Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I was going to have lunch. Maybe I'll wait a bit, now......(hurl)
The us election 2012 - obama or romney?
- Thread starter Keith1
- Start date
That photoshop reminds me of the old joke;
Have you heard of the new Tysons Chicken Hilary pack? It contains no breasts and extra large thighs.
Have you heard of the new Tysons Chicken Hilary pack? It contains no breasts and extra large thighs.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
No mention of climate change by either candidate. Is it dead in the water or too
Hot to handle?
Come to think of it no mention of gun control either.
Hot to handle?
Come to think of it no mention of gun control either.
Probably neither, Pete...IMHO it's largely irrelevant. The U.S. is in more crisis than I have ever seen in my almost 64 years, and whether or not climate change is real (I think we all believe it is) and whether or not we think mankind can or will do anything to create or stop the effects (I think most of us agree that they either can't, won't or don't need to), the issues facing the U.S. are more immediate. There is a huge divide between the ideologies of the two candidates and the two reigning parties here in the U.S.
I must say I was pleasantly surprised that Governor Chris Christie complimented B.O. on his handling of the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy...even as he was saying that he was going to vote for Romney (gotta follow the party line or the party turns it's back on you) he had the good grace to acknowledge that B.O. put politics aside and did what the people needed, regardless of past or future disagreements. I predict he'll be POTUS someday....not that I think that will be a good thing, but I think he has the mass appeal to pull it off.
Tomorrow it all comes to a head....IMHO we'll not know the end result for a few days since some of the states are adding extra voting days so that those displaced by the hurricane can arrange for a way to vote.
I, for one, will be glad to see the mudslinging stop....and NOT glad to see the partisan bickering start over. We need to just do away with parties altogether, IMHO, as we have the technology now to function in a true democratic manner....let the public vote on every matter of importance, or even every matter than isn't important....all we'd need is a bureaucratic mechanism to identify the winners of political races by popular vote. No need for parties any more, no need for PAC's, just let each candidate speak for himself and let the chips, or perhaps the votes, fall where they may.
Tomorrow should be one hell of a tense day!
Cheers!
Doug
I must say I was pleasantly surprised that Governor Chris Christie complimented B.O. on his handling of the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy...even as he was saying that he was going to vote for Romney (gotta follow the party line or the party turns it's back on you) he had the good grace to acknowledge that B.O. put politics aside and did what the people needed, regardless of past or future disagreements. I predict he'll be POTUS someday....not that I think that will be a good thing, but I think he has the mass appeal to pull it off.
Tomorrow it all comes to a head....IMHO we'll not know the end result for a few days since some of the states are adding extra voting days so that those displaced by the hurricane can arrange for a way to vote.
I, for one, will be glad to see the mudslinging stop....and NOT glad to see the partisan bickering start over. We need to just do away with parties altogether, IMHO, as we have the technology now to function in a true democratic manner....let the public vote on every matter of importance, or even every matter than isn't important....all we'd need is a bureaucratic mechanism to identify the winners of political races by popular vote. No need for parties any more, no need for PAC's, just let each candidate speak for himself and let the chips, or perhaps the votes, fall where they may.
Tomorrow should be one hell of a tense day!
Cheers!
Doug
Pat
Supporter
... "voting is the best revenge." -Barack Obama
Revenge against whom, for what???
Somehow I don't think Mr. Obama's victory is going to be healing of partisian bickering, a wellspring of sudden bipartisian cooperation and and end to class warfare.
Given Mr. Trumka's of the AFL-CIO comments, it will undoubtedly be a victory for big unions, big government and continued devaluation of success and exceptionalism in favor of wanting our children and grandchildren to grow up to be "just like everyone else..."
By the end of Mr. Obama's second term, the deficit will be over $20 Trillion. We will all be slaves to it. Today we have more government debt per person than Portugal, Italy, Spain, or Greece. Yet the President, his party and his supporters seem strangely unconcerned.
