Why?

[Grant S]

Tom
The pride of ownership for someone who has built he's own can't be explained to someone who goes out and buy's he's hearts desire without having put some sweat into it. Somethings you just can't buy, Pride, accomplishment, knowledge are had by doing. Having experience does make things easier, but you only get it by doing it. This is an expensive hobby so be prepared, if you don't have a lot of money you'll need a lot of time, and if you don't have a lot of time, better have a rich wife

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...unless you're a great fabricator or willing to settle, you better be prepared to have a vacuum cleaner attached to your wallet...

Ohhh, I don't like hearing that at all. You get to be a great fabricator by starting out as a poor one, and that learning experience is fun and supremely satisfying.

I think that seeing my own fabrication skill improvement manifested right there on the car is probably the single most satisfying experience of the whole process. Well, OK, there is the starting it up and driving it....

 

[John Ross]

I thought I would therefore put the question out to those of you who have already built or are building/awaiting building your SLC, GT40, Cobra, or what have you - what drove you to make that decision and have you been glad you did so? Any regrets?

Short answer: Because life is not a dress rehearsal.

To some of us, there is an inexplicable satisfaction that comes from building something that is different (maybe a little different, maybe a LOT) from the other stuff out there.

I think I see some people here (who it appears haven't ever built anything more complicated than a bird feeder) agonizing over the issue of whether they will get in over their heads, either mechanically or financially, or both.

On the mechanical side, the RCR/Superlite product line appears to require minimal actual fabrication, and I would be confident that for anything that's beyond your current ability, there are probably a bunch of local people with the required expertise that would be willing to help you out for minimal to no recompense. We're talking cool cars here!

As to the financial issue, I've always chosen projects I could easily afford at the time. At age 8 it was model rockets that could be built for a dollar. At age 14 (1971) it was a "dune buggy" which started life as a 1957 Ford station wagon bought for $75. At age 19 it was a .50 BMG shoulder rifle where the materials cost was $550. At 20 it was a much better .50 rifle that cost double that. At 22 it was a single place airplane with 20 HP that I had $4000 invested in. At 31 it was a streetbike on a Lawwil dirttrack frame with a 110 HP XR1000 motor. At 33 it was a "naked" GSXR750 frame with a 210 HP (pump gas) 1452cc motor. At 34 it was a standard style (not cruiser) motorcycle with a 350 HP small-block Chevy engine in it. At 49 it was a redesign of the Smith & Wesson .500 that the factory put into limited production for me. Today it's RCR/Superlite products.

Don't choose a build that might cause the bank to foreclose on your house. But if you have a secure income, savings, and maybe some things sitting around you aren't using that you can sell off, go for it!

Life is NOT a dress rehearsal...

JR

 

[marc]

Regret is a painful reminder that lifes short. I have waited since I was 16, to be in a position to do so (girls were more the priority back then.) 48 I pulled the trigger and while work and time are against me I continue, enjoying every minute.

 

[Tom]

I can definitely understand the pride in something you've done yourself. With my bikes, it even goes to another level, I need to have total trust in that equipment. This goes especially for wheels. I can't be concerned my wheels won't hold up as I'm cornering at 50 on a local mountain.

It's a little different with a car from a factory, which is built by trained/qualified people, inspected multiple times, and regulated by various laws and agencies. With bikes, you may be trusting your life to something the stoned local shop rat who makes $10/hr put together and he was having a bad day and didn't quite take the time to do it right. There's no requirement for his work to be checked/verified.

 

[Justin]

I had the choice of either financing a Viper (used gen 3), or having an SL Razor built (while I was deployed). I figured, the Vipers will always be available, but the Razor (at that time, SLR) won't be. In many ways, I'm really glad I didnt settle with the Viper. As much as I love those cars, there's nothing better than driving a custom built dream car like the Razor.

I've had my fun in the Razor, and now I want to move onto something either really classy (D Type) or something outrageous (SLC... Maybe SLC Le Mans). I just don't know yet.

 

[Ken Mason]

