Engine in…..new problems.

[Pat]

the weather finally got nice enough and chores put aside to start working on the 40 again. I welded in a patch where the RCR 40 had the starter plate cutout for a larger flywheel/block. First time welding aluminum and after two weeks or so of on and off practice I have much respect for these guys that do this everyday!!!

I threw the engine and trans in and first problem was the motor mounts I bought last year. Finally tried putting them on and didnt realize until the engine was up in the car that my Dart block has reinforcement webbing right below the engine mount holes that interfere with the mounts I bought. Rather than cut the webbing on the block I cut the aluminum engine mounts and got it in. I’ll need to search for a new set of mounts maybe because I cut off a lot of flange on the long side of the engine mount. I searched the forum and found others who hit also with Dart blocks, some ground down the block itself to clear. Thoughts???

Next problem is the alternator bracket goes too far into the cabin. I’ll need to find a new bracket to mount it lower and back. Again looking for suggestions on brackets.

 

[Jim Albright]

You can reverse mount your alternator to the chassis for more room (Alternator works spinning either direction)

 

[Brian Kissel]

Pat, why does it look like your balancer is out about a 1-1/4” too far. It looks like all the mounts were moved out with spacers as well . Something doesn’t look right to me. Perhaps it’s the angle of the picture taken, but I’d look things over and start there.

Regards Brian

 

[Jean-Marc]

Pat, my car is a the paint shop now. I cannot make specifi photos but look at those ones. My configuration is with a Dart block too.
if I compare with your photos, your dumper should be much closer of the block. also, it seems that the space between the pouley and the damper is too large. May be all this is conditionned by your water pump, but the pulley oft he water pump shall cover part of the shaft of the pump.
May be you should change the aluminum support that are large by some thinner made of steel, also.

 

[JP Verweij]

Sure it looks like your balancer/ pulleys are out to far. That balancer should be close the the engine nearly touