Maybe he has a point.

[Al Wohlstrom]

Some numbers:

*Total number of burglaries in 2012- 2,103,787

*This is the number that the FBI used to arrive at the one burglary every 15 seconds statistic.

*Of those, 1,111,849 were by FORCED ENTRY- That works out to be one forced entry every 28 seconds.

Now, remember that this is burglaries of ALL structures.

But you want to know what happened in personal HOMES!

*Of the total number of burglaries, 66% occurred in a residence.

*The total number of residential burglaries was 1,567,058.

*That is one home burglarized every 20 seconds!

Taken from FBI Statistics, Patriot Crime Defense, The Door Sentinel | Patriot Crime Defense

Police response time average in the US is 10+ minutes
In 10 minutes you can kiss your butt goodbye.

From the sound of things Oliver, I wouldn't want to see a gun in your hands. You need to practice accessing, loading, and handling the gun. You don't shoot things you are not sure of, new thing called the flashlight. You need a plan, and practice that plan.
Probably 99.9% of the multiple murders are committed by mentally ill people. So, keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill? What a concept!

 

[Olivier S]

Some numbers:

*That is one home burglarized every 20 seconds!

Ok, so what's your point? That you live in a world where you have a fairly good chance to have your house burglarized?

What exactly means "forced entry"? I searched and found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forcible_entry

Is that when someone break/destroy your door to enter?

Police response time average in the US is 10+ minutes
In 10 minutes you can kiss your butt goodbye.

Well, you're one always whining about your govt.... Don't know exactly how it works in the US, but I guess that policemen are paid by some local/state tax? Am I Right? Those things cost... just as the ER and firefighters.
Pay more taxes, and then make whatever politician in charge of the Police budget to hire peoples, for law enforcement.

From the sound of things Oliver, I wouldn't want to see a gun in your hands. You need to practice accessing, loading, and handling the gun.

Here in France, and I think it's pretty much the same all over EU, owning a gun isn't pretty easy. unless you're a hunter, but then you can access Hunting rifles (OK, if it's enough to kill a wild pig, it should be enough for a burglar...) Well, having said that, this is not in our culture to own and play with guns. BUT, I happen to be a weirdo french. I practiced "sport shooting" for a couple of years. Air compressed pistols, 22LR, 9mm, and in a few occasions things like 45 ACP, 44mag handguns. So, I believe that I KNOW how to use a gun. That does NOT mean that I am a qualified person to react with a gun in a crisis situation like someone not invited into the house late at night... And, I do not believe (my own opinion OK?) that the average Joe is a good candidate for this kind of stuff...

You don't shoot things you are not sure of, new thing called the flashlight.

-"What the f are you doing in my house???

- Sorry to disturb you sir, but I am a burglar.

- Put your hands up so i can see if you have a gun!!

- Ok Sir, I DO have a gun, watch

- SO i can shoot your arse! BOOM."

You need a plan, and practice that plan.

You need a LIFE, and practice that life! (should also try to have some sex from time to time, you'll see it's something very enjoyable, and in the mean time it is pretty much stress relieving). :laugh:

Sorry, not intended to be rude... You probably consider me, from what I say, that I am some sort of pussy commie. You're maybe right. But it is not the kind of life I want, nor the kind of mentality I'd feel comfortable living with. Preparing for the bad stuff, always is not what I call a life.

of course, I respect you, and your point of view. I won't change you in any kind of way. If I manage to have yourself asking a few questions about another point of view, then we are both winners. Since I also ask myself questions about it.

Actually, I do love guns. Pretty nice technical objects, and it's plain fun to shoot at empty cans... but I also think there is something "morbide" about it. And for the reasons explained in my previous post (plus the fact that it is almost impossible by our laws) I decide to not have one at home.

Probably 99.9% of the multiple murders are committed by mentally ill people. So, keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill? What a concept!

Last one for me, then I'm going back into my soap box, leaving this endless debate: You talk about multiples murders. And what about the "single murders". Seems that you also have plenty of them in your , and I think it, great country.

Cheers Olivier.

 

[Keith]

Comparison with gun might be a bit "borderline" no?






What a comparison again! Your own private arsenal, with the one carried by soldiers, enroled into a country's army, and engaged into a declared war??? WTF?
I, as a french, know how much we owe the Yanks for landing in Normandie, and kicking german asses paying an heavy tribute doing so... And I do not discuss that, but, hey, where is the point between WWII and your right to bear guns?