I have been rather passively hovering around this forum and absorbing whatever I can from all the experience the people here have so graciously shared. I hope that you all know and realize how rare this quality really is. I have been taking notes from your posts and have assembled quite a large volume of material to help me with my project and to help me address significant questions to Fran when I travel to his facility to place my order.
Having come from a family of journeymen craftsmen, I have seen the old "guildsman' mentality which leans toward the "Let them learn the hard way....I did" attitude. Journeymen guard their most special secrets very dearly and share them rarely. Now, after having started and sustained number of businessess for many years...including building custom showcars, custom painting, designing and building custom furniture, I am considering an SLC as a retirement project...a gift to myself. I have long ago , by necessity, conquered the jitters that unfamiliarity brings and learned that if you do not or cannot enjoy the process of such projects, you are doomed to indescribable frustration and anxiety.
The question of why is really an outgrowth of insecurity....a reason not to do rather than take risk and try. If money is a serious issue....that is an automatic limit.....nobody in his right mind is going to deny his family just for the sake of satisfying a personal dream. If money is not a prohibitive issue, then usually the decision to undertake a task is the hardest part....once you have decided to roll up your sleeves, you will almost ALWAYS be surprised by just how deep your abilities run. You will always learn something valuable in the process...especially about yourself. In addition to that (and most importantly in my mind), you have here a resource of people who are true journeymen...who have learned the hard way, who have a lot of pride in this process and genuinely want to help you succeed. This is an asset of inestimable value.
I heartily agree with Fran....he has set in place here a mechanism which is designed to calm your fears and help you realize your dream. WHY NOT go for it?

 

[Justin]

And another thing I want to add. I took a bunch of test drives this last week (between biology and math classes....). I tested an 07 Z06, an 05 Viper, and a new Shelby GT500. Every car had their pros and cons, but it ultimately led me to a conclusion.

My next "fun" car will be another RCR. Unfortunately, I have a couple more years of school. Until then, I'm going to enjoy my Razor (unless I get a reasonable offer).

 

[Avery]

I like many have hovered the car blogs for years studying and wanting to build something unique that is awesome, and nobody has, much less seen. At first, and for a couple of years i thought my car was the Ultima Can-am, until I saw the pic of the Le Mans. Love at first sight.

Today, I took the first step of contacting Delynn and placing my name on a wait list for a 960ss Griffin Gearbox. Next step, is flying to see Fran and visiting the shop and soon thereafter placing my order for the Le Mans. I feel like a kid at Disney World for the first time!!

 

[John Ross]

Today, I took the first step of contacting Delynn and placing my name on a wait list for a 960ss Griffin Gearbox.

What did he tell you was the current delivery estimate? Did he say how many units were ahead of yours?

JR

 

[Tom]

A few conclusions I've come to about my own plans:

1. It can't be a bottomless money pit. Budget to go from start to complete as a more or less DD will be strictly cut off in the $30-35K range.
2. It can't be an endless project that never gets done. I know the being self-built, there will always be something to tweak or fix, but it's got to be done for the most part in a reasonable amount of time (guessing here, but maybe <1 year?).
3. I'm not willing to compromise in terms of quality and completeness of my work. No glaring cut corners or cobbled together looking aspects.

 

[Justin]

A few conclusions I've come to about my own plans:

1. It can't be a bottomless money pit. Budget to go from start to complete as a more or less DD will be strictly cut off in the $30-35K range.

Is this price before or after you purchase a kit? My Razor was within that price range, just to give you an idea.

 

[Merim]

Great topic! There are some great responses in here already about this topic, and it's good to hear the different perspectives. I haven't built one of these from scratch, but I have done two late generation camaro's that I've stripped down, replaced engines, transmissions, suspensions, rear ends, subframes, etc. I took one down to a bare shell to transfer to a donor (rust issues). Prior to having money to buy cars, while in college I did my own mechanic duties not because I wanted to, but because I couldn't afford to pay someone to fix it, so I learned a ton that way. Started with doing brakes, then shocks, then clutches, then cylinder heads then swapping engines. That helped me lose the fear of trying, because I had nothing to lose then.

Two things I would say are my lessons learned:

1)Get it done as quickly as possible and start enjoying it. You will always be tweaking something and I mean always. Doesn't matter that's it's a custom car from scratch (like a Razor or SLC or Apex) or a Camaro. once you decide that a regular car 'just' won't do, you are committed to tinker. So don't wait for it to be perfect if you are building it yourself and just get it done and start enjoying it. These aren't daily drivers anyway, they'll spend more time parked than not.

2) The minute you start a build like this, you can't be focused on the money in the long term, almost need to think about solely as a hobby component. Here's a perfect example. I have my 96z28 I bought new, so it's 18 years old now and it has cost me, all in, almost 50k so far...(yikes for a car that may only be worth 5-8k now at best) My camaro I bought new drove 100k miles in 5 years. Since I tore it down and rebuilt it all, maybe 7500 miles and that in the last 7 years. I looked at my spreadsheet and in the 7 years after I spent close to 25k on all the mods I did. So basically to have a 1996 camaro until now, I've spent close to 45k including the purchase price of the car. no regrets and I love that car more than my corvette because I built it

I now have a c6z06 and it's an incredible machine compared to my camaro in terms of overall balance, power and handling, but it's refined. It doesn't have that same raw factor that my camaro had. But both cars are still 'heavy' compared to building one of the options we discuss on here.

