Tiff Needell and the Superformance GT40 Mk11
- Thread starter Andre40
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Factory Five builds kits, Hi-Tech builds rollers, a different kettle of fish.
I have known about the license fron Safir to use the "GT40" name and the continuation chassis numbers for a while but had to wait until the news broke elsewhere. Jimmy told me about it last September in Cinci the day after he met with Bob Wood (safir) to go over the deal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif Lee Holman is using "HM" chassis numbers for his cars as they did in the 60's, Jimmy will be using the FAV/JW Engineering/Safir "P" prefix numbers so there is no overlap or confusion. The Holman MK II's cannot be called GT40's he has no rights or license to do so. I still find it hard to understand how Ford never registered the trademark but if the story is believed that Ford never really called 'em "GT40s" then it might be plausable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/soapbox.gif
So SPF owners will be able to say under oath "Yes, it's a REAL GT40", just not that its an OLD GT40! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Still a real value for a LOT of car! Make mine a MK I in titanium....
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I have known about the license fron Safir to use the "GT40" name and the continuation chassis numbers for a while but had to wait until the news broke elsewhere. Jimmy told me about it last September in Cinci the day after he met with Bob Wood (safir) to go over the deal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif Lee Holman is using "HM" chassis numbers for his cars as they did in the 60's, Jimmy will be using the FAV/JW Engineering/Safir "P" prefix numbers so there is no overlap or confusion. The Holman MK II's cannot be called GT40's he has no rights or license to do so. I still find it hard to understand how Ford never registered the trademark but if the story is believed that Ford never really called 'em "GT40s" then it might be plausable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/soapbox.gif
So SPF owners will be able to say under oath "Yes, it's a REAL GT40", just not that its an OLD GT40! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Still a real value for a LOT of car! Make mine a MK I in titanium....
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rick
How much $$ per chassis is this costing SPF?
Frankly I think it's a brilliant piece of marketing !
MikeD
How much $$ per chassis is this costing SPF?
Frankly I think it's a brilliant piece of marketing !
MikeD
Andre,
I bumped into you back in May last year whilst visiting RF but never had a chance to talk. I kept on going up the road to CAV and made my decision to go that route.
If you live a mile from me you probably heard my 40 today as I had it out three or four times to rattle the neighborhood. Life is fun!
Will take you up on the drink.......however being a Scotsman that ended up in Capetown via a 5 year stint in Texas I am strickly on the Bourbon.....America put me off beers!
Will call you
Stephen
I bumped into you back in May last year whilst visiting RF but never had a chance to talk. I kept on going up the road to CAV and made my decision to go that route.
If you live a mile from me you probably heard my 40 today as I had it out three or four times to rattle the neighborhood. Life is fun!
Will take you up on the drink.......however being a Scotsman that ended up in Capetown via a 5 year stint in Texas I am strickly on the Bourbon.....America put me off beers!
Will call you
Stephen
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/71583/page//fpart/2/vc/1
I think this is the one your thinking of. $375k
I think this is the one your thinking of. $375k
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
Interesting delima /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
A) Is the SPF a 'sleeper' in terms of purchase price wherein it will actually appreciate to the level of Safir's?
B) Does this bring the Safir value down? or,
C) Both values meet in the middle somewhere? or,
D) No change?
If you consider Safir to be a legitimate continuation and the SPF is endorsed as a continuation then logic tells me the value of each could be affected by the other? (A lot of this is speculating the 'mono' chassis must be built to original spec, I have not seen it)
A) Is the SPF a 'sleeper' in terms of purchase price wherein it will actually appreciate to the level of Safir's?
B) Does this bring the Safir value down? or,
C) Both values meet in the middle somewhere? or,
D) No change?
If you consider Safir to be a legitimate continuation and the SPF is endorsed as a continuation then logic tells me the value of each could be affected by the other? (A lot of this is speculating the 'mono' chassis must be built to original spec, I have not seen it)
Hi Steve,
I should have added that the reason for the late post was that in the first week of February I E-mailed Tiff to get his permission to post the pics but being no doubt a busy guy he never replied. A few days ago I phoned Jimmy to ask and he said go for it – have fun!
You must be the only Scotsman in the world on Bourbon but then anomalies exist. Back in 2002 when Gordon Murray invited me to lunch at his favourite Italian restaurant in Chobham he said with a wry grin that it must be the only Italian restaurant in the world with McLaren pics and posters on the walls!