Whatever the outcome - if they continue to print money for which they have no holdings to back - it will most certainly seal our fate in the USA. We will end up speaking a funny language, farming rice and building Buicks for the rest of time....
Get out and vote all you USA citizens!!!
Get out and vote all you USA citizens!!!
Veek, I can provide one person's answer to that question, not that it will solve anything.
I think we're wrong to think the President has anything to do with the partisan political gridlock that has our country hamstrung, it is congress.
When the Republicans regained control of the House in the mid-term elections, John Boehner appointed himself head of the resistance movement and during his "reign" he has held MANY viable and reasonable proposals captive to his own agenda. There have been MANY issues that had the Republican party only voted for the benefit of their constituents would have passed and many of those who voted for those very obstructionist Republicans would have been helped when they needed it. But....Boehner continued the Tom Delay "Win at ALL costs" attitude, and the cost was that people across the nation are struggling because of the legislative gridlock.
Sure, I think Reed has done much the same thing with the Senate, but in terms of magnitude he can't hold a candle to Boehner.
So, here's what I did when I voted.....I voted for candidates of each party in races where I knew enough about the issues to make an intelligent decision, and then I violated one of my principal cannons, which is that an uninformed vote is worse than no vote at all. In those races where I knew not the first thing about the issues I voted every time for the Democratic, Liberterian or Green party candidate. I wanted revenge against the Republican Party.
There, you have one man's admission of revenge voting. Was I effective? Not on your life...Texas is so conservative that we elect buffoons like Gee Dub and "Governor Good Hair" Rick Perry. There are plenty of more acceptable conservatives in our state, but we ARE a state of excess and that apparently extends to electing the most excessively unlikable leaders. My votes made not one whit of a difference to the outcome of the elections, but had I not voted my conscience, even in races where I knew nothing about the issues, I would have regretted it.
At least now I can say I did what little I could....wish I thought I could say the same about Boehner.
Let's all hope our country recovers from this partisan hatred to which I have just admitted guilt.....:thumbsdown:
Cheers? I think not.....
Doug
One can only hope, Doug. One of the first things that needs to be done is to phase out government schools that have teachers who have been subverting our children's minds with this line of crap for sixty years, and more.
Pat
Supporter
Doug,
Perhaps your revenge is misplaced. I don't recall Mr. Obama's first two years when he had congress to include a veto proof senate as a wonderland of peace and harmony. We got a massive stimulus that there appear to have anything to show for it. We had the bailout of the auto unions at GM (which is still losing market share and reported a 13% profit drop last week and still owes the taxpayers for the $50 billion bailout in 2009) and Chrysler (which is now foreign owned by Fiat) when Ford got healthier on it's own. We now have a regulatory and healthcare environment that has paralyzed job creation (unless of course you work for the government). Read Bernstein’s book, "The Price of Politics."
Despite Republican whining about stiff tax hikes to help fix the mess, the fact is that Boehner was willing to go along with an $800 billion revenue increase suggested in Simpson-Bowles. The grand compromise was about done when Obama asked for another $400 billion. That was it. Game over. How bad a negotiator do you have to be to not get it that when you have a bird in hand you forget the two in the bush?
After the fact, Obama said the $400 billion was just a suggestion and fumed that Boehner stayed away from the phone for a day before he unleashed his fury on the speaker. Angrily blaming others for your own mistakes strikes me as the recipe to make things worse.
Bohner, Reed and Pelosi HAD AGREEMENT and Obama scuttled it. The president was outraged again when Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress, seeing the White House as a roadblock, swerved around it to negotiate their own deal. Dismissing the effort and later threatening a veto, Obama earned himself a rebuke from an aide to Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. This man, David Krone, found it a major lapse that the White House had no fallback plan when its initial bartering went astray.