I would only commit to a build now if I could get the weight down overall. so and walk a very fine line between rough and refined. still connected to the road, but still refined..

 

[Tom]

Is this price before or after you purchase a kit? My Razor was within that price range, just to give you an idea.

That's what I'm thinking for everything - starting from today with nothing on hand to having a running, driveable, more or less done Apex. I know there will continue to be incidental things after that, just like with any car.

It seems a big key is a cheap donor.

If I'm unrealistic about that, I want to learn it now before I've spent anything!

 

[Tom]

Two things I would say are my lessons learned:

1)Get it done as quickly as possible and start enjoying it. You will always be tweaking something and I mean always.

2) The minute you start a build like this, you can't be focused on the money in the long term, almost need to think about solely as a hobby component.

I'm okay with both of those points. When I say it can't be an endless project, I mean from start to the point where it's generally done and driveable. I know just like my bikes, it's never really done.

As for $, a big initial concern for me, I need to be able to stick to a tight budget to get from zero to that same completion point as above. If I end up dropping more here and there over time once it is complete, that's fine. I just can't divert $40, 50K or more as the initial outlay to have something usable.

 

[John Ross]

That's what I'm thinking [$30K-$35K] for everything - starting from today with nothing on hand to having a running, driveable, more or less done Apex. I know there will continue to be incidental things after that, just like with any car.

It seems a big key is a cheap donor.

It seems to me that whether you spend $3500 on your donor 95-99 GST or get it given to you for free, you should be able to come in well under budget, if you're using the existing 4G63T drivetrain and doing most of the work yourself. $10K buys a lot of bits and pieces for a car that already has all the major components including a finished interior, doors and windows that work, etc.

JR

 

[Bill]

The "Why" is all passion. It’s a lot of work and a lot of bucks and a lot of fun.

I always wanted to build a mid-engine sports car. I remember when I was an adolescent pimply 12 year old boy, I was captivated by the FiberFab Valkyrie. I used paper route money to send for a brochure and wore it out. There was a FiberFab distributer in Buffalo which was 60 miles from where I lived. As soon as I got my driver’s license I drove there to take a look. One look and I could see that the execution did not live up to my worn out brochure.

Then I entered my muscle car period with a 1964½ 289 4 speed Mustang, 1966 396/375HP 4 speed Chevelle Malibu SS, and then one of the last V8 Dusters. These cars were fun in a straight line, but turning and stopping could be hazardous. Several of my friends were seriously hurt in their muscle cars of that era.

My next mid-engine heart-throb was the Manta Mirage. Kit cars had come a long way by then, but were still more show than go. The Mirage had a Chevy V8 but used a Corvair 4 speed transaxle and VW front suspension.

Then there was the Ultima GTR. This was a real mid-engine performance car. However it was built in the UK and was pricy by the time it made it to US shores. I spent many hours reviewing GTR builder's journals to see what was invloved. Then I saw a GTR at the Irving, CA Cars & Coffee event. It lived up to the brochure, but somehow I expected more for the money.

I always wanted to build a car from the ground up, and decided that I would have to make some compromises if I was ever going to fulfill that desire. So I choose a kit car that I liked, could afford and was within my skills. That car was the Factory Five ’33 Hot Rod. I enjoyed the build and learned a lot in the process. However, it was a front engine car.

Soon after the ’33 build, I felt that post-partum depression. Much like women after their first child, I wanted to push out another. Since I was happy with my FFR kit, I seriously looked at the GTM. I ordered the assembly manual to see what is involved. Then I had a chance to sit in a GTM at the Charlotte AutoFair. It really was not a bad car, except the cockpit was just too small for me.


The SLC checked all the boxes for me:
• Mid-engine V8
• Light weight race bred chassis and suspension
• Knock out GTP body styling
• Enough room inside to be comfortable

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I think before buying any "kit" you should contact guys that own that build and ask them about the pros and cons of the build and the manufacturer. Find out the "actual" cost of each build, not the estimated. And Randy is correct, it's the journey, as long as the road is not "too bumpy".

 

[Tom]

I think before buying any "kit" you should contact guys that own that build and ask them about the pros and cons of the build and the manufacturer. Find out the "actual" cost of each build, not the estimated.

Makes sense, but the problem is that regarding the Apex as of today, there's only one and it's the factory car and not quite done yet. I don't think I want to be the first to build one, but OTOH if everyone has the same view, nobody will be first!

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

The Apex wont be released until its ready for first time builders to be able to complete it in a timely manner.
That is whole MO of the Apex....so realeasing it prematurely is of no advantage to anyone involved...