T70 barn find ?

Your Spyder looks ace, but I still prefer the coupe, as you can appreciate your pics really get me fired up, its a rare occurance to see one like that in bits and all the more interesting because of it. I havent even finished building my garage and its full already! I have got to clear a few other projects, then by that time I should have made a decision what to do.

Good luck on the racing, hope to see pics

Cheers
 
Everybody seems to prefer the coupe, but there is a certain feeling one gets cruising the backroads in a spyder that can't be had in the coupe. Regarding the bits and pieces, I'm ready to get the next load. This AM we put the chassis on the "operating table" (a wheeled table). I guess we are going to dis-assemble the front and rebuild the front suspension and cooling system. The car's bulkheads are in pretty good shape. The worst aspect of them is where the aluminum master and slave cylinders are attached to the steel bulkhead. A bit of corrosion there. No real rust to speak of. There are a lot of dents from jacks and hitting rumble strips, but no rust.
 
I dont doubt you are right, hopefully one day I will get a chance to try a spyder, how thick do you reckon the steel in the bulkheads are?
 
I have a gage checker and plan to check that. Mine are pretty thin. I would guess 18 gage. I need to find out for sure to help verify the cars authenticity.
 
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I have a gage checker and plan to check that. Mine are pretty thin. I would guess 18 gage. I need to find out for sure to help verify the cars authenticity.

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Greetings all!

Johan,
My T-70 MkI is .035" I forget what gage that is. Yours is definately a MkII by the suspension locations I see. That is a very good suspension. While the brakes have thin rotors, they work very well, but after a fiew laps on a race track they begin to lose out to the thick vented type. There are coupe type brakes you can upgrade to, but they would not be an advantage for street use.

The double hump dash was common for bodies from Mac McLendon, he had molds for the MKIII coupe and also the MKIII "B" coupes and both had the same dash with double humps which is NOT the original way they were done.

When you feel like posting your chassis number, I have a book by John Starkey that lists most of the history of the T-70 chassis. I can look it up for you.
I've got some pics of My T-70 MKI Spyder on my web page below.
http://www.PozziRacing.com
 
MKI & MK II are bolt on. KO's came later and some upgraded as I did. Brakes for street are totally fine.
Welcome David.
It's nice to have more owners of original cars on the site.
Johan
Your tub likely is SL71-34. The only thing that would get stickey is if someone is using that chassis #. IMO the Bartz conection would give you a very strong claim.
Best
 
Thanks for that info. It is little things like that issue with the way that the wheels attach keeping me skeptical about the originality of the car.Also, the front aluminum radiator support structure appears to have been fabricated specifically for the radiator, so can anyone tell me if the radiator appears original ? It is a race set-up, not a street set-up, so if it is not from 1966, then the car possibly has later racing history.
Little details that create questions.

I'm clearing them up though as fast as they arise, so I too am now fairly certain that it is Sl71/34. NOone else is recognized by Lola (the old Lola cars Ltd.)as owning the car.There is a complete folder of information showing the car being converted by the Bartz brothers. The car has traveled 733 miles since 1980, 200 miles of which were done in 1982.
I put it on the wheeled table, took some of the frontend apart, in order to start working on it. I started polishing up the tub and then stopped, because it started looking too good. I'm going to leave it old for a while longer.The car has a very unique smell to it. Sort of like the inside of a submarine, or an old locomotive, or the inside of a lighthouse. Maybe rat droppings come to think of it !
Smells like HISTORY !
Rob, can you still do the old photo thing ?
 

Tim Kay

Lifetime Supporter
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......and she does not know that I have so many cars either !


[/ QUOTE ]
Now, there you go. A man who knows what to say and when to say it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Johan,
I remember your blue T-70, very nice car!
Your photo of the front wheel looks like a correct wheel but it kinda looks like an aluminum wheel.
If it's a two piece wheel it is probably a Phil Schmidt reproduction wheel.

All roadsters had the bolt on wheels, coupes had the knock off wheels. F5000 Lolas (T-140/142) had bolt on but used a steel hub, T-70 bolt on hubs were aluminum, Knock off's were steel of course.

The radiator is very close to original but looks a little thicker. I had to make a thicker core for mine because it would overheat with the stock one. The aluminum mounting looks non-original.

I may have a photo of the correct mounting, but there were two basic nose shapes for a T-70 spyder, one with headlights was used up thru the MKIII roadsters, but one without headlights was also used on MkIII spyders and was retrofitted onto the MKI and MKII cars because it was lighter and had less front end lift at high speeds.

The non headlight nose was modified by Penske and had the nose cut and flared out by pulling the glass outward just ahead of the front tires. This hides the tires a bit in front fiew helping aero, also this mod flattened the top of the "fender" just forward of the wheel center. Some other teams ran the "Penske" nose too, not sure if Penske originated it or got it from someone else.