Well, for this one, I am mitigated, but, please, follow me. I live in a isolated area. I sometimes would feel more comfortable if I had a shotgun or something like this... If I take exactly YOUR example, waking up at 3AM, with my head still stuck deep into the darkest part of my anatomy, how many time would I have to react.
I strongly believe it's a matter of seconds rather than a matter of minutes.. So what? I should go to my safe, remember the code, take the fuckin' gun out of it, spill the rounds on the floor while trying to catch them, load it, take my balls in hands, run into the house, in the dark, Aim and probably shoot everything on sight since I would shit my pants that the other guys are armed as well?
Impossible, at least, I think so. Then that would mean, keeping a loaded gun right on hand close to my bed? NO WAY! I have a 5yrs old at home, and even if she is not really allowed to enter my bedroom, well... you kow the kids? I will never ever take the risk to do so. And please, do not tell me "hang it on the wall so it is out of reach".... My daoughter can be very imaginative sometimes.

Another example, I am awaken at 3 by stange noises which arn't supposed to be, someone into the house.... Take my gun, shit my pants, and shoot....my 16yrs old daughter who went out without my permission, coming back home completely drunk with a boyfriend? Last and only option in this case would be to shoot myself right now.

Maybe my examples seem not realistic to you. Maybe you have a far better self control than I have, or way more courageous or way more trained than I am... But to me they sound pretty real. I am happy that my father didn't have a gun at home. He would have killed me several times when I was a stupid teen, and enjoyed partying coming back home late at night, sometimes pretty drunk.

A last thing. My comprehension of your 4th amendment is that, pTexas or another state drawn some fear into some of the population???

Isn't that a bit ridiculous? Do you REALLY think that this president you hate so much WOULD ACTUALLY invade a state of its own country?

Don't say that you believe this, but some people seems to. And they would probably profit more from a little bit of "modernity" in their minds, than from the right to have a dozen "semi auto-easy to mod" assault riffles...

But, hey, who Am I?

Olivier.

Well said Olivier.....

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

So, I guess it boils down to, take care of your own country (I do have plenty of opinions about the French that I keep to myself) and we will take care of ours.

 

[Olivier S]

(I do have plenty of opinions about the French that I keep to myself)

No please, share them with me/us. I am not too thin skinned, and I may share some views with you!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

What part of "I keep to myself" didn't you understand?

 

[Olivier S]

(I do have plenty of opinions about the French that I keep to myself)

No please, share them with me/us. I am not too thin skinned, and I may share some views with you!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Must be a language gap.

 

[Olivier S]

I am just a bit computer challenged sometimes...

And as for the "which part ...", well, when there is something i do not want to have displayed on a public forum, I just do not say anything about it. Even a small allusion.

Sounded like you had a lot of very positive things to say about France/French, and was curious to hear about it.

Sorry if my english is a bit wrong.

 

[Larry L.]

'Touch a nerve, did I?

Comparison with gun might be a bit "borderline" no?

No, it isn't. THE POINT behind what I said being: one has guns and fire extinguishers in case either may be needed 'down the road'. Possessing them does not indicate one actually expects they'll be needed 'down the road'...just a recognition of the possibility they could/might be. They're both precautionary measures...and I'd say they're both prudent ones.


What a comparison again! Your own private arsenal, with the one carried by soldiers, enroled into a country's army, and engaged into a declared war??? WTF?

Simple. Our Founders put the R-I-G-H-T to keep and bear into the constitution specifically so that 'the people' could take up arms against a tyrannical govt. whether it be foreign or domestic. Hence the words, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." Google the Federalist Papers and see for yourself.

The "arms" in our "private arsenals" 'back in the day' actually were the arms used in the War for Independence.

But, in any event, the comparison IS appropriate given the context in which I used it. (E.g.: I was addressing a Brit's assertion that, today, Europeans look down on America/Americans because we own so many guns, etc. I made the counterpoint that wasn't their view in the early '40s.)


