U.S. Airways Crash

I imagine that you all saw the landing. Any ideas how fast the speed scrubbed off once the tail hit the water at 130 mph? When the body of the plane touched water, how fast was he going and how fast did the speed scrub off?

As I have flown alot in my life (not a pilot however), I wondered what being a passenger was like.

Best
Dom
 
Mike,the first thing they did when the aircraft was pulled out of the drink and put on a barge was to pump out the tanks.Probably still full. You can check with the other pilots here but I wouldn't want fuel floating all around me on the surface after ditching and so,if dumping fuel, I would close any drains up before landing.Don't know if he had time to do that(entire flight was approx 7 min) or power to do that either. Probably just thinking where in the hell can I put this thing down? They were very lucky as the airplane sustained a lot of damage.The news photos showed the fuselage bottom was torn up and the covering on the lower half of one wing was torn right off by impact.It's amazing the plane stayed together. A.J.
 
To answer a few questions. If the pilots didnt have the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) up and working then a push button in the flight deck allows the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) to deploy. This provides hydraulic power to the "Blue" system and allows the emergency generator to come on line (this should happen automaticly). The RAT is good down to about 140kts. Its obviously allot more complex than this, but im trying to keep it simple

There is no facility to dump fuel on the A320.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Look at the photo to see what really caused the crash.
 

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Pete, you're absolutely right! Great picture.
Re. some comments:
The old test procedure for windshields is the proverbial 400 knot chicken, NOT frozen. I've never heard of firing chickens at engines to test them. The Navy did use walnut shells to polish their turbine blades on running engines (F-4 J-79s).
The airplane was almost certainly not full of fuel, in fact it probably had a light load because it's just a short hop to Charlotte. Airliners rarely if ever fly with full tanks. Weight increases fuel burn, and it takes away from payload. (the less than full tanks certainly contributed to the airplane floating).
The last report showed the APU was running.
Dave's comment about their taking off when birds were in the area is a little off center. Tower controllers routinely warn pilots if there are large flocks near the runways. On occasion, a take off may be delayed a few moments. On approach, birds generally get out of the way...operative word 'generally'. Small birds make a helluva bang if they hit the windshield, but engines can handle it 'most of the time'. A Canada goose is something else, like the Turkey Buzzards in the South West. We've lost fighters flying high speed low level routes. Getting back to Dave's comment, they hit the geese at 3200 ft., miles from the airport. Logic tells you if you delay a takeoff because there are birds within miles of the airport, you'd never take off. Consider, of the millions of flights daily, and the billions of birds in the same airspace, the statistics are actually surprisingly small. Can anyone remember the last time an airliner went down because of a bird strike?
Re. luck. The passengers were very lucky, lucky to have an unusually qualified pilot in command. The cabin crew did a great job too. They're the ones responsible for getting the people off the airplane in an orderly fashion.
Note that they said they felt what was a 'hard landing', no bounce. They did not realize they were in the water.
 
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David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
BA had an night time taxying incident on a B747.200 in Port of Spain where a man drove his car down the taxiway and jammed it under the no 2 engine and then ran underneath and jumped into the idling number 3 engine. The reason: his airport airport worker boyfriend had spurned him. The engine was damaged and nobody would touch it so, if memory serves me , the skipper borrowed the water fire tender
and hosed it out (he had been well and truly sliced up and passed down the bypass) and then it was a management ferry to Miami for a replacement. A few of the freight (passengers) and talking freight (cabin crew) ended up in councelling for a long time and were off work for months.
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
I don't fly, but my neighbor next door is a captain for USAir. Doesn't know this guy but says they all feel he did an awesome job and saved everyone's bacon. AND went back to check twice to see everyone off. Now THAT'S a Captain! with a capital "C". And the crew did great as well. There's something also to be said for all the passengers who kept their cool, didn't freak out, did what they were told to do, and are all alive as a consequence.
 
David,

Pratt & Whitney or Rolls Royce?

Any pics?

S


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Got this earlier today;

