under pressure. My feeling is if it is tight at that pressure you have no problems. Most leaks occur initially at suck holes, corners, start and stop points, and once thats all fixed most tanks last a long time if made well and mounted correctly.
Cheers
Phil