The Emergence Of Real Conservatism.

[Jim Craik]

So, let me review.

The conservatives have lost Women, Minorities, Gays, the Middle Class, the Poor and now the Military. It sounds like they are on the right track. Limbaugh/Bachmann 2016! Please, Please, Please!

I read recently that something like 30,000 Hispanics turn 18 each week while 30,000 old white guys pass on each week.................................good luck with the numbers!

 

[Doug S.]

Could a new "Camelot" be on the horizon, Jim?

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Jim are you not an old white guy?

 

[Jim Craik]

Pete I like to think of myself as a Pacific Islander

But, yes I am, and I'm just the person that the modern consevative think they can brainwash with there hate and lies. Once again they failed miserably.

But then failing seems to come naturally to them, does it not?

 

[Keith]

Could a new "Camelot" be on the horizon, Jim?

Cheers!

Doug

Damn dyslexics! Surely you mean CamelToe?

 

[Mark]

So, let me review.

The conservatives have lost Women, Minorities, Gays, the Middle Class, the Poor and now the Military. It sounds like they are on the right track. Limbaugh/Bachmann 2016! Please, Please, Please!

I read recently that something like 30,000 Hispanics turn 18 each week while 30,000 old white guys pass on each week.................................good luck with the numbers!

I love the fact that the above clearly proves that all gays, all women, all military personel, the entire middle-class, everyone who is 'poor' (relative) and all members of any and all 'minorities', are all automatons who think and act as one, with the same desires, dreams, goals and views. Not an original thought between them!

Rollox

When will you guys stop polarising everything and everyone?

 

[Pat]

So the Democrates have a "Vicious bias" towards the military?
This is from Bloomberg News
Military Personnel Campaign Funds Favor Obama Over Romney

By Laura Litvan on October 16, 2012
President Barack Obama has received almost twice as much in campaign contributions from U.S. military and Defense Department personnel as his Republican challenger Mitt Romney, despite Romney’s promises to boost defense spending and his criticism of military cuts set to take place in January.

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While it was once true that the US Military used to support the Republicans, that was before the whack jobs took over. That was before the Republicans lied us into two useless wars and killed thousands of our brave soldiers.

I don't know if I'll give you that one Jim.

Your data cited is for CONTRIBUTIONS, not numbers of actually voting preference supporters. The data and includes defense contractors, DOD civilian union employees with the largest individual contributions coming from Mr. Obama’s administration DOD political appointees, who in every administration get their jobs based on political support or contributions, not necessarily skill.
When the troops are actually polled the data is very different. The Military Times Poll just before the election is a secure email survey of active-duty, National Guard and reserve members who are subscribers to the Military Times newspapers.
The 3,100 respondents — roughly two-thirds active-duty and one-third reserve component members — are about 80 percent white and 91 percent male. Forty percent are in paygrades E-5 through E-8, while more than 35 percent are in paygrades O-3 through O-5.
Almost 80 percent of respondents have a college degree — including 27 percent with a graduate degree and more than 11 percent with a post-graduate degree — while an additional 18.5 percent have some college under their belts.
And they are battle-hardened; almost 29 percent have spent more than two cumulative years deployed since 9/11, while a similar percentage has spent one to two cumulative years deployed.
The Military Times poll shows that Republicans continue to enjoy overwhelming support among the military’s professional ranks by a 2-1 margin.
The administration's 17% increase in medical premiums has somewhat dampened enthusiasm for the administration. The Obama administration had pressed for heftier increases in its proposed fiscal 2013 defense budget along with new enrollment fees for Tricare Standard, Extra and Tricare For Life, the health benefit for Medicare-eligible retirees and their families. (Those proposals were struck down by the House and Senate Armed Services committees on a bipartisan basis.)
I don't think I would give the "military vote" (at least the ones that could get their ballots) to Mr. Obama. The fact that DOD is not in compliance with the 2009 law known as the Military and Overseas Voter Empowerment Act (MOVE) is a travesty. The law required absentee ballots be sent out no later than 45 days before an election -- but also required "voting assistance offices" be set up on most military installations. This simply didn't happen. In fact the Department of Defense Inspector General's office that found the voter assistance offices were not all established or funded "as intended" and many ballots were never received by troops in time to make state voter absentee submission deadlines. Federal officials say that absentee ballots being sent to U.S. military serving in Afghanistan may have been also burned in a plane crash two weeks prior to the election.

 

[Jim Craik]

"Almost 80 percent of respondents have a college degree"

Pat, do 80% of the US military have college degrees?


Your data was collected only from subscribers to the "Military Times". I could be wrong, but it sounds like this poll was only for "lifers" and "officers".

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The Military Times' subscriber has an average household income of more than $82,618 (27% higher than the average U.S. household income.)

***********************

Pat, does the average person in the military have an income of more than $82,618?

Are 91% of the military male?

 

[Jim Craik]

Pat,

I was talking about "the military".

The people you discribe are not "the military", they are a select group of highly paid, mostly officers, mostly college graduates, 80% white, 91% men and only folks who subscribe to "The Military Times".

