The Shirley Sharrod Affair
- Thread starter domtoni
- Start date
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Al, were did you get these numbers?
Assuming they are true (you can not be too careful with data from consirvatives).
If they are true, then you can not say Obama did not follow through on his campain promise for "change".
It appears from your chart that the highest % of private sector Cabinet Appointments in recent times were Reagan and Bush, two administrations who knew how to ruin an economy.
See the attached chart
It looks to me like Obama may be on to something.
Assuming they are true (you can not be too careful with data from consirvatives).
If they are true, then you can not say Obama did not follow through on his campain promise for "change".
It appears from your chart that the highest % of private sector Cabinet Appointments in recent times were Reagan and Bush, two administrations who knew how to ruin an economy.
See the attached chart
It looks to me like Obama may be on to something.
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Nick,
What happens here is the entertainment source that Al listens to is incredibally outraged daily, by almost any thing they can think of that Obama does. And Al like a good little puppy POSTS THEIR PROPAGANDA almost daly.
As you can see thy are getting a little low on things to be outaged about. But that will not stop the OUTRAGE!!!
Our job is to put this "OUTRAGE" into perspective for them.
What happens here is the entertainment source that Al listens to is incredibally outraged daily, by almost any thing they can think of that Obama does. And Al like a good little puppy POSTS THEIR PROPAGANDA almost daly.
As you can see thy are getting a little low on things to be outaged about. But that will not stop the OUTRAGE!!!
Our job is to put this "OUTRAGE" into perspective for them.
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Jim,
Bit harsh on Al.
I really hope he replies to my post as I am genuinely unsure what point he is making with those stats, I think I know but don't want to assume anything.
It's that tight underwear!
Do a google search Jim, not all right wing in the bushes stuff. You are cranky and a bit abrasive!
Do a google search Jim, not all right wing in the bushes stuff. You are cranky and a bit abrasive!
Jim, I've said this before, but I'm doing it this time. You are too invested in BO's success to see any fault anywhere. I'm doing car stuff unless I find something that will really get your shorts in a knot. Bye.
You should've looked at your own chart.Al, were did you get these numbers?
Assuming they are true (you can not be too careful with data from consirvatives).
If they are true, then you can not say Obama did not follow through on his campain promise for "change".
It appears from your chart that the highest % of private sector Cabinet Appointments in recent times were Reagan and Bush, two administrations who knew how to ruin an economy.
See the attached chart
It looks to me like Obama may be on to something.
I have to jump in here and ask why the percentage of private sector cabinet members is such a big deal? Looking at the presidents who had high % of private sector members, I would ask what sectors they came from. Hell, weren't you the least bit curious about Cheney's prior position at Halliburton? Halliburton and its subsidiaries do ALOT of work around the world with military base construction, basic infrastructure, and oil related work. Seems to be a lot of all of that in the news in the past decade...
Nice to see that somebody else sees it like I do!
Doug
Doug,
No offense but the old saying goes that "the ones that can do, do..and the ones that can't do..teach". The majority of the current administration is made up of people that have never had a job that was dependent upon them competing in the private sector. I believe that is what others were referring to. Academicians and government policy wonks make up the majority of the current cabinet. We must agree that these people have had the advantage of tenure and have been protected from the harsher rules of business. I know that there are a few of you who think that by writing books and conducting research grants or manipulating public servants and managing the political minefield in public office constitutes expertise, but most of the world lives in a harsher reality than that. If you fail, you go broke. That has a way of clarifying ones thoughts and makes for a great teacher of how to survive in the real world. I would postulate that a man or woman who is tested under fire and has survived is a better leader than someone who is guaranteed a job through political adroitness.
I now stand back and wait for the flames!
Garry
No offense but the old saying goes that "the ones that can do, do..and the ones that can't do..teach". The majority of the current administration is made up of people that have never had a job that was dependent upon them competing in the private sector. I believe that is what others were referring to. Academicians and government policy wonks make up the majority of the current cabinet. We must agree that these people have had the advantage of tenure and have been protected from the harsher rules of business. I know that there are a few of you who think that by writing books and conducting research grants or manipulating public servants and managing the political minefield in public office constitutes expertise, but most of the world lives in a harsher reality than that. If you fail, you go broke. That has a way of clarifying ones thoughts and makes for a great teacher of how to survive in the real world. I would postulate that a man or woman who is tested under fire and has survived is a better leader than someone who is guaranteed a job through political adroitness.
