Wanting to build acurate replica from scratch, resource help

I am new to this forum and was hoping someone might be able to point me to some resources for building a period correct GT40 replica. After much soul searching I've decided that I want this to be the long term project I have been trying to settle on. With two kids time and money aren't what they were, but having done other major car projects in the past I just can't stay sane without SOMETHING to build!

I'm reasonably skilled at fabrication and engine work and think it would be fantastic to try and build the car from scratch... outside of the body pannels. I'm also skilled in AutoCAD and 3D modeling and will use this to layout my attack. To get started, I could probably reverse engineer the chassis using acurate body and some good photos of the original frame but would be thrilled to death if someone has a drawing on the frame!

Outside of that if there is somewhere that lists more details on the drivetrain, brakes and such so I could start trying to collect the parts and rebuild them that would be great.

I am searching archives now and trying to gather all the above information together on my own, but why reinvent the wheel if someone has done the research.

Last question, where is a place to reasonably source the body pannels? I am most concerned about accuracy, and will not try and save a buck by getting something "close". I'm sure many of the companys won't sell the alone, and could use a little guidance so I'm not bothering the vendors out there.

I know I'm new to this forum, and I'm asking a lot of questions which is always iritating. However I'm not new to forums and will give back in droves. I will document everything I do and will share any drawings I make. I'm very realistic about projects of this nature and never fail to see a dream through to reality, although this one will be the longest yet! Thanks in advance for any help that might be given.

-Q

 

Re: Wanting to build acurate replica from scratch, resource

Hi Chuck,

I too am fairly new to these forums and I am currently in the research stages myself, but I think I am a few steps ahead of you. I'll try and answer some of your questions as best I can but you will find there are people on this forum with both the knowledge and the kindness of heart to willingly share it as well.

Firstly you ask about the chassis drawings, well in my car came with an old KVA chassis which is not good enough so I've searched for chassis suppliers and thought about building my own. Whilst searching the good old www I came across a company in Australia that have the original GT40 chassis drawings in AutoCAD format. I think they were asking for a couple of hundred Australian dollars for them, so if you do a quick search you might find them yourself. I can't vouch for the accuracy of these but it would be a good start. I also have access to one of the original seven GT40 MkIII's that was built, so if I can get any information from that let me know. I have a post in the gallery with a few pictures, but I have a lot more so if any of these will be of use to you let me know.

Your second question might cause you more problems since you are going for accuracy. I also wanted to build a car as accurate to the original as possible but have found that it's not going to be that easy due to the legal requirement for safety meaning some things just aren't allowed. Also mechanically these vehicles are in the dark ages compared to the new parts you can buy now and most kits are designed better suspension and so on, but again I am still researching all this myself and someone out there might be able to offer you more help.

Lastly as to body panels, my kit was a barn find of a KVA MkIII and has an interesting collection of panels. They were moulded from an original car so are as accurate as you are going to get. I assume you are going to build a MkI or MkII as most people do and most of the suppliers of these have created their panels in the same way you should be pretty close, but just ask them when you contact them they will tell you how they got the moulds. You ask if they will supply just the panels to you, well mine is missing the sills and I've contacted Tornado a kit manufacturer here in the UK and they are happy to sell me any parts to marry up to my existing set so I don’t think you will have any problems there.

Sorry to go on but I am a few months ahead of you and recognise your post where you have so many questions you don't know where to start, as that was where I was a few months ago. As I have said I am still new to this myself but you will get lots of help from here if you are asking sensible questions.

I wish you well with your project!

IainB

If you think training is expensive, look at the cost of ignorance.

 

[Ingvar Öhlund]

Hello
Seems that only in sweden there are at least 2 companys that claims to make identical to early mk 1 chassie and body parts. To make complete drawings of all included parts once more is like inventing the wheel again, talk to these companys that already done all that work.
Link 1: www.autoart.net wellknown in this forum however they seems to lost speed in making parts available
Link 2: www.sportscar.se has what I can see a nearly complete monocoque in steel, claims they have made parts for ten duplicates that are for sale.
The owner says that their gt40 is an exact duplicate of an existing original gt40 and that all the parts they make will fit an original car.
regards
ingvar

 

[Ron Earp]

I believe that is Goran who sometimes posts on this forum from time to time. Not sure, but the pictures look familar.

