When THEY Run Everything.

[Keith]

I can't remember this episode resonating much over here but I think I do remember that this came across (at least in our media) as essentially a 'black-op' with deniability with little or no overt support from the administration of the day. It was only later, via Cuban emigres, that the whole story of 'betrayal' came out.

I don't also believe that BOP damaged Kennedy's rep too much over here either, but it certainly wasn't his finest hour, in hindsight.

I liked the guy, but the family (Jack Snr) was not a favourite in the UK after announcing that 'Britain was finished' after a few bombs fell on London in WWII and woke him up. I guess it was the Irish connection that motivated him towards Anglo-phobia and also that dullard Edward a little later in life.

 

[Jeff Young]

Kennedy Sr. was basically a closet Nazi who was sympathetic to Hitler prior to the start of WWII.

The Bay of PIgs was a complicated mess and of course Lonesome only sees it through a partisan prism.

It was basically a CIA backed operation with the CIA providing ships and planes to the Cuban exile army. THere was never an explicity promise of direct US military support that I am aware of.

The invasion went poorly from the start wiht Castro's forces greatly outnumbering the exiles. When things went badly for the exiles, the CIA asked Kennedy to provide direct US air support and Kennedy refused fearing the Soviet reaction.

 

[John Milmont]

Jeff, what are your overall views of JFK? What do you think of his policies? Do you think he was a good president?

 

[Jeff Young]

I think he was a flawed human being who was extremely good at laying out a vision for the country and getting the people to buy into it. The New Frontier and the space program were far reaching goals, some of which we achieved and some we didn't. But he inspired us to try.

On the foreign policy side, many mistakes (Cuba, Vietnam) and many successes (Cuban Missile Crisis). Domestically, the war on orgaized crime doesn't get the press it should, and he continued to advance the Civil Rights ball.

Again, probably a much better inspirer than actual President, and certainly a very flawed man. Overall, probably a B-B+ President.

 

[Keith]

Of course, all his peccadilloes came to light long after his demise, but he was certainly popular in Europe if only for his relaxed charm and confident oratory. On balance, his reputation over here, at least remains relatively untarnished.

There is no doubt his finest hour was the Cuban Missile Crisis..

The People like tough guys...

 

[John Milmont]

I think this part of Kennedy is often overlooked:

JFK:"The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system; and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963. I am not talking about a 'quickie' or a temporary tax cut, which would be more appropriate if a recession were imminent. Nor am I talking about giving the economy a mere shot in the arm, to ease some temporary complaint. I am talking about the accumulated evidence of the last 5 years that our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking."

-taken from wikipedia.

 

[Bob Fechter]

I still believe that the Mafia killed the Kennedys. We know that the Mafia gave Illinois to Kennedy in the presidential election.

Jack appoints Bobby as his Attorney General, and Bobby starts prosecuting the Mafia! Next thing you know, Jack and Bobby are shot dead.

 

[Larry L.]

I think this part of Kennedy is often overlooked:

JFK:"The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system; and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963. I am not talking about a 'quickie' or a temporary tax cut, which would be more appropriate if a recession were imminent. Nor am I talking about giving the economy a mere shot in the arm, to ease some temporary complaint. I am talking about the accumulated evidence of the last 5 years that our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking."

-taken from wikipedia.

...and do you recall the HISSY FIT Teddy Kennedy launched into after the above quote was cited when arguing for the "Reagan Tax Cuts" back in the '80s? He was ALL bent out of shape over it.

 

[Bob Fechter]

...and do you recall the HISSY FIT Teddy Kennedy launched into after the above quote was cited when arguing for the "Reagan Tax Cuts" back in the '80s? He was ALL bent out of shape over it.

The Kennedy family actually sued Bush for using some Kennedy quotes on tax cuts when he ran. They called his public speeches "intellectual property."

 

[Jeff Young]

Overlooked? Most everyone I know is very aware of Kennedy's tax cuts.

Question before we begin a discussion on this: do you know what the top rates were in the 1962?

The relevancy of this quote to tax rates in the 33-38% range is wishful thinking.

But take a stab at the quesiton. No wikipedia! lol

I think this part of Kennedy is often overlooked:

JFK:"The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system; and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963. I am not talking about a 'quickie' or a temporary tax cut, which would be more appropriate if a recession were imminent. Nor am I talking about giving the economy a mere shot in the arm, to ease some temporary complaint. I am talking about the accumulated evidence of the last 5 years that our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking."

-taken from wikipedia.

 

[Larry L.]

The Kennedy family actually sued Bush for using some Kennedy quotes on tax cuts when he ran. They called his public speeches "intellectual property."

Libs don't like it when their own words are used to support a GOP position, do they.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Libs don't like it when their own words are used to support a GOP position, do they.

They don't like much of anything they can't control.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Don't quit now, Mayor Bing, collectivism just hasn't had a fair chance yet!

