Osama Bin Ladin
- Thread starter Tom P
- Start date
You're gullible enough to believe Obama.
Don't bother replying, my New Year resolution is to never waste time with you again.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
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[QUOTE][/QUOTE]First, I want to commend you for reading about history, please keep it up, that puts you miles ahead of most in America.
Tom, you keep at it and over time you will discover that there are slightly and not so slightly different versions of most historic events.
Ones written at the time of the event tend to be the least accurate. Over time the stories are changed as more facts come out..............and of course some agenda driven versions come out along the way.
Then as the life's of those involved near the end, "final versions" come out and they tend to be the most accurate, as most involved have told their stories and most data is available.
Today, large well researched books about events of WW2, are comming out, using all available data and stories from both sides. They are much, much more accurate, believable and often change long held views of what went on.
Keep at it Tom, but please keep an open mind, if something seems too good to be true, seems to slant everything one way, it probably is not an accurate depiction of what went on.
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Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Interesting thread. I did some checking on the author, he last was a Seal in 1989 by the way.
Also, something confused me. The criticism is that by announcing the results of the raid "too early" the intelligence gathered during the raid became useless because other members of Al Quaida went into hiding? Huh?
Do we seriously think that the minute the US choppers left that compound, that word had gotten out (either via the Pakistanis or any one else in that neighborhood) about this? And if we had kept quiet about this, that somehow Al Qaida would not have known their leader was dead?? That's just silly.
Also, something confused me. The criticism is that by announcing the results of the raid "too early" the intelligence gathered during the raid became useless because other members of Al Quaida went into hiding? Huh?
Do we seriously think that the minute the US choppers left that compound, that word had gotten out (either via the Pakistanis or any one else in that neighborhood) about this? And if we had kept quiet about this, that somehow Al Qaida would not have known their leader was dead?? That's just silly.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Sigh.............:lipsrsealed:
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Rich, I think that line is from the movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"
Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne.......
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Code:
True,
Your right, believing the government can be problematic......
But as far as this book goes, I think the government has the high ground.
Among other problems with this book, the author says that Sadam Huesain had all sorts of WMD's and that he gave some to Bin Laden.
He goes on to say that the only reason we do not know about this is because evil politicions and devious news folks kept it from us.l
I have many problems with this line of thinking, how about you?
PS, I always though it was our Ausi friends who were the Country of "sheep"
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Jim,
As a red blooded American i love to complain about our Goverment. Time and again we empower evel men and goverments for our short term gain when a longer view would not put us in so many of these situations. On the other hand, as a former member of a Special Forces team i can see the need to sometimes operate outside normal rules of combat and political channels. Unfortunately our country has a history of doing some of these things not for the good of our country or the world but for political gain. The true number of succesful operations engaged for good will always be unknown, the number of our soldiers lost uncounted, and the approval of the people unheard. Every member of such teams knows and accepts this. Every time i hear of a special ops event i have to ask myself... who is benifiting by it being public, how is it helpful and who is being hurt by knowing. Love your country.... distrust your goverment... vote not your party but for who is best for the position... pray. And last... remember... history is written by the winers. We will never know the truth. But then who doesn't like a good work of fiction.
As a red blooded American i love to complain about our Goverment. Time and again we empower evel men and goverments for our short term gain when a longer view would not put us in so many of these situations. On the other hand, as a former member of a Special Forces team i can see the need to sometimes operate outside normal rules of combat and political channels. Unfortunately our country has a history of doing some of these things not for the good of our country or the world but for political gain. The true number of succesful operations engaged for good will always be unknown, the number of our soldiers lost uncounted, and the approval of the people unheard. Every member of such teams knows and accepts this. Every time i hear of a special ops event i have to ask myself... who is benifiting by it being public, how is it helpful and who is being hurt by knowing. Love your country.... distrust your goverment... vote not your party but for who is best for the position... pray. And last... remember... history is written by the winers. We will never know the truth. But then who doesn't like a good work of fiction.
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Pat
Supporter
I was an Army Inspector General for a two star command in "Gulf War 1" and I assure you the threat of Iraqi chemical weapons is/was very real. We know he had them as he gassed the Iranians and Kurds (his own people) with them committing mass murder. The horror is that those weapons have never fully been accounted for.
After the first Gulf War, the United Nations had established its Special Commission (UNSCOM) had the task of destroying, removing, or rendering harmless "all chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."
By the time UNSCOM left Iraq in December 1998, it had overseen the destruction or incapacitation of more than 88,000 filled or unfilled chemical munitions, over 600 tons of weaponized or bulk chemical agents, some 4,000 tons of precursor chemicals, some 980 pieces of key production equipment, and some 300 pieces of analytical equipment. (My unit had the unpleasant task of moving tons of it.) Even after these efforts, there remained serious uncertainties regarding Iraq's remaining holdings of chemical weapons, their precursors, and munitions. There is some credible speculation that they went to Syria with Russian help but that has never been established. I have seen nothing reasonable to lead me to think they went to Bin Laden. I also believe that if Bin Laden had chemical weapons, he would have had little compunction to have already used them. However, it is entirely plausible that one of the reasons we seem to be taking a hands off approach to the current massacres and repression in Syria is that they have such weapons.
As for the Bin Laden raid, it is so classified; I would be highly suspect of anyone who claims to have the “real story”. We won’t know the details of that raid for years. What I have seen published are theorized accounts based on public facts and are nothing more than educated guesses. Personally, I’d wait for Tom Clancy to write a fictionalized account and I’d suspect that would be closer to the truth than anything you’re reading today.
After the first Gulf War, the United Nations had established its Special Commission (UNSCOM) had the task of destroying, removing, or rendering harmless "all chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."
By the time UNSCOM left Iraq in December 1998, it had overseen the destruction or incapacitation of more than 88,000 filled or unfilled chemical munitions, over 600 tons of weaponized or bulk chemical agents, some 4,000 tons of precursor chemicals, some 980 pieces of key production equipment, and some 300 pieces of analytical equipment. (My unit had the unpleasant task of moving tons of it.) Even after these efforts, there remained serious uncertainties regarding Iraq's remaining holdings of chemical weapons, their precursors, and munitions. There is some credible speculation that they went to Syria with Russian help but that has never been established. I have seen nothing reasonable to lead me to think they went to Bin Laden. I also believe that if Bin Laden had chemical weapons, he would have had little compunction to have already used them. However, it is entirely plausible that one of the reasons we seem to be taking a hands off approach to the current massacres and repression in Syria is that they have such weapons.
As for the Bin Laden raid, it is so classified; I would be highly suspect of anyone who claims to have the “real story”. We won’t know the details of that raid for years. What I have seen published are theorized accounts based on public facts and are nothing more than educated guesses. Personally, I’d wait for Tom Clancy to write a fictionalized account and I’d suspect that would be closer to the truth than anything you’re reading today.
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Veek, just go by Clancey's book, not the movie version, or they'll turn the enemy into a German Neo Nazi organization like they did in "The Sum Of All Fears!" LOL.
Charlie Farley
Supporter
Its all a fabrication, i've been renting a room to Laden for a couple of years.
Pat
Supporter
I don't think so. Actually the most credible theory I've seen is that after living with 3 wives in one compound and never leaving the house for 5 years - Osama Bin Ladin called the US Navy Seals himself!
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Some 7/11 somewhere has a vacancy at the counter for a guy to make Slurpees...
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