************************************************************
NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************************
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
January 21, 2009
************************************************************
NTSB ISSUES UPDATE ON INVESTIGATION INTO DITCHING OF US
AIRWAYS JETLINER INTO HUDSON RIVER
************************************************************
In its continuing investigation of US Airways flight 1549,
which ditched into the Hudson River adjacent to Manhattan at
approximately 3:30 p.m. on January 15, 2009, the National
Transportation Safety Board has developed the following
factual information:
The right engine has been externally examined and
documented. An examination of the first stage fan blades
revealed evidence of soft body impact damage. Three of the
variable guide vanes are fractured and two are missing. The
engine's electronic control unit is missing and numerous
internal components of the engine were significantly
damaged.
What appears to be organic material was found in the right
engine and on the wings and fuselage. Samples of the
material have been provided to the United States Department
of Agriculture for a complete DNA analysis. A single
feather was found attached to a flap track on the wing. It
is being sent to bird identification experts at the
Smithsonian.
The left engine has been located in about 50 feet of water
near the area of the Hudson River where the aircraft
ditched. The NTSB is working with federal, state and local
agencies to recover the engine, which is expected to occur
sometime on Thursday.
The NTSB has learned that the right engine experienced a
surge during a flight on January 13, 2009, and that
subsequent maintenance actions included the replacement of a
temperature probe. Investigators from the NTSB's
Maintenance Records group are researching this report by
examining applicable maintenance records and procedures.
The NTSB's Survival Factors group is in the process of
interviewing passengers to learn more about the events
surrounding the ditching and the emergency evacuation and
rescue. The Operations and Human Performance group is
interviewing US Airways flight operations training
personnel.
The checked and carry-on baggage is in the process of being
removed from the aircraft. Representatives from the NTSB's
Office of Transportation Disaster Assistance are working to
coordinate efforts with US Airways to return these items to
the passengers.
The on-scene documentation of the airplane is expected to be
completed by the end of the week. Preparations are underway
to facilitate movement and more permanent storage of the
airplane so that more detailed documentation of the damage
can be performed at a later date.
###
NTSB Media Contact: Peter Knudson
(202) 314-6100
[email protected]
************************************************************
This message is delivered to you as a free service
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Mike,
point taken, I was thinking that airports routinely scare birds from the runways with load bangs and suchlike, and wondered if in this case the process had been lacking in some way. I suppose that this local method of avoiding incidents during takeoff cannot extend too far from the runway, and there is still a minimal risk during climb, especially during migratory periods of the year.
Its not only the Navy and Air Forces who use walnut shells, there are plenty of land based and offshore generating plant using aero engines, RR Avon, Olympus and RB211 when I was out there use this method for decarbonising blades.

regards
Dave
 
I flew AB320's for 6 years with AA. It is a very forgiving aircraft. However, if the incident occurred at night , the outcome would have been fatal. Going from AFR to VFR in a split second in daylight compared to night made all the difference. Due to the fact the demographics were not in his favor. Mr.Scully was VERY VERY LUCKY!!
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Mike,
I was hit in the chest on a bike while going 85+ MPH by a small bird, neatly knocked me out and I still don't know how I kept it between the ditches...

Same here, I hit a sparrow at about 70 MPH. It felt like it almost took my right shoulder off. I was bruised for weeks. I managed to keep it out of the ditches, too, but as I look back on it, I'm not quite sure how I did that.

Back on topic, that pilot is one incredible flyboy! To have managed that landing was pure genius, IMHO!

Doug
 
Got this e-mailed to me today and thought I'd share it;

