Unintended Acceleration Yesterday - GT40
- Thread starter Hoota Caroota
- Start date
Another potential problem is the alignment of the throttle blades in the throttle bodies.
When the engine is producing a lot of power there can be some deflection of all the component parts.
You might want to retorgue the manifold and throttle bodies making sure that everything is not too tight. All of this stuffs moves a little as the engine changes tempurature.
Dave
When the engine is producing a lot of power there can be some deflection of all the component parts.
You might want to retorgue the manifold and throttle bodies making sure that everything is not too tight. All of this stuffs moves a little as the engine changes tempurature.
Dave
You didn't use some Toyota parts by any chance?
+1 - I was going to mention DO NOT lubricate your cable if it is at all plastic lined (typically Teflon as mentioned above) unless you carefully select your lubricant. We had always done that on throttle cables in the Formula Fords I worked on until one stuck; we then found out that the Teflon absorbs various fluids enough to actually bind the cable.
I see lots of great suggestions here - an excellent example of a forum if I do say so myself.
I agree, Chris. This is a wonderful community.
I inspected the linkage today and found no issues. The cable travels smoothly and freely. I did not take it apart to lube it. There are no issues with the ends of the cable. The cable runs in close proximity to a cooling hose and the engine block but since my temperatures are always consistent, I can't imagine heat is an issue. The motor mounts are secure.
David, I'll check the manifold and throttle body bolts to ensure they're snug. I lubricated the linkage at the manifold already.
Again, thanks everyone for your help.
I inspected the linkage today and found no issues. The cable travels smoothly and freely. I did not take it apart to lube it. There are no issues with the ends of the cable. The cable runs in close proximity to a cooling hose and the engine block but since my temperatures are always consistent, I can't imagine heat is an issue. The motor mounts are secure.
David, I'll check the manifold and throttle body bolts to ensure they're snug. I lubricated the linkage at the manifold already.
Again, thanks everyone for your help.
:lol::lol::lol:
Took a few views before it hit me, Rick....but then I LMAO!!
Toyota floormats, perhaps???
Cheers from Doug!!!
It's not a Toyota throttle linkage is it?
"Toyota, moving you forward".....................even if you don't want to!
"Ford, because Toyota is trying to kill you"
"Toyota, like other cars.............except THEY stop!"
"Ford, because Toyota is trying to kill you"
"Toyota, like other cars.............except THEY stop!"
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Haven't your heard? Our government says Toyota's electronics are not at fault. And we all know that our government knows exactly who's at fault....
John,
I have to ask, what kind of mounts do you have? Are the solid mount or do they utilize polys? If they are polys, put a jack under the engine and see if one of the mounts move when you raise it up. One may have become unattached allowing the mount to move.
All the suggestions so far are good ones, but in order for the throttle to go to the floor, to me it seems the throttle has to be stretched causing the cable to become extended, or something caused the end attachment of the cable to be turned(you do have the circular piece don't you). Is there a chance the throttle position sensor could have caused it?? That is a stretch, but the only other thing I can think of that might have contributed to the situation.
Bill
I have to ask, what kind of mounts do you have? Are the solid mount or do they utilize polys? If they are polys, put a jack under the engine and see if one of the mounts move when you raise it up. One may have become unattached allowing the mount to move.
All the suggestions so far are good ones, but in order for the throttle to go to the floor, to me it seems the throttle has to be stretched causing the cable to become extended, or something caused the end attachment of the cable to be turned(you do have the circular piece don't you). Is there a chance the throttle position sensor could have caused it?? That is a stretch, but the only other thing I can think of that might have contributed to the situation.
Bill
I'm rethinking the pedal going to the floor. I can't understand how that could have happened even with a broken motor mount. The engine would have had to be severely displaced for that to happen. And the TPS has no mechanical link to the linkage. So perhaps I'm mistaken about the pedal going to the floor on its own. After all, I've always been skeptical of that happening so why change my ways now?
I re-torqued the manifold bolts today and lubricated the throttle cable. The manifold bolts were snug but a few went another 1/8 of a turn. The cable seemed to travel smoothly enough but I plan on ordering a new one.
I went to this site from another thread: Virtual LinkageTM from Midwest Control Products. I'm thinking of getting their Series 60 high efficiency cable. It has a nylon wrap around the steel wire. The Series 60 will tolerate bends better than a smaller cable. Any other suggestions for cables?
I re-torqued the manifold bolts today and lubricated the throttle cable. The manifold bolts were snug but a few went another 1/8 of a turn. The cable seemed to travel smoothly enough but I plan on ordering a new one.
I went to this site from another thread: Virtual LinkageTM from Midwest Control Products. I'm thinking of getting their Series 60 high efficiency cable. It has a nylon wrap around the steel wire. The Series 60 will tolerate bends better than a smaller cable. Any other suggestions for cables?
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
I highly doubt that this is a linkage issue.
Contact the manufacturer of the injection system you are using and run this by them.