Ron

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Lots of folks claim to make an accurate monocoque chassis. An interesting idea, as there are a lot of forms of the "original" GT40 monocoque. Over the years that this forum has been active, we have seen a few builders coms and go. And, a few come and stay, fortunately. If you will send me a private email/message, I'll give you some suggestions based on my experience having a Mark I monocoque built. As in: what worked well for me and what did not. There are also a few folks who are scratch-building proper monocoques themselves, a huge labor, who can possibly be of help to you.

 

[Mike Dozier]

Chuck

Suggest you take a close look at an original GT40 chasssis.
A truly "correct" requires lots more than "reasonable" fabrication skills not to mention some pretty large tooling.
Even the original chassis builders had to make a
simpler chassis for the MK V continuation series.

MikeD

 

[JimmyMac]

Chuck,
Wouldn't we all ?
Good luck, but might I suggest that you will require more backbone than wishbone for this task.
Two kids with limited time, skills and particularly hard earned cash (your estimate) will definitely not get you there.

Press tooling, equipment and research time for a "one off" will cost you more than a fresh chassis from one the top fabricators so if it was me, I would personally go for one of these.
Check out the labour costs of repairing an original car to give you an idea of the magnitude of your proposal. Then try to find costs and reliable sources for those original parts before you proceed.

I wish you all the best so let us know how you get on.

PS - Would you be thinking that original cars are simple tube space frame builds ?

 

Monocoque vs Space Frame

Actually, yes I did think that the GT40 had a space frame but have obviously learned otherwise since my post! I guess I'll go ahead and plead further ignorance and state that I'm not entirely sure what a monocoque is. I have yet to find any good chassis photos of an origonal and what I have seen looked like a tube frame clad in sheet metal. Can you please help me understand the difference?

I was planning on having a large shop make any complicated bends or such. I work supplying parts for electric power plants and have a lot of good fabrication/machine contacts. It sounds like it might be more complicated than that however. I just couldn't see spending 10-20k for a chassis when I believed I could get the raw and fabricated parts to make my own for a lot less!

-Q

 

[Tim Kay]

Re: Monocoque vs Space Frame

Chuck,

Click here for a tour of a restoration /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Re: Monocoque vs Space Frame

Chuck,
Check out CCD chassis from a month or so back on the All GT40 forum. There are a few pix of a mono being built here in NZ.

Cheers,

Brian.

 

[Mike Dozier]

Re: Monocoque vs Space Frame

Chuck

You are correct..."simple" space frame chassis are not difficult to make (compared to monocoque), and quite cost effective if you or a friend have the ability to fabricate a chassis. However there is no "standard" GT40 frame design.

One of the reasons chassis plans are not sold
by replica companies (besides liability)
is the time they've sunk in developing them to accomodate
their particular gas tanks,suspension geometery, body mounting system,
transaxles, etc. Furthermore there is the cost of jigs,
drawings, templates, etc to maintain consistent quality.

If you check the cost of BASIC kits from most of those
that participate on this Forum, I think you'll find the
chassis/body combo's sell for a reasonable amount
considering these factors. Of course the price tag adds
quickly when you toss in freight, taxes, and the lengthy
list of parts needed to finish the project.

If you are REALLY ambitious, REALLY resourceful, and have
a LOT of time ....you can purchse the body only
from Chris Melia (and maybe other suppliers),
and build your own frame to fit whatever body/suspension/
gas tank/ etc etc you want to use. Whether it will be
cost effective is hard to say. And when do you want to complete the project? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?
Self DESIGNED cars are not the same as self BUILT cars.
Good luck.

