Starter Motor Post Mortem

[Dan Carter]

I was posting on the Graz Starter post in the other area, but felt this merits its own special post. Many have expressed issues with the Bosch starter for the Graz, and like many, I have checked the aftermarket for a better starter that would fit the Graz......no one makes one.

Last Sunday I was on the way home and the car started making a funny noise on start up. I wasn't sure what it was as the noise was unlike anything I had heard before. About a mile from startup the engine stopped and there was smoke.

Once home and back in the shop, I discovered the smell was coming from the starter. Below are pics of what I found once I opened it up: Yes that is literally the guts just spilled out. I do not recall the source of the Bosch unit, nor do I know if it was rebuilt or remanufactured. I don't even have a post mortem on this, but I have ordered a new starter from Remy, new bigger battery wires and even a new starter button.

Moral of this story.......... be aware I guess.

 

[Brian Kissel]

I have found that bad things usually happen when you let the smoke out of something .

Regards Brian

 

[Neil]

Dan, when you receive your new Bosch starter, carefully compare it with your old one. There are lots of counterfeit parts out there.

 

[Dan Carter]

I received the new starter today from REMY remanufacturing and I called them to confirm its their rebuild. So thinks for the heads up Neil.

The part number I have is 02Z911023L. The confusion I now have is the application. Apparently it fits the Audi R8 2008-2015 4.2 and 5.2, the Lambo Galardo, and the VW Teguan (ranges from 4 to 8 cylinder application). I found this unit has a "D" connector but the 2015 unit that blew up has a square connector to the solenoid (I kept the part number). Once the new unit arrived today, I saw the connector is now a "D" shape and having called several starter suppliers, no one seems to have this "D" connector or pigtail (1K0-973-751 ???). I saw one on E-bay that looks like the real deal (its ordered) and I will know once it gets here.

For those who have a record or haven't installed, do you mind sharing the configuration of the solenoid plug in? If its the "D" where did you get you pigtail?

Thanks

 

[Joel K]

Hi Dan,

Here is a pic of the unit and the plug. I have not tracked down a connector for it yet.

 

[Dan Carter]

Joel - I just ordered the plug that fits yours. I won’t be able to use it. Interested.

I have to look up your part number. It appears the 17755N unit is used on the VW 1.9 Diesel. I looks exactly the same as the unit I have. I wonder if the internals differ for differing applications despite an outwardly appearance being the same. It would be nice to find out which ones have the most guts.

Thanks

 

[Joel K]

Joel - I just ordered the plug that fits yours. I won’t be able to use it. Interested.

I have to look up your part number. It appears the 17755N unit is used on the VW 1.9 Diesel. I looks exactly the same as the unit I have. I wonder if the internals differ for differing applications despite an outwardly appearance being the same. It would be nice to find out which ones have the most guts.

Thanks

Dan, does it have the pin and the rubber boot? The one I saw on eBay has all three parts.

 

[Kyle]

Where are you ordering from? Rockauto has never failed me yet. eBay is a no go for parts in my book unless it’s a junkyard part or aftermarket.

 

[Neil]

How did your Bendix and ring gears look? Any evidence of damage?

 

[Joel K]

Where are you ordering from? Rockauto has never failed me yet. eBay is a no go for parts in my book unless it’s a junkyard part or aftermarket.

Depends what I’m buying if I buy off eBay. Your right though, Rockauto is a great source and hassle free returns. They have a couple brands of new starters starting at $95.

 

[Ken Roberts]

Here is the “D” shaped plug/pigtail that I bought for my Audi R8 starter. it’s a VW part number. Looks like you bought the same one.....cheers

#1K0973751

 

[Dan Carter]

Neil: No evidence of ring gear or flywheel damage. It looks like the damage was contained.

ken: thanks. Sometimes it’s good to be lucky

Joel: I ordered the connector, the wire, pin and the rubber insert. I did not see a boot. It’s not that much money. If you found exactly what you need you should go for it. I can put the parts with my collection of RCR parts I have accumulated...lol

Kyle: rock auto was the retail out for the starter. Could not find the connector thru them. Found pigtail on eBay in a VW bag. Hope it’s genuine, but as long as it works.

 

[Hector]

Dan,
Glad there was no damage to your transmission or flywheel . Thanks for sharing, the unit I got form RCR is a remanufactured one, maybe I should order a new one,

 

[Joel K]

Neil: No evidence of ring gear or flywheel damage. It looks like the damage was contained.

ken: thanks. Sometimes it’s good to be lucky

Joel: I ordered the connector, the wire, pin and the rubber insert. I did not see a boot. It’s not that much money. If you found exactly what you need you should go for it. I can put the parts with my collection of RCR parts I have accumulated...lol

Kyle: rock auto was the retail out for the starter. Could not find the connector thru them. Found pigtail on eBay in a VW bag. Hope it’s genuine, but as long as it works.

Dan, It’s a rubber insert I called a boot. I’ll buy it from you to avoid adding it to the pile of parts collection. I’ll text you my address and can PayPal you the $$.

 

[Dan Carter]

Ill send picture as soon as it arrives. You can verify the parts. Thanks

 

[Dan Carter]

Lets see if I can beat a dead horse....no a dead starter. Got some excellent advise on what to check for and I thought this bit of info may help those who have yet to install the starter. I discovered that the even with the same part number, the Bendix gear is cut different. The inside channel of the Bendix teeth has one that is rounded, and the other is a straight cut. The concern is if the Bendix extends to far, the rounded section of the teeth would interfere/hit/jam with the teeth on the flywheel in full extension. So I measured the new starter and below are my findings. Because the measures were so close (0.010 clearance), I took three sets of measures and worked with an average. It looks like I have clearance, but so close. A shim might be a item you have to deal with.

If not for a $15 dollar plug, I would have the car back on the road, assuming no other issues surface during restart. Part is stuck in San Antonio. I really don't like stuff shipped USPS....uugghh.

 

[Brian Kissel]

Excellent info Dan. Thanks for posting it.
Regards Brian

 

[Terry Oxandale]

So this was not an issue with it staying engaged while the engine was running?

 

[Dan Carter]

It’s possible. After a start and after about 1/4 mile I noticed a noise I have never heard. Shortly thereafter engine died and a puff of smoke exited rear bonnet. Post mortem discovery was exploded starter. Probably caused by starter remaining engaged. $64000 question is why. I think a heat blanket short was the actual issue, but checking the Bendix while it was out made sense. As soon as starter plug arrives I will try to start her again.

 

[Randy V]

I’m not saying that this is what happened, but I have my suspicions..
Proper wiring if you have both an external solenoid as well as one on the starter.
Do NOT be tempted to run a jumper wire between the primary wire post on the starter to the secondary post (big one) on the starter. If wired improperly, the starter becomes a generator and it can easily generate enough current to keep the bendix engaged with the flywheel...
Note: you can connect the starter’s “S” wire to either the S or I on the upper solenoid.