The Allied Pilots Association, which represents American Airlines pilots, sent out this account Friday afternoon. Rather than repeat what the APA wrote, I'll provide it in its entirety:
The following is an exclusive account for our members from one of our pilots who was onboard US Airways Flight 1549 when the pilots made a successful emergency ditching into New York's Hudson River. First Officer Susan O'Donnell is a LGA-based 767 pilot. She resides with her family in Winnsboro, South Carolina. Susan is a former Navy pilot, hired at AA in February 1990. She has flown the 727, F100, A300 and now the 767.
The following is her account of the flight, the rescue and recovery response, as well as the support she experienced afterward. This is intended to give each of you a unique insight into the event. We also hope that the crew's tremendous effort to take care of each other and the nearly instantaneous support of USAPA and APA responders become "takeaways" for our pilots to use when faced with an emergency.
"I was a jumpseat rider seated in First Class on Flight 1549 from LGA to CLT, which successfully ditched in the Hudson River. I've been asked to share a few of my experiences on that day. Although it was a stressful incident, the successful outcome and the assistance and support I received afterwards have been truly humbling and inspirational. "After introducing myself to and being welcomed aboard by Captain Sullenberger and FO Skiles, I was offered seat 3D, an aisle seat in the last row of First Class. I was in my uniform. Another jumpseat rider took a seat in row 6. These were the last empty seats on the airplane. I wasn't paying much attention to the flight until, climbing out, there were several loud thumps occurring roughly simultaneously along both sides of the aircraft. "Bird strikes," I thought. A few seconds later, there was a bit of smoke and the stench of burning bird that seemed to confirm my guess. There was a turn to the left, and I assumed we were returning to LGA.
"The passengers were concerned but calm. I couldn't see any part of the aircraft out the window from my aisle seat. Although I didn't hear much that sounded encouraging from the engines, I expected we would have at least partial thrust with which to limp back to LGA. We rolled out of the turn, and I could tell we were not maintaining altitude. Then we heard the PA: "This is the Captain. Brace for impact."
"Obviously we weren't returning to LGA, and I could see enough out the window to realize we'd be landing in the river. The flight attendants began shouting their "brace" litanies and kept it up until touchdown. The descent seemed very controlled, and the sink rate reasonably low. I believed the impact would be violent but survivable, although I did consider the alternative. The passengers remained calm and almost completely quiet. As we approached the water, I braced by folding my arms against the seat back in front of me, then putting my head against my arms. There was a brief hard jolt, a rapid decel and we were stopped. It was much milder than I had anticipated. If the jolt had been turbulence, I would have described it as moderate. Thinking about it later on, I realized it was no worse than a carrier landing.
"After landing, the attitude of the aircraft was slightly nose high, but not far off a normal parked attitude, and there was no obvious damage to the cabin or water intrusion where I was. No one was hurt or panicked. We all stood up. I could hear the doors open and the sound of slide inflation. There was a verbal command "Evacuate;" people were already moving towards the doors. I exited through the forward right door and entered the raft. The evacuation up front was orderly and swift, and we were not in the water long before being picked up by various boats, which were extremely quick to the scene. Many passengers were standing on the wing, going from feet dry to nearly waist deep as the rescue progressed. They were of course the first to be picked up by the arriving boats. I was picked up by a large ferry boat, climbing a ladder hanging from the bow. It didn't take long to get all passengers into the boats and to the ferry terminals.
"Once at the terminal, we were met by police, firemen, paramedics, FBI, Homeland Security, the Red Cross, Mayor Bloomberg, and more. Captain Sullenberger continued in a leadership role in the aftermath, talking with the passengers, assembling his crew and including myself and the other jumpseat rider as members of his crew. I was impressed to note that he had the aircraft logbook tucked under his arm. When the Captain asked me if I wanted to join the crew at the hotel, I told him I would really appreciate it as I had lost my wallet. He immediately pulled out his wallet and gave me $20. His concern for me when he had so much else to worry about was amazing.
"The USAPA representative was on the scene very quickly, and again included the other jumpseat rider and myself with the rest of the crew. I didn't see a flight attendant representative; USAPA took care of the FAs as well. The USAPA representative escorted the entire crew to the hospital (we rode in a NYFD fire truck), where we were joined by other USAPA reps and the USAPA lawyer, all of whom continued to consider me as one of the crew. At the hospital, I had finally called the APA "in case of accident" number on the back of my ID badge for APA. I had not initially thought of that as applying to my situation, as a jumpseater on another airline, but I called anyway. I spoke with APA LGA Vice Chairman Captain Glenn Schafer, who departed immediately to come assist me.
"After a routine evaluation, they transported us by police car to a hotel, where rooms were waiting. The USAPA version of our Flight Assist was also there, and they spoke to me and offered me whatever assistance I needed, again as if I was one of their own. The USAPA reps also brought all of us some clothing and toiletries that they had purchased. Captain Schafer arrived at the hotel, bringing me some necessary items. He stayed overnight at the hotel, making flight arrangements for me to go home the next day and escorting me to the airport. Captain Mark Cronin from the AA NY Flight Office met me at the departure gate, again offering assistance and support.
"I am grateful for the many calls of concern and offers of help I have received, from fellow pilots, union representatives and the company, and I am grateful for and proud of the response and assistance of both USAPA and APA. I would hope that our union would treat another airline's crewmember as kindly as I was treated. USAirways has also been superb, treating me as if I was a paying passenger. I am also thankful for the professionalism and capabilities of Captain Sullenberger, FO Skiles and FAs Dent, Dail and Welsh. They certainly did our profession proud, and they saved my life."
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Thanks for sharing that Scott... Still a truly amazing feat..

I had posted this on another forum - but I think it's worthy to post here as well;

Randy (another forum member) and any of the other pilots on here will confirm that we are trained from the very beginning of primary training to always be planning our emergency landing strategy - even in clear calm weather. I know that my instructor literally hammered it into my head that I should be ever vigilant and always looking for my landing spot. After a while - it becomes just part of your scan of instruments and out the windows... Sulley and his co-pilot demostrated exactly what they knew. With the glide ratio they had and the altitude they had - the only real viable candidate was the Hudson river.
I'm very certain when I say that they had more than likely seen that river as a viable place to put one in (land) on many of their previous flights...
In that congested of an area - they would have more than likely lost their lives and countless other on the ground had they chosen any other scenario..

Calm and cool - all the way in - and of course a marvelous job..
 

Dave Wood

Lifetime Supporter
It seems incompatible that they would allow a wetlands sanctuary to be so close to an existing airport. Reports are that the geese population has doubled in the last 10 years and that means the chances of hitting another one go up.
I was a Crew Chief in NJ on C-141s,in the early 70s, and we were near a lake that ducks inhabited, my plane sucked in a duck on take off once and had to land immediately. What a stench, it was only 1 of the 4 engines, but protocal required returning to base. While inspecting the engine prior to removal, I found the top of the ducks skull( top of the beak and skull) still laying on the intake...but the rest had been toasted,literally. It was a little freaky, though, when I climbed up on the inspection stand and saw that little remnant, couldn't figure why that didn't get ingested too.
 

Pat Buckley

GT40s Supporter
After careful consideration, I think I am going to try and fly at night from now on.

Fewer feathered friends.
 
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