You don't have cruise control by any chance?
Contact the manufacturer of the injection system you are using and run this by them.
You don't have cruise control by any chance?
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
MCP web site is VERY difficult to use. Nice folks, but their software for building a cable is impossible- very frustrating. You might do better to call them.
I have a MCP cable that we didn't use, which might work for you- it was too long, once we changed from Holley to Webers. PM me, if it will work you can have it for the shipping expense alone. Come to think of it, I'll send YOU a PM.
I have a MCP cable that we didn't use, which might work for you- it was too long, once we changed from Holley to Webers. PM me, if it will work you can have it for the shipping expense alone. Come to think of it, I'll send YOU a PM.
So here's what I think REALLY happened.
I was passing the Datsun at a relatively high speed, the rpms were high and I was accelerating. There was a right hander coming up. When I got next to the Datsun, I understood that I didn't need to accelerate any more, that the speed I was carrying was enough. So I very lightly lifted on the accelerator to maintain speed and rpm.
But the pedal didn't move. It was stuck. In my surprise, instead of realizing the logical sequence of events, it felt like the pedal went to the floor especially when I lifted my foot completely. Thus, in spite of my embarrassment over my poor and inaccurate reporting of events when starting this thread, I can remain secure in my judgmental beliefs about unintended acceleration rockonsmile
As for the other issues, I detected a little bit of stickiness in the throttle linkage at the pedal. When I took it completely apart, I found a scarred bushing where the linkage connects the pedal to the cable. After replacing the bushing, the pivot there is now much more free than it was before. I think that is what caused the pedal to stick.
On a very short drive yesterday, I believe I found a path toward solving the mystery of the power loss that was accompanied by screeching noise. The drive was very short yesterday because a mile and a half away from my house, the engine abruptly quit. When I tried to start it, the engine backfired through the velocity stacks and turned over hesitatingly.
I'm thinking the screeching noise may have come from the distributor as it was malfunctioning somehow. Yesterday, it abruptly went out.
How does that sound to y'all?
I was passing the Datsun at a relatively high speed, the rpms were high and I was accelerating. There was a right hander coming up. When I got next to the Datsun, I understood that I didn't need to accelerate any more, that the speed I was carrying was enough. So I very lightly lifted on the accelerator to maintain speed and rpm.
But the pedal didn't move. It was stuck. In my surprise, instead of realizing the logical sequence of events, it felt like the pedal went to the floor especially when I lifted my foot completely. Thus, in spite of my embarrassment over my poor and inaccurate reporting of events when starting this thread, I can remain secure in my judgmental beliefs about unintended acceleration rockonsmile
As for the other issues, I detected a little bit of stickiness in the throttle linkage at the pedal. When I took it completely apart, I found a scarred bushing where the linkage connects the pedal to the cable. After replacing the bushing, the pivot there is now much more free than it was before. I think that is what caused the pedal to stick.
On a very short drive yesterday, I believe I found a path toward solving the mystery of the power loss that was accompanied by screeching noise. The drive was very short yesterday because a mile and a half away from my house, the engine abruptly quit. When I tried to start it, the engine backfired through the velocity stacks and turned over hesitatingly.
I'm thinking the screeching noise may have come from the distributor as it was malfunctioning somehow. Yesterday, it abruptly went out.
How does that sound to y'all?
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Good for you on the honesty!
That sounds plausible.
That sounds plausible.
Drift - but interesting.
<B><BIG>How the hysteria over Toyota's tribulations spiralled out of control</BIG></B>
<SMALL>Stephen Foley - The Independent - 12th February 2011</SMALL>
Call it "The $5bn Injustice". For the best part of two years, Toyota has been fighting a tide of innuendo about the safety of its cars.
It has had to contend with crackpots and fraudsters on the evening news, the political theatrics of Congressional hearings and selective quotations from subpoenaed documents, plus an internet mob in full cry.
And this week, the best scientists in the world confirmed what the Japanese car maker has been saying over and over: there is nothing wrong with the electronics of its vehicles. Those terrifying cases of "unintended acceleration", where cars were said to have raced out of control, for the most part had a very prosaic cause: drivers were holding down the accelerator.
The story of how a few genuine cases, caused mainly by ill-fitting floor mats that slipped over the accelerator pedal, which were fixed by Toyota in a series of recalls beginning in 2008, turned into a circus of ever-more exaggerated claims should terrify every executive of a major company. The unreasonableness and extremism that we often decry in US political debate is just as prevalent when it comes to business.
The reasons are hardly a secret. There are more rolling-news minutes than there are experts to fill them. The imperative to "move the story on" entails speculating about worst-case scenarios. Two-bit science is elevated and indistinguishable from more informed discussion. There is no mileage for a blogger in accepting the scientific consensus. No clicks on a headline that says, "Don't panic". Website comment sections fill up with cynicism and anti-corporate invective.