Well, for this one, I am mitigated, but, please, follow me. I live in a isolated area (All the MORE reason to have a gun). I sometimes would feel more comfortable if I had a shotgun or something like this... If I take exactly YOUR example, waking up at 3AM, with my head still stuck deep into the darkest part of my anatomy, how many time would I have to react.
I strongly believe it's a matter of seconds rather than a matter of minutes.. So what? I should go to my safe, remember the code, take the fuckin' gun out of it, spill the rounds on the floor while trying to catch them, load it, take my balls in hands, run into the house, in the dark, Aim and probably shoot everything on sight since I would shit my pants that the other guys are armed as well?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah - Here's the problem with your scenario! First of all, there's NOTHING - NOTHING - more useless than an unloaded gun - PERIOD...unless it's an unloaded gun locked in a safe...with its ammo locked in ANOTHER safe...in some OTHER room...on some OTHER floor of one's house!!! Good grief, man...

To be u-s-e-f-u-l-l in any self-defense situation either at home or out in public, a gun has to be loaded and ready to fire - period. Proof? Ask your local "cops" if THEIR guns are loaded or not (assuming French police ARE armed...for years British "Bobbies" we not). In a self-defense situation, one will seldom (if ever) have time to mess around LOADING his weapon...let alone get it out of a safe, blah, blah, blah. Seconds count.

You may as well sell your gun(s) for all the good they'll do you locked away. I'm serious. They really are totally useless to you in a self-defense situation given what you've mentioned. (And, no offence, but, I get the impression you're afraid of guns anyway. If that be the case, you definitely ought to get rid of them. They'll do you no good at all. 'May as well not have 'em.)


Then that would mean, keeping a loaded gun right on hand close to my bed? NO WAY! I have a 5yrs old at home, and even if she is not really allowed to enter my bedroom, well... you kow the kids? I will never ever take the risk to do so....(etc.)

Do your kids ride in cars? 'Planes? 'Go swimming? 'Go boating? 'Ride bikes or motorcycles on the street (or anywhere else)? Does your 16-year-old go out on dates?

'See my point? There are risks inherent in everything one does. E.g.:Far more kids are killed in car wrecks every year than die from 'in-home' gun accidents. (I don't know the stats in gang neighborhoods. That's a whooooooole different world...)

Maybe you have a far better self control than I have, or way more courageous or way more trained than I am...

I have no idea, sir. But, I think it's probably safe to conclude it's likely I'm faaaaaaar more unwilling to leave my or my family's fate solely up to some dirtbag(s) due to concerns about 'gun safety'.


A last thing. My comprehension of your 4th (I know you meant "2nd") amendment is that, pTexas or another state drawn some fear into some of the population???

Isn't that a bit ridiculous? Do you REALLY think that this president you hate so much WOULD ACTUALLY invade a state of its own country? (etc.)

I haven't a clue as to what you may be referring here, sir.


Don't say that you believe this, but some people seems to. And they would probably profit more from a little bit of "modernity" in their minds, than from the right to have a dozen "semi auto-easy to mod" assault riffles...

'Matters not how may weapons one might own...he can only fire one (maybe two) at a time.


But, hey, who Am I? Just a stupid coward french...

Unless you're making an admission, I have my doubts about that...

:chug:

(Edit) Here's exactly the kind of real world incident a gun can STOP...even if the person using the gun is 85-years-old. What's your guess as to what would have happened if the homeowner HADN'T been armed??? Do you suppose HIS gun was locked up - unloaded - in a safe somewhere?! Shurrrrrr it was...:

Elderly hero shoots home intruder in the head| Latest News Videos | Fox News

 

[Olivier S]

Lary,

THanks for your answer.

Well, I wont wear the sun till the end of times battleling about it. Just FYI here is a link about the texas crap I talked about earlier:
Texas Residents Raise Conspiracy Fears as Jade Helm Exercise Nears | Military.com

I wont take on Jim Craik, even if I speak relativelly well your language, I'll run quickly out of words. Maybe not arguments, since, I sincerelly believe that your justifications are IMHO a bit weak.

Just for example, about the "there are risks in everything you do". You'll probably admit that the frequency a kid is sitting on a car is way more important than the one your kid plays with your loaded gun? I mean the death to frequency ratio SHOULD be a valid way to compare...

Remembers this vid of a Mexican party where a kid grabs his father"s gun and shoot him.