" Bing tried to turn around a city that has been losing population and sinking into an ever-deeper economic hole for decades, with a City Council resistant to his plans for radical changes to save Detroit and the looming prospect of the Republican governor appointing an emergency economic manager who would effectively take control of the city’s finances from its elected officials. When Governor Rick Snyder in March ended months of deliberation by appointing Kevyn Orr emergency manager, with sweeping powers to modify contracts and sell city assets, Bing, whose frustrations had been mounting, had enough."


Detroit Mayor Calls It In

 

[Larry L.]

The relevancy of this quote to tax rates in the 33-38% range is wishful thinking.

'Hoisting another canard, sir.

Lowering the tax rates WORKED when Kennedy, Reagan, AND Bush 43 did it. In each case govt's revenue went UP. "Relevancy" to this-or-that tax rate chart in this-or-that year is just a red herring, a distraction, a redirection.

 

[Jeff Young]

If you don't think there is any difference in the analysis of whether tax rates of 90% should be lowered versus 38%, you are nuts.

Whether the tax cuts increased revenue is a dubious proposition, and in the cases of REagan and Bush propelled us into HUGE deficits and debt.

Effect of the Reagan, Kennedy, and Bush Tax Cuts

Ain't no distraciton there. Thems the facts. Nutjobs have trouble with facts.

 

[Larry L.]

Nutjobs have trouble with facts.

...I've noticed.

Whether the tax cuts increased revenue is a dubious proposition, and in the cases of REagan and Bush propelled us into HUGE deficits and debt

It matters NOT how much extra money tax cuts bring in if congress chooses to spend more.

 

[Pat]

We're living in "good times" right now. Remember we were promised that more government spending would create jobs, rebound the economy and make everyone love one another. If government spending was the solution these would be the best times in history, no bankrupt cities, no massive ACTUAL unemployment, college grads would actually find jobs.

Some complain about the deficits under Bush and Regan but refuse to criticize the current administration that doubled down on the same deficits they fuss about. I agree with them though, Mr. Bush was a progressive who spent too much money. His tax increases were simulative but it’s immaterial if the government spends vastly more than it takes in.
The government has now gotten itself hooked on vast money printing that is beyond the point of no return. The Federal debt is now so large that if interest rates just go up a point or two, the budget impact to service the national debt will devastate the economy. Whoever follows Mr. Obama is going to have one hell of a mess on their hands. They are going to be left with public entitlement obligations, debt service, inflation and growing world conflict. I hope Mrs. Clinton is up to the task. Apparently previous President Bush was directly and personally accountable for everything and the current administration is responsible for NOTHING...
Larry you are absolutely right, it's the spending, the waste and as Mr. Obama's advisor Mr. Axelrod said yesterday. “Part of being president is there’s so much underneath you because the government is so vast,” he added. “You go through these [controversies] all because of this stuff that is impossible to know if you’re the president or working in the White House, and yet you’re responsible for it and it’s a difficult situation.” But somehow the evil genius Mr. Bush was able to control it all and cause the oceans to rise, the Arab World to hate us, the economy to fail and poor Mr. Obama, the "smartest president in history" can only helplessly watch in despair. But I’m sure he’ll get to the bottom of it and “hold those responsible” like Fast and Furious, the White House security leaks, Bengasi massacre , the IRS political persecutions… et all.
Yeah... right.

Note to the IRS reading this, my name is really Lord Voldemort and I really could use an audit....

 

[John Milmont]

There's talk about the EPA doing the same kind of stuff that the IRS has been doing...

 

[Jack]

Just wait until they enforce obummercare...do they really need shotguns?

While I’m annoyed that the IRS is purchasing MORE guns on its own, something else stands out that makes me even MORE pissed off at this purchase.

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) intends to purchase sixty Remington Model 870 Police RAMAC #24587 12 gauge pump-action shotguns for the Criminal Investigation Division. The Remington parkerized shotguns, with fourteen inch barrel, modified choke, Wilson Combat Ghost Ring rear sight and XS4 Contour Bead front sight, Knoxx Reduced Recoil Adjustable Stock, and Speedfeed ribbed black forend, are designated as the only shotguns authorized for IRS duty based on compatibility with IRS existing shotgun inventory, certified armorer and combat training and protocol, maintenance, and parts.
​

Notice I highlighted the barrel length. The IRS wants 14-inch barrels – something we’re not allowed to carry as everyday citizens. According the National Firearms Act, shotguns with barrel lengths of less than 18 inches are legislated out of our of our possession. I missed the part of the second amendment that prohibits so-called “short barreled shotguns.” Yet, the federal government…no, the INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE is allowed to possess them. They are not even a militia or military department, yet seem to be immune from the same laws you and I are forced to abide by by such silly laws.
So tell me: what does the IRS need with “illegal” shotguns, besides intimidating the populace into oblivion? In 1998, the IRS vowed to become more taxpayer friendly. They then ordered $1.2 million in pistols and shotguns for their “customer service representatives.” Now, they’re purchasing more firearms with top of the line sights and specs. Most likely, to better serve you, right?

 

[Mark]

I'm with Pat, not that anyone cares