Anyway, the point I'm making about the nose is, if your car had the non-headlight nose on it, that nose is lower and the radiator would have been dropped down about two inches to make it fit that nose. If later the coupe nose was put on, then something had to be changed to raise the rad back up.

My radiator mount is low but I made a spacer inside the nose to hold it in the proper position. That way, I can use either the headlight or non headlight nose.

There were a fiew coupe replacement tubs that became roadsters but retained the coupe knock offs. Original coupes had two battery box cutouts in the front edge of the drivers seats, spyders had one on the left side. This took a Varley battery on it's side.

MKII's had a longer lower wishbone on the rear suspension, a good idea. My MKI was shorter, the MkIII was back to shorter, then there were two or three MKIII "B" spyders built that had VERY long upper and lower links/wishbones. Those were the "best" but Lola screwed up the front suspension on all MKIII and III B's, they tried to add more neg camber gain by raising the upper balljoint, but that raised the allready too-high roll center even higher! It's something like 8" when it should be 3"!

They also took more and more weight out of the tub, and by the MKIII B, they were getting more and more flexable in torsional rigidity.

The MKII was the best in my opinion.

I can't find my Starkey book right now, I guess it's near the bottom of my book/catalog pile! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I saw the yellow Bartz car at McLendon's shop years ago when he was in Ventura California. It had a B coupe cab and tail but an A coupe nose grafted on over a B coupe type chassis. I guess they perferred the older nose, it sticks out less for street use.
 
David
Johan's Blue one is a replica. (Heritage) There were 4 Donohue T70 Spyders. I have one of the four Pensky/Donohue Spyders
SL 71-32. It's now a coupe. Johan's Bartz car wasn't the yellow one. It's the first one they built. SL 71-34.
The Yellow one wasn't built on a T 70 Tub but was 160.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Congratulations Johan, looks like you have cracked the jackpot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif No wonder I spend so much time reading this forum each day is a new history lesson in real time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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David
Johan's Blue one is a replica. (Heritage) There were 4 Donohue T70 Spyders. I have one of the four Pensky/Donohue Spyders
SL 71-32. It's now a coupe. Johan's Bartz car wasn't the yellow one. It's the first one they built. SL 71-34.
The Yellow one wasn't built on a T 70 Tub but was 160.

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The coupe's attract more attention but I'd rather race a spyder. We had a coupe roll over at Laguna Seca years ago, Terry Jones was driving and it landed on it's roof! He couldn't get out of the car until they righted it. Good thing it didn't catch fire...

I'd like to build a Coupe for street use some day. I've been saving parts...

Has anyone used a Hewland for street? A friend built a McLaren Coupe and the Hewland in that made a HUGE noise! I could hear the gear whine long before I could see the car coming. But I had anoter friend with an original T-70 Coupe with Hewland LG600 and his was very quiet.
 
Jim, the blue car is a replica, but did you know that Lola
Cars Ltd. were very happy with the car's wins at Spa and Nurburgring ?They wrote congratulatory letters after each win. The car is absolutely ultra fast, and is what a T70 would have become if still in development for another 15 or so years. The car, even as a replica, has enough race history to qualify to run SVRA events, in group 7.
The reason I mention this is that I hate to take it all apart to turn it into the coupe.
Alas, I feel that the only thing to do is build a new car to take the coupe body. Rats, there goes at least a year of garage time.
David, thanks for all the helpful participation. I love your car, and as I become more familiar with mine, I'm sure I'll have a million questions.
I'm in the process of scanning photos of the car prior to and during the conversion to a coupe. If there is any interest, I will post them.
Pete, it is not a jackpot, but a great find. There is a difference. I am poorer for sure as a result of finding the car, but a cheerful poor person non-the-less !
 
David, the wheels are magnesium that have been steel wooled and painted and clear coated. Awful, but fixable ! Probably not suitable for racing any longer, but I have some extras that will do nicely. What size wheels and what type of tires do you use ?
Thanks,
Johan
 
David
I drove SL 71-32 for many years on the street with her original Hewland. I really had no problems at all but it was a bit noisy. When I converted to a coupe I fitted a GT 40 ZF box that came from Kar Kraft.
You are right about the Coupe re: roll over. The original Lola roll bar was muffler pipe!

http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/20857/an/0/page/4#20857

On the street where I now drive my cars I'm very carefull to avoid roll over etc. It amazes me how fragile some of these cars are, my 412P and P 3/4 for example.
The guys that raced those in the rain at Spa had big ones.
Johan
You could leave the Bartz coupe as it is. It is "Disco Cool" and would make a fine street car as mine now does.
Best
 
David, this is a better picture of the wheel.
Jim or anyone, I've heard the name before, but who was John Mecom ? I think I found a bill of sale to John Mecom .
 

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