I now stand back and wait for the flames!
Garry
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Posted by Al
Yes Al I am all those things! You can add tired and frustrated.
I do not like continually having to refute one post after another, I think we have all seen that todays post about % of...........................
Just made it obvious to every one what a waste of time this is.
My friend, I do not start attack threads I only answer them, if you do not start them I do not have to answer them and we will all feel better,
Deal?
Gary,
All those that do will almost certainly have been taught at some point. I also suspect that if you ask them who inspired and encouraged them to do, the majority will say it was a teacher.
Garry, would you have said that if you had known that I spent 32 years in public education, helping to reach the hardest to teach, those with educational handicaps? 7 of those years were as a Speech/Language Pathologist, helping students of all ages overcome delayed language skills and develop life skills, the other 25 were as a diagnostic specialist, helping identify those with educational handicaps and teaching teachers and parents, alike, how to utilize their children's strengths to make maximum progress.
You're not the first to have said that to me, nor will you be the last, but I must admit that it never fails to leave me with the feeling that I've been insulted, and to have you say "...no offense" does nothing to relieve that feeling; rather, it exacerbates it b/c it makes me feel that you think I'm stupid enough to believe your condescending attitude.
To you, I would say this......if you want to really learn something well, learn it well enough to teach it.
Try it, Garry.......and when you have realized how difficult it is to be a teacher, I'll gladly accept your apology.
.....'till then, however, I'll be forever insulted by your tactless attack on those on whom our civilization relies to make sure we do not regress, but continue to progress.
Shame on you Garry, regardless of your intention, for having quoted that saying. You should be ashamed....I'd wager that you've gotten where you are b/c of some teachers along the way. Go back and tell those teachers what you just said.....I DARE YOU!
One very sincerely and decidedly insulted Doug.
Doug,
I am biased as my wife is a primary teacher I think you would need to live with a dedicated teacher to fully understand what they go through.
I know of no other profession where everyone else is an expert, where you are constantly performance managed and assessed. Where due to budget cuts many will pay for resources to teach out of your own wages, imagine how that would go down in industry.
Well Bill we have no rods for your welding today just nip down the shops and buy some with your own money will you. Buy the way we are sending you on a course next week, take your own car pay for the fuel yourself and if you have to do overtime don’t expect to get paid for it.
However we are biased, so it was interesting to watch a recent reality TV programme here in the UK were (admittedly celebrities), who had "done it" spent a a week teaching.
Now you can bet your bottom dollar they were given the brightest most well behaved children, but the stress they went through was unbelievable, crying total despair etc. Most who thought it was going to be easy had a rude awakening and admitted so, and they only had to do it for a week not 32 years.
I have total admiration for anyone who does the job.
Al,
Although if I was a US citizen I would have voted for Obama I can see his faults especially over his treatment of BP so I don’t believe I can be classed as having to much invested in BO's success to see any fault.
Surely for the sake of the US, and a financially strong US is good for the rest of the world so why would you not want him to suceed.
You have not answered my question so I have to assume.
I believe you posted the stats as you are using the argument that as the Obama administration only has 8% with private sector experience, this makes them a bad government.
So looking at the stats if you asked a wide selection of people to pick from the list, (personal lives apart) which recent regime was the most effective, with the most charismatic, intellectual, dynamic, reforming leaders I am willing to bet your life the answer would be Kennedy Clinton Obama.
Likewise if you asked the question which leader charisma aside was, the least cerebral, least visionary, least finger on the pulse, kind of guy I suspect it would be Reagan and George W Bush.
If your final question was who was the only US president to resign due to political scandal you would get Nixon.
So looking at the stats and rearranging them in % terms for those presidents we have
Obama...... 8%
Kennedy..... 30%
Clinton ....... 39%
GW Bush..... 55%
Reagan.......56%
My conclusion, if you want a charismatic, intellectual, dynamic led regime go for a cabinet with a low percentage of
If you want the least cerebral, visionary finger on the pulse, regime go for a cabinet with a high percentage of private sector experience.