It is part of a wider, more philosophical problem. We are conditioned to believe that cleverness lies in seeing through the statements of a corporation or a government, to a truth they are trying to obscure; our whole mode of thought means we don't listen to what anyone says any more, we go straight on to asking why they might be saying it. To simply accept something at face value? How dumb!
The impact on Toyota's market share has been profound. Its sales in the US fell 0.4 per cent last year, while the industry as a whole rose 11 per cent. Earlier this month, a consulting firm called Interbrand calculated that the value of the Toyota brand had slumped 16 per cent, almost $5bn, in the past year.
The US government of course did find flaws with Toyota's procedures for the timely reporting of safety issues to regulators but, absent the level of hysteria, it is unlikely these would have led to the $48.8m in fines that Toyota eventually agreed to pay.
I have been struck by the parallels with the reaction to the BP oil spill last year. Without in any way dismissing the massive economic and environmental cost of the spill, the amount of two-bit science being peddled during the outcry was very depressing. Remember those two chaps demonstrating how you could soak up oil in their kitchen saucepans, using just a bale of hay? Remember the hunt for those imagined plumes of oil, before it turned out the spill was dispersing naturally? In the end, one of the most profound scientific statements during that crisis was Tony Hayward's, when he said: "The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean."
Even this week, the report of Nasa scientists wasn't good enough for some of Toyota's critics. Steve Berman, attorney for some of the purported victims of "unintended acceleration" and presumably not himself a rocket scientist, immediately began critiquing the methodology of the study and signalled his legal fight will go on.
In the cacophony of modern communication, from mainstream media to the raised voices of everyone on the internet, we must strain to hear the real experts – but it is getting harder. For executives, this is a terrifying new reality. The modern crowd, like markets, can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John McL
<B><BIG>How the hysteria over Toyota's tribulations spiralled out of control</BIG></B>
<SMALL>Stephen Foley - The Independent - 12th February 2011</SMALL>
Call it "The $5bn Injustice". For the best part of two years, Toyota has been fighting a tide of innuendo about the safety of its cars.
It has had to contend with crackpots and fraudsters on the evening news, the political theatrics of Congressional hearings and selective quotations from subpoenaed documents, plus an internet mob in full cry.
And this week, the best scientists in the world confirmed what the Japanese car maker has been saying over and over: there is nothing wrong with the electronics of its vehicles. Those terrifying cases of "unintended acceleration", where cars were said to have raced out of control, for the most part had a very prosaic cause: drivers were holding down the accelerator.
The story of how a few genuine cases, caused mainly by ill-fitting floor mats that slipped over the accelerator pedal, which were fixed by Toyota in a series of recalls beginning in 2008, turned into a circus of ever-more exaggerated claims should terrify every executive of a major company. The unreasonableness and extremism that we often decry in US political debate is just as prevalent when it comes to business.
The reasons are hardly a secret. There are more rolling-news minutes than there are experts to fill them. The imperative to "move the story on" entails speculating about worst-case scenarios. Two-bit science is elevated and indistinguishable from more informed discussion. There is no mileage for a blogger in accepting the scientific consensus. No clicks on a headline that says, "Don't panic". Website comment sections fill up with cynicism and anti-corporate invective.
It is part of a wider, more philosophical problem. We are conditioned to believe that cleverness lies in seeing through the statements of a corporation or a government, to a truth they are trying to obscure; our whole mode of thought means we don't listen to what anyone says any more, we go straight on to asking why they might be saying it. To simply accept something at face value? How dumb!
The impact on Toyota's market share has been profound. Its sales in the US fell 0.4 per cent last year, while the industry as a whole rose 11 per cent. Earlier this month, a consulting firm called Interbrand calculated that the value of the Toyota brand had slumped 16 per cent, almost $5bn, in the past year.
The US government of course did find flaws with Toyota's procedures for the timely reporting of safety issues to regulators but, absent the level of hysteria, it is unlikely these would have led to the $48.8m in fines that Toyota eventually agreed to pay.
I have been struck by the parallels with the reaction to the BP oil spill last year. Without in any way dismissing the massive economic and environmental cost of the spill, the amount of two-bit science being peddled during the outcry was very depressing. Remember those two chaps demonstrating how you could soak up oil in their kitchen saucepans, using just a bale of hay? Remember the hunt for those imagined plumes of oil, before it turned out the spill was dispersing naturally? In the end, one of the most profound scientific statements during that crisis was Tony Hayward's, when he said: "The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean."
Even this week, the report of Nasa scientists wasn't good enough for some of Toyota's critics. Steve Berman, attorney for some of the purported victims of "unintended acceleration" and presumably not himself a rocket scientist, immediately began critiquing the methodology of the study and signalled his legal fight will go on.
In the cacophony of modern communication, from mainstream media to the raised voices of everyone on the internet, we must strain to hear the real experts – but it is getting harder. For executives, this is a terrifying new reality. The modern crowd, like markets, can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John McL
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