MikeD

 

[JimmyMac]

Re: Monocoque vs Space Frame

Chuck,
You are at the right place if you decide to go for a fabricated frame chassis.
There a plenty of guys on this forum who have done exactly that.
Good fortune with your decisions.

 

Thanks to all

Sorry for the slow reply. I hurt my back bad and have been stuck in bed for a while now. I'm up and about again so I'm finally getting around to reading this.

I was planning on 5-10 years on the project. I'll have to kick around building my own chassis a bit more. I have the skill and time, but it seems like I would need a break and bender in addition to other normal fabrication tools. That would certainly ad to the cost, and obviously I could shave a lot of time off the project by buying a chassis complate. Likewise, it takes a long time to save up the money so I might not save THAT much time and I would have the satisfaction of designing and building it myself and some nice new tools that would be useful. On the upside, saw a black GT-40 on the road yesterday for the first time ever! It's weird that just as I'm considering it, one shows up. That's got to be a sign! ;-)

-Q

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Re: Thanks to all

Chuck,

To build a monocoque from scratch is going to take considerably more than a brake, shear and normal fabrication tools. There are several "homebuilt" monocoque projects that are more or less chronicled on the forum that will provide a bit more realistic appraisal of what is needed and involved to accomplish this.

By their very nature the chassis are probably the only part of a GT40 that one can consider as standardized. However, every lofted chassis drawing set, that I know of, has had to be hand entered and debugged. To my knowledge there are no original blue prints to be had in the public domain or for any amount of money. The people who have done this have put countless hours into taking measurements, entering data into a CAD program, double checking the veracity of their assumptions and coercing the information into a workable form. To expect one of these people to give you the fruits of, literally, years of work is not reasonable. You could easily spend your alloted time frame in reproducing the efforts that a precious few have achieved in a complete and quality set of drawings. Nor am I certain that you could purchase the CAD drawings at any price. (But, we all know the old saw, "Money talks and bull___ walks" I am not saying that you don't have the skill and resources to accomplish this (how could I based on a few posts on the forum), but I do want you to have a realistic expectation of what is required to accomplish this lofty goal.

In terms of the rest of the car and your goal of originality, as has been alluded to before, good luck on determining exactly what this is. At best, it will be a compromise as there is no single standardized form of an "original GT40." Hell, even the name, GT40, is not standardized and is a nick-name that just caught on. In the end, you will have to decide for yourself what original means. There are some, especially some of the guys from England, who can get you very close to a definition/description of what an original GT40 is, but the fact is that these cars were purpose built race cars that customers then took and finalized as they saw fit. Most use the format of the cars as setup by John Weir's organization as their definition of how an original GT40 should be sorted. But there was evolution in JW's designs as well.

Chuck, your goals are admirable and a logical way to start a project of the nature you envision. I don't mean to dissuade you one iota, but I do truly believe that you will have a much more satisfying experience if you can temper your plans with a touch of reality. More power to you if you decide to go forward with a scratch built, I would be more than happy to discuss alternatives with you, if you decide to consider alternatives. And, as mentioned before, there are alternatives today that did not even exist 6+ years ago when I finally decided on a GT40 replica as my pasttime.

Regards,
Lynn

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Re: Thanks to all

Chuck,
A fellow Ford employee buolt his own mono. You can see pictures here: http://www.dariusrudis.com/jdunham

Brett

 

[Chris P.]

Re: Thanks to all

Wow - beautiful looking work. Did he hand form all those pieces?

 

[John W]

Re: Thanks to all

Nice post Brett.

It looks to be very close to the original, but not spot on. For a start its wrong hand drive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
A fine effort though.

What is the transaxle shoen in some of the pics - doesn't look like a T44 or a ZF to me...

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Re: Thanks to all

Gents..
Jim Dunham is buildng this car, he is a great guy and lives abour 45 mins from me.

He has done everything by hand.
He did not intend it to be a perfect recreation as he has added numerous upgrades with a more recent engineering approach.
He is also 6'4" and needs the extra leg and headroom that he has built in.
The trans axle is a replica of a ZF built by AMC many years ago for a mid engined project that stalled...