Your numbers reminds me of this rare moment of truth from Fox........

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1lJ3tfQFpc"]Math you do as a republican[/ame]​

 

[Pat]

Jim, you can buy the Army Times, The Navy Times and Air Force Times at any BX, PX or exchange checkout counter. They are very widely read and subscribed. Forty percent of their sample are enlisted in pay grades E-5 through E-8 - not commissioned officers.
But if you want some other sources (as I mentioned your data based on contributions is a bit dubious due to the contributions of political appointees.)
The only available poll that specifically addressed younger military service members was conducted by Avalanche, LLC (an online military social network) 75% of male voters are planning to elect Mitt Romney, while 57% of female voters are supporting current President, Barack Obama. Given the military’s demographics, this certainly favored Mr. Romney.
Rasmussen Reports polling finds that 59% of likely U.S. Voters who are in or have served in the military favor the Republican challenger, while 35% support the president. Five percent (5%) of these voters like some other candidate in the race, but only two percent (2%) are undecided.
Gallup poll found veterans went 57%-35% for Mitt Romney over President Obama.
As for Mr. Powell's support of the President, he is in the significant minority among retired flag officers (Generals and Admirals). He is one of five high ranking retired military officers that publicly backed Mr. Obama’s reelection effort – 2 Generals, a Major General and 2 Admirals. Naturally, this has gotten plenty of play in the media.
What did not receive much attention is a full page newspaper ad that was run on the Monday before the election of top ranked retired military officers that supported Mr. Romney. It’s newsworthy to note that the ad was not being run by the Romney campaign, the Republican Party, nor any PAC, but by the military officers whose names are listed in the ad.
The ad listed 496 retired General and Flag officers, including 19 Four Star Generals and 16 Full Admirals. You can read it yourself below. (I actually worked for three of those listed).

» Nearly 500 Top Ranked Retired Military Officers To Place Ad In Support Of Mitt Romney

 

[Jim Craik]

Pat, what you say makes sense, but I do have to wonder how accurate any polls taken with military folks could be. Would the average soldier feel safe saying that he would really vote for the Muslim from Kenya?

Additionally if the original data about twice the amount of contributions going to Obama is true, why wouldn't these military and defense dept folks also donate to Romney?

Don't you just love that Fox/Rove clip?

 

[Jim Craik]

Pat, this is from "Outside the Beltway" It seems to confirm what you say about the Officers, but it also seems to confirm what I say about the military in general.

It is true that the upper echelons of the military tilt right. My own research confirmed that about two-thirds of majors and higher-ranking officers identify as conservative, as previous studies found. But that tilt becomes far less pronounced when you expand the pool of respondents. That is because only 32 percent of the Army’s enlisted soldiers consider themselves conservative, while 23 percent identify as liberal and the remaining 45 percent are self-described moderates. These numbers closely mirror the ideological predilections of the civilian population. . . .
The political differences between officers and enlisted personnel can be partly explained by a demographic divide. Whereas officers are predominantly white, have at least a bachelor’s degree, and draw incomes that place them in the middle or upper-middle class, the enlisted ranks have a higher proportion of minorities, make less money than officers, and typically enter service with only a high school diploma. Nevertheless, even when controlling for factors like race and gender, officers are significantly more likely than soldiers to identify as conservative. . . .

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If the average enlisted person "mirrors" the country, and we as know America is: Democrats 47%, Republicans 43% then like I say, the Military is no loger automatically Republican.


Pat, I think a very good example of this change in the military from Conservative toward Liberal is the acceptance of gays. Can you imagine even 10 years ago making it legal to be a gay soldier??..... "No chance"!

Today "No problem".

 

[Pat]

Pat, I think a very good example of this change in the military from Conservative toward Liberal is the acceptance of gays. Can you imagine even 10 years ago making it legal to be a gay soldier??..... "No chance"!

Today "No problem".

Jim,
Calling the military "liberal" is quite a stretch. I think you harbor a stereotype from the '40s. Just about every unit I was in had gay soldiers. Everybody knew it and candidly unless it was made an issue, they really didn't care. Don't ask-don't tell made it illegal in 1993 to inquire or to make any issue of sexual preference unless there was an issue raised. Often it was the soldier wanting out of the military by claiming to be gay and often that was simply a smokescreen to simply get out of their enlistment. Sadly soldiers, male and female are too reluctant to report sexual harassment and bad behavior is overlooked until it goes out of control. I've seen (and had to investigate) too many of these events.
Personally, I thought don't-ask was a good middle ground as what somebody does off duty really isn't the military's business unless it puts others at risk (like giving your girlfriend classified information - a rant I'll have another day!) Now that is gone and the only real angst I found about sexually active (multiple partner) gays was the same as sexually active IV drug users and others engaging in high risk behavior. The emergency fresh blood supply of a unit is carried into battle in the veins of its soldiers. I've had situations where everyone with a certainly blood type was pulled out of formation and "volunteered" to donate, often for the benefit of local civilian casualties. Obviously these could be an issue given the expediency of needing to test for HIV, or other blood borne pathogens before the donated blood can be distributed.
The issues I think combat troops have with the current administration are the hits to benefits and the absurd rules of engagement I've commented on before. I also believe the data as to the conservative orientation of the majority of service personnel, whether they call themselves conservative or moderate. I also think it's safe to say that the political appointees of Mr. Bush certainly contributed as agressively to his campaign as those appointed by Mr. Obama did for his. I can't imagine an Obama appointee donating to Mr. Romney and keeping his job very long.