So what does this prove? nothing really, but it proves you can use those stats to support your argument I can use them to support mine. So I guess we have lies, dammed lies and stats.
It proves that as sure as eggs is eggs governments change from Democrats to Republicans and back again.
Finally it proves it don’t matter who you vote for the government always gets in.
Doug,
I admit to having used this phrase before, although never in public, or to a teacher (although that does NOT make it right).
My hat goes off to you and Nick's wife. What you posted above will forever change my mind regarding that hackneyed phrase, and I will NOT use it again. It is a flip and pointless statement that does no one any credit, whether a teacher, or the user of the phrase.
Thank you for enlightening me on this. I will be a better person for it.
All the best,
Graham.
Graham,
Thank you for you honesty, we are all capable of throw away remarks and the problem with internet debating is you get no visual clues as to if the remark is leg pulling or serious.
Some would say we should not be so sensitive but having met many many teachers by and large the nature of the job tends to make them caring, compassionate and sensitive, and long may that continue.
Thank you for you honesty, we are all capable of throw away remarks and the problem with internet debating is you get no visual clues as to if the remark is leg pulling or serious.
Some would say we should not be so sensitive but having met many many teachers by and large the nature of the job tends to make them caring, compassionate and sensitive, and long may that continue.
Doug,
I am sorry if you were offended. I was referring to higher education professors in the universities not primary and secondary teachers. My daughter is a teacher in middle school and I am well aware of her sacrifice. She has a brilliant mind as well. Please accept my apologies for any offense that you may have felt.
In my defense, I was discussing a disparity of reality with regards to the working world in the halls of universities. Too many professors spend their time in research of dubious distinction and have no practical experience in the business world. I don't know about your experience, but I can count on one hand the professors that I had in economics that had any practical experience in the philosophy they taught. It seemed to me that these educators were not in tune with the real world and how it works. Protected from being fired regardless of their contributions to educating underclassmen due to tenure, they deferred the teaching to 'assistants' who were working on advanced degrees. Again this is why most people exiting university are not prepared for the working world. What possible experience have these teaching assistants had that they can impart other than how to pass an exam?
When a sitting president appoints his cabinet with tenured professors and former political hacks he risks having people in charge that don't understand the industries that they are supposed to manage other than from a theoretical point of view. Maybe that is how we get situations such as the Minerals Management Office having regulators that do not know how oil exploration works or the shortcuts that some companies may take.
You are right that great teachers inspire and I have had the privilege of knowing several. Sadly, the teacher has been taken out of the classroom in primary and secondary education with the growth of government and the lack of respect for the profession in general. I would postulate that when you graduated high school, you were prepared to enter the workforce and that is not the case today.
Garry
I am sorry if you were offended. I was referring to higher education professors in the universities not primary and secondary teachers. My daughter is a teacher in middle school and I am well aware of her sacrifice. She has a brilliant mind as well. Please accept my apologies for any offense that you may have felt.
In my defense, I was discussing a disparity of reality with regards to the working world in the halls of universities. Too many professors spend their time in research of dubious distinction and have no practical experience in the business world. I don't know about your experience, but I can count on one hand the professors that I had in economics that had any practical experience in the philosophy they taught. It seemed to me that these educators were not in tune with the real world and how it works. Protected from being fired regardless of their contributions to educating underclassmen due to tenure, they deferred the teaching to 'assistants' who were working on advanced degrees. Again this is why most people exiting university are not prepared for the working world. What possible experience have these teaching assistants had that they can impart other than how to pass an exam?
When a sitting president appoints his cabinet with tenured professors and former political hacks he risks having people in charge that don't understand the industries that they are supposed to manage other than from a theoretical point of view. Maybe that is how we get situations such as the Minerals Management Office having regulators that do not know how oil exploration works or the shortcuts that some companies may take.
You are right that great teachers inspire and I have had the privilege of knowing several. Sadly, the teacher has been taken out of the classroom in primary and secondary education with the growth of government and the lack of respect for the profession in general. I would postulate that when you graduated high school, you were prepared to enter the workforce and that is not the case today.
Garry
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