Among others casting doubt on Obama as negotiator were Lawrence Summers, the former Harvard president and presidential financial adviser who said Obama just did not like the game, and Rep. Chris Van Hollen, top Democrat on the House Budget Committee, who accused the White House of having no strategy or "core principles." There's hearsay in the book that Vice President Joseph Biden, who himself seemed pretty able at reaching understandings with recalcitrant Republicans, said he would approach the negotiating "totally different" if it were up to him.
All of this matters, and it matters powerfully. We are facing a major fiscal crisis at the turn of the year if Congress does not act to keep Bush-era tax cuts in place while stopping immediate and drastic budget cuts. The latest unemployment figures show that even more frustrated people are dropping out of the job market. Middle-class incomes have fallen by thousands of dollars. And, among a host of other scary issues, we face a debt sure to deliver calamity in the absence of significant long-term cuts.
Sadly, we can look forward to four more years that replicate the last four. If you don't like living in Texas, move to California and enjoy the benefits of Prop 30, 38 and 39. Given your narrative, one has to wonder why so many people are relocating to Texas...and leaving California.
By the way, The Glass-Steagall Act was repealed by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley banking deregulation act, which passed with overwhelming majorities of both parties in both houses of Congress. The 2008 meltdown has been attributed directly to this law. Who did that anyway??? George H. Bush? George W. Bush ? Nope, it was eagerly signed into law by Bill Clinton.
Truth is, you are taking revenge on those generationally saddled with crippling debt and the outlook of a new norm of large government, high taxes, and 1-2% growth rates in the GDP.
Perhaps your revenge is misplaced. I don't recall Mr. Obama's first two years when he had congress to include a veto proof senate as a wonderland of peace and harmony. We got a massive stimulus that there appear to have anything to show for it. We had the bailout of the auto unions at GM (which is still losing market share and reported a 13% profit drop last week and still owes the taxpayers for the $50 billion bailout in 2009) and Chrysler (which is now foreign owned by Fiat) when Ford got healthier on it's own. We now have a regulatory and healthcare environment that has paralyzed job creation (unless of course you work for the government). Read Bernstein’s book, "The Price of Politics."
Despite Republican whining about stiff tax hikes to help fix the mess, the fact is that Boehner was willing to go along with an $800 billion revenue increase suggested in Simpson-Bowles. The grand compromise was about done when Obama asked for another $400 billion. That was it. Game over. How bad a negotiator do you have to be to not get it that when you have a bird in hand you forget the two in the bush?
After the fact, Obama said the $400 billion was just a suggestion and fumed that Boehner stayed away from the phone for a day before he unleashed his fury on the speaker. Angrily blaming others for your own mistakes strikes me as the recipe to make things worse.
Bohner, Reed and Pelosi HAD AGREEMENT and Obama scuttled it. The president was outraged again when Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress, seeing the White House as a roadblock, swerved around it to negotiate their own deal. Dismissing the effort and later threatening a veto, Obama earned himself a rebuke from an aide to Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. This man, David Krone, found it a major lapse that the White House had no fallback plan when its initial bartering went astray.
Among others casting doubt on Obama as negotiator were Lawrence Summers, the former Harvard president and presidential financial adviser who said Obama just did not like the game, and Rep. Chris Van Hollen, top Democrat on the House Budget Committee, who accused the White House of having no strategy or "core principles." There's hearsay in the book that Vice President Joseph Biden, who himself seemed pretty able at reaching understandings with recalcitrant Republicans, said he would approach the negotiating "totally different" if it were up to him.
All of this matters, and it matters powerfully. We are facing a major fiscal crisis at the turn of the year if Congress does not act to keep Bush-era tax cuts in place while stopping immediate and drastic budget cuts. The latest unemployment figures show that even more frustrated people are dropping out of the job market. Middle-class incomes have fallen by thousands of dollars. And, among a host of other scary issues, we face a debt sure to deliver calamity in the absence of significant long-term cuts.