And, YES. I have no shame to admit that I do not feel very comfortable with something with such power of destruction. I learned a long time ago, to respect, and fear a loaded gun, and not messing with it. Maybe you'll also admit that it is a bit more dangerous than a hammer, or a fork?


All that crap doesn't mean that I think you're an underman or whatever you call it in the states. as for your last sentence, I really am unable to translate it clearly for myself. I just suspect it's meaning isn't very pleasant... OK, you're allowed to think whatever you want about me, and my country.


If you ever happen to come by, please, do not miss to contact me. I'd be glad to offer you a beer or a glass of wine, and have a live chat absolutelly not about all that crap, but maybe about cars ? Who knows? I may succeed in convincing you that it's funnier to drive a low torque, hi revin engine instead of a good ole V8? (Have some serious doubts as well! :thumbsup:

 

[Larry L.]

Olivier:

...since, I sincerelly believe that your justifications are IMHO a bit weak.

You certainly have the right to your opinion, sir.


Just for example, about the "there are risks in everything you do". You'll probably admit that the frequency a kid is sitting on a car is way more important than the one your kid plays with your loaded gun? I mean the death to frequency ratio SHOULD be a valid way to compare...

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics for 2012, there were 254,639,386 registered vehicles in the U.S.

According to "best estimates", there are 300 to 310 million guns in the U.S.

So, go ahead..."compare".


And, YES. I have no shame to admit that I do not feel very comfortable with something with such power of destruction. I learned a long time ago, to respect, and fear a loaded gun, and not messing with it.

Agreed. 'No shame in it.


Maybe you'll also admit that it is a bit more dangerous than a hammer, or a fork?

Hammers, forks, knives, scissors, lug wrenches, a length of steel pipe and a million other things can kill someone just as dead as a gun. Ditto falling down a flight of stairs or being thrown off of a roof. There is no difference whatsoever in the DEGREE of dead achieved via any of those means either...


...as for your last sentence, I really am unable to translate it clearly for myself. I just suspect it's meaning isn't very pleasant... OK, you're allowed to think whatever you want about me, and my country.

NO OFFENCE WAS MEANT!!!!!!!!!!! (Either to YOU personally, or to your homeland.)
I was afraid you might not translate that sentence accurately...so, allow me to CLEAR THAT UP here and now! (Ask anyone here for whom English is their FIRST LANGUAGE to verify this for you.)
What I said/meant was I DO NOT BELIEVE you are "Just a stupid coward french..."...'that's what "have my doubts" meant in that instance.
I should have made that a darned sight more plain...'sorry.
'Apologies for my failure to be crystal clear...:embarassed:


...I may succeed in convincing you that it's funnier to drive a low torque, hi revin engine instead of a good ole V8? :thumbsup:

No - you WON'T! Not EVER! Not even if you can PROVE it to me! :laugh:

Change that "beer or glass of wine" into a Bacardi 151 and Coke and you have yourself a DEAL, my friend! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[/QUOTE]

And, by-the-way...your ability to communicate in ENGLISH is a darned sight better than my ability to communicate in FRENCH...the latter meaning/being not at all.

I have no problem whatsoever understanding you, sir. I doubt anyone else around here does either...

 

[Keith]

Ah, the entente cordiale, don't you just love it? :heart::heart::heart:

 

[Larry L.]

Oh, stick it in your ear, Colonel...

 

[Keith]

My ear? Merde! What should I stick in my ear mon ami? :stunned:

 

[Larry L.]

Figure it out for yourself... :evil:

 

[Marcus]

Ah, the entente cordiale, don't you just love it? :heart::heart::heart:

Gents,

why don´t you just settle your little row over some booze :drunk: and agreeing altogether to jointly hate the Germans?

 

[Keith]

Just at that moment, a French poilu appeared with a bayonet :stunned:

 

[Keith]

Anyway, further to the ubiquitous and circular gun discussion, it could be worse!

Should flamethrowers be sold in the US? - BBC News

Of course, it is being sold for home protection.... :stunned: :laugh:

And another weapon of mass destruction is responsible for injuries during military training!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34162336

 

[Robert May Eng.]

Anyway, further to the ubiquitous and circular gun discussion, it could be worse!

Should flamethrowers be sold in the US? - BBC News

Of course, it is being sold for home protection.... :stunned: :laugh:

And four hundred already ordered, it will probably become a must have fashion accessory for Mericuns :furious:


bob