 

[Jim Craik]

Pat,

If you go back and read my post, I did not say the the military is "liberal", I said that the Military was "moving from Consevitive toward Liberal" and I'm fairly sure it is.

When only 32% of enlisted troops call themselves Consirvative, I think that is change we can believe in

 

[Pat]

My goof Jim.
I don't know that I would have the military votes penciled in for Hillary in 2016 though.

 

[Jim Craik]

Pat,

Obviously you are the expert when it comes to the military, I wouldn't begin to tell you how it is.

But it seems to me as the average age of Concervatives rises, the relatively younger enlisted folks appear to be turning slightly left, maybe......Sir?

As far as Hillary goes, I bet she is through with Govenment. That Sec State job is a very, very tough one, she looks worn out.

I know she has taken this job very seriously, I'm afraid it might just have done her in. Just as it did for Powell and Rice.

 

[Doug S.]

Pat,
I know she has taken this job very seriously, I'm afraid it might just have done her in. Just as it did for Powell and Rice.

I often thought that Powell would have been a shoe-in for POTUS, could never figure out why he didn't run....guess that might have been it :idea: .

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Bob Fechter]

This day witnessed the democrats pulling out every stop to hide the true results of the re-election of Congressman Allen West. This is a textbook example of virulent cheating, and should change election laws world wide.


"After the canvassing board in St. Lucie County, Fla., missed a noon deadline to file election results with the Division of Elections on Sunday, the Allen West campaign questioned the ability of elections supervisor Gertrude Walker to "fairly and accurately count the results of an election."

"Today's actions cast an even greater cloud of suspicion over the results of St. Lucie County than existed before," campaign manager Tim Edson said in a press release. "Consequently, the highly-suspect results will be submitted to the Secretary of State today - even though the canvassing board has already admitted they may contain serious errors."

"Once again, Gertrude Walker has proven to be absolutely incapable of executing an accurate and fair election," Edson continued. "This election is far from over. We will continue to fight on behalf of all voters in District 18 to ensure a fair and accurate count of their votes."

According to a post at The Right Scoop, "all votes were counted but one card wouldn’t upload results."

Other problems arose when, according to Edson, a precinct with seven voters had 900 votes.

“We have concerns here,” he said. “The results are raising more questions.”

West's Democratic opponent, Patrick Murphy, declared victory again after the deadline passed.

"As far as we're concerned, this puts an end to it," said Murphy campaign senior advisor Eric Johnson. "The West people demanded a recount. They got that retabulation and Patrick Murphy gained a margin of 242 votes."

"Under Florida law, the final certified results were due from all of the state’s 67 supervisors of elections today," The Palm Beach Post reported. "If the results do not arrive on time, the certified unofficial results submitted last Sunday stand. Those results have Murphy, a Democrat, winning by 0.58 percent. A spread of less than 0.5 percent would have triggered an automatic recount."

In an update, the Post said that Florida law does allow an exemption to the deadline in an emergency, and said that "West’s attorney are expected to argue that the exemption applies."

"The only thing voters should find more outrageous than the conduct of the Supervisor of Elections is the fact that Patrick Murphy and his father's high-priced legal team are once again declaring victory, despite knowing full well that the results of this election are highly suspect," Edson said. "It's clear Patrick Murphy puts his own interests ahead of the people he claims he wishes to represent."

Allen West campaign: 'Cloud of suspicion' over results in St. Lucie County - National Elections | Examiner.com

 

[Jim Craik]

This just in.......

Allen West insisted on a recount in St Lucie County, well, they have just finished the recount and it seems the new leader of the real Conservatives is even a bigger loser than we thought. The recount has cost West 242 votes.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Even liberals see the cheating.

"I had written that I am a liberal in support of Allen West getting a fair deal. I said that the Democrats appeared to be engaged in election fraud. I believed that the handling of this election eroded the efforts of voter right advocates to spotlight the voter suppression efforts of Republican Governor Rick Scott. I still feel that way. In fact I believe that the actions of the Democratic Party in St. Lucie, Florida will become the case study for Scott and others to implement even more suppressive and repressive voter rights legislation. And they will have the justification for doing so. Unfortunately, it will be aimed at the voters when all election fraud as this sorry episode proves is committed by election officials. Thanks St. Lucie, Florida. Election fraud does exist and the Democrats in Florida are up to their eyes and elbows in it."

Florida Election Results 2012: Allen West Was Robbed, Why Democrats, Too, Cheated in Florida