Sadly, we can look forward to four more years that replicate the last four. If you don't like living in Texas, move to California and enjoy the benefits of Prop 30, 38 and 39. Given your narrative, one has to wonder why so many people are relocating to Texas...and leaving California.
By the way, The Glass-Steagall Act was repealed by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley banking deregulation act, which passed with overwhelming majorities of both parties in both houses of Congress. The 2008 meltdown has been attributed directly to this law. Who did that anyway??? George H. Bush? George W. Bush ? Nope, it was eagerly signed into law by Bill Clinton.
Truth is, you are taking revenge on those generationally saddled with crippling debt and the outlook of a new norm of large government, high taxes, and 1-2% growth rates in the GDP.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Doug
Can I ask a question?
If you are so against the "Conservatives", why do you choose to reside in a state where the powers that be are so far from your thinking?
OK I admit I am conservative - small "c" and probably not far from the mid ground if it all be told, and I consider it correct to live in a conservative area, vote conservative and keep the status quo.
I would no sooner think of moving to the neighbouring area (extremely Labour council) to live, however I know that people in that area are only to happy to move to "our" area. (After which they complain bitterly about the make up of our council)
Possibly I'm just naive but then again I moved to an area I liked with the governing by the party that I "lean" towards
Ian
Perhaps, Veek...I was just admitting to the urge to get revenge, and it had nothing to do with Obama's encouragement to do so, it raised its ugly head b/c of a long-standing dissatisfaction with Boehner's tactics.
I doubt that....first of all, my "revenge votes" were ineffective...TX has practically NO liberal office-holders now, in fact there were a few state offices in which the Democratic party did not even have a candidate....there was one race in which there was ONLY a Republican candidate...I did not vote in that race, could not bring myself to do so even though I had voted for Republicans in those races where I felt educated enough to make a rational decision.
Where my real disagreement arises, though, is that politics is just like education...pendulums swing, things get very intense in one direction and in a few years the intensity is in the opposite direction. The Republicans will probably be successful in the next Presidential election if not in this one...Chris Christie has impressed me and although I find it difficult to praise any Republican I can find the words to do so for him, so there must be a WHOLE lot more people liking him, too. He'll be able to swing the country back to the conservative agenda, much to my dismay, but this is a country of majority rule and if we are going to consider ourselves Americans we have to accept the good with the bad. IMHO we needed Obama after the disaster that was Gee-Dub...it may take 4 more years for the country to get over that...we'll see by the end of today, I guess.
About all the stimilus stuff, though....at least B.O. made arrangements to get repayment, how much $$ did Gee-Dub give to Wall Street without even thinking about enacting a requirement, much less establishing a mechanism, to get repayment????? Talk about a dumb-fuck!!!!
Again, sadly, no cheers today, it is a momentous day in history, but like the old quote "...there is no joy in Mudville, the mighty Casey has struck out!", I fear there will be no joy in whichever candidate wins today, for with either the U.S. will have struck out, too.
Doug
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Facts:
"Four more years"................................of what?
"Walk with me"......................Where?
How much was spent?... .......and nothing changed?
Could voting change anything? .....No, it would be declared illegal.
How much on Halloween costumes this year........$6.5 billion
How many people are living below the bread line and below the streets? (anywhere?) but in Las Vegas in particular?
Was America ready for a Mormon in the White House?
These were all questions by BBC and Sky Television presenters covering the U.S. election.
"Four more years"................................of what?
"Walk with me"......................Where?
How much was spent?... .......and nothing changed?
Could voting change anything? .....No, it would be declared illegal.
How much on Halloween costumes this year........$6.5 billion
How many people are living below the bread line and below the streets? (anywhere?) but in Las Vegas in particular?
Was America ready for a Mormon in the White House?
These were all questions by BBC and Sky Television presenters covering the U.S. election.
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The Republicans are going the same way as our own Conservatives. Their core vote is dying (literally). They will have to broaden their appeal if they want to survive.
Demographics. Its going to kill them off.
Demographics. Its going to kill them off.
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