Do you drink Bourbon for the same reason as Pete in Brisbane? To find out check his post TIGHTENING THE BELT under OFF TOPICS.
The Range would be the ideal place to meet for a drink. From April 23 my partner and I will be running the Constantia Auto Mart in the permanent marquee on a once per month basis. We’ll be selling vintage, classic and exotic cars as well as motor cycles on behalf of customers. There will be trestle tables for both the trade and the public from which to sell anything motor related. For April 23 I’ve lined up 10 American classics and we’ll have an American theme for the day. The American Consul General from the new, nearby Consulate is a regular visitor to The Range and I’ll be meeting with him next week to discuss the American day. Now that would be an ideal opportunity to join you in a Bourbon. Then I can go home and tell the wife how beautiful she looks!!! I’m doing a bit of subtle marketing to lure some forum members to Cape Town. The Range would be a fun place to meet.
Hi Oliver,
Yes, the guy in the background does look a bit like Ken Miles. Same strong jaw line.
Boy, you certainly get the guys on a roll. Before your time we had MEAT who also enjoyed stirring the pot and who had a few goes at me. I did a psycho-analysis profile of him and my conclusion was underneath the bluster he was actually a nice, kind and intelligent person. Amazingly he disappeared off the radar screen shortly afterwards. Maybe he preferred the bad boy image!!!
Hi Rick,
Thanks for clarifying the GT40 name and chassis details.
Hi Mark,
Jimmy’s claim, as Rick confirms, is for fully built cars. He ships about eight Cobra replicas per month to the US. He appeared recently on TV on a local motoring programmes and that’s what he said.
It’s quite possible that Factory Five sells more kits.
Life can be fun. Sometimes!
André 40
I should have added that the reason for the late post was that in the first week of February I E-mailed Tiff to get his permission to post the pics but being no doubt a busy guy he never replied. A few days ago I phoned Jimmy to ask and he said go for it – have fun!
You must be the only Scotsman in the world on Bourbon but then anomalies exist. Back in 2002 when Gordon Murray invited me to lunch at his favourite Italian restaurant in Chobham he said with a wry grin that it must be the only Italian restaurant in the world with McLaren pics and posters on the walls!
Do you drink Bourbon for the same reason as Pete in Brisbane? To find out check his post TIGHTENING THE BELT under OFF TOPICS.
The Range would be the ideal place to meet for a drink. From April 23 my partner and I will be running the Constantia Auto Mart in the permanent marquee on a once per month basis. We’ll be selling vintage, classic and exotic cars as well as motor cycles on behalf of customers. There will be trestle tables for both the trade and the public from which to sell anything motor related. For April 23 I’ve lined up 10 American classics and we’ll have an American theme for the day. The American Consul General from the new, nearby Consulate is a regular visitor to The Range and I’ll be meeting with him next week to discuss the American day. Now that would be an ideal opportunity to join you in a Bourbon. Then I can go home and tell the wife how beautiful she looks!!! I’m doing a bit of subtle marketing to lure some forum members to Cape Town. The Range would be a fun place to meet.
Hi Oliver,
Yes, the guy in the background does look a bit like Ken Miles. Same strong jaw line.
Boy, you certainly get the guys on a roll. Before your time we had MEAT who also enjoyed stirring the pot and who had a few goes at me. I did a psycho-analysis profile of him and my conclusion was underneath the bluster he was actually a nice, kind and intelligent person. Amazingly he disappeared off the radar screen shortly afterwards. Maybe he preferred the bad boy image!!!
Hi Rick,
Thanks for clarifying the GT40 name and chassis details.
Hi Mark,
Jimmy’s claim, as Rick confirms, is for fully built cars. He ships about eight Cobra replicas per month to the US. He appeared recently on TV on a local motoring programmes and that’s what he said.
It’s quite possible that Factory Five sells more kits.
Life can be fun. Sometimes!
André 40
Hi All,
The following pics of the Superformance monocoque were posted a long time ago. In the meantime as many new members have joined I’m sure they would have missed out and I’m repeating.
As there have been many interesting discussions on the pros and cons of both space (tube) frame chassis and monocoques, the pics clearly illustrate the construction of a monocoque.
The Superformance monocoque, developed in the Cape Town factory, started off life with 257, if I remember correctly, laser cut flat panels, from large to small. These had to be pressed, bent, shaped, nibbled, drilled and finally spot welded together in a large cradle jig.
I would like to take this opportunity to give a message to would-be car builders, in particular in view of the RF saga. Unless your company is properly funded, has the right people and expertise. plant and equipment, don’t go into the business. Wishful thinking or dreams won’t make it happen, rather buy a McDonald’s franchise or make pine furniture or something less complicated.
I cannot stress enough that car building is an involved and complex business and it requires top management skills, vision, foresight and fancy footwork.
Best regards,
André 40
The following pics of the Superformance monocoque were posted a long time ago. In the meantime as many new members have joined I’m sure they would have missed out and I’m repeating.
As there have been many interesting discussions on the pros and cons of both space (tube) frame chassis and monocoques, the pics clearly illustrate the construction of a monocoque.
The Superformance monocoque, developed in the Cape Town factory, started off life with 257, if I remember correctly, laser cut flat panels, from large to small. These had to be pressed, bent, shaped, nibbled, drilled and finally spot welded together in a large cradle jig.
I would like to take this opportunity to give a message to would-be car builders, in particular in view of the RF saga. Unless your company is properly funded, has the right people and expertise. plant and equipment, don’t go into the business. Wishful thinking or dreams won’t make it happen, rather buy a McDonald’s franchise or make pine furniture or something less complicated.
I cannot stress enough that car building is an involved and complex business and it requires top management skills, vision, foresight and fancy footwork.
Best regards,
André 40
Attachments
[ QUOTE ]
Rick
How much $$ per chassis is this costing SPF?
I don't know, I am not privvy to that info.
Frankly I think it's a brilliant piece of marketing !
Agreed! Jimmy is a very astute businessman and a real enthusiast-a combination that makes for good cars at good value.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rick
How much $$ per chassis is this costing SPF?
I don't know, I am not privvy to that info.
Frankly I think it's a brilliant piece of marketing !
Agreed! Jimmy is a very astute businessman and a real enthusiast-a combination that makes for good cars at good value.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
The roof/A and B post centre section is in fibreglass. The press tools for that section were subsequently made by Hi-Tech Automotive in Port Elizabeth and as I said before - MEGA BUCKS!
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right Andre, in fact the Safir built cars have a roof section that was hand formed on an English wheel and pieced together to the "B" pillars, etc. The original Ford/Abbey piece was larger and more complete but that takes a BIG press and proper matched die tooling. The Safir roofs were built by Brian Angliss as a subcontractor for Peter Thorpe when Safir was building chassis. Until one has really looked at the pieces that make up a '40 tub, the complexity does not register. Ford tooled this just like they were building a Falcon or a Cortina, as proper production tooling without regard for a cost/benefit ratio. Nowadays you can do steel pressings off urethane tooling and get several hundred sets of good dimensional parts but not thousands. But in 1963 there was steel tools for production or hardwood for prototypes. No CNC, laser or EDI machining to produce your dies, just a LOT of hand labor! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Makes the SPF tub eevn more impressive when you understand the quantity oan complexity of the tools involved....and then you have to weld it together! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The roof/A and B post centre section is in fibreglass. The press tools for that section were subsequently made by Hi-Tech Automotive in Port Elizabeth and as I said before - MEGA BUCKS!
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right Andre, in fact the Safir built cars have a roof section that was hand formed on an English wheel and pieced together to the "B" pillars, etc. The original Ford/Abbey piece was larger and more complete but that takes a BIG press and proper matched die tooling. The Safir roofs were built by Brian Angliss as a subcontractor for Peter Thorpe when Safir was building chassis. Until one has really looked at the pieces that make up a '40 tub, the complexity does not register. Ford tooled this just like they were building a Falcon or a Cortina, as proper production tooling without regard for a cost/benefit ratio. Nowadays you can do steel pressings off urethane tooling and get several hundred sets of good dimensional parts but not thousands. But in 1963 there was steel tools for production or hardwood for prototypes. No CNC, laser or EDI machining to produce your dies, just a LOT of hand labor! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Makes the SPF tub eevn more impressive when you understand the quantity oan complexity of the tools involved....and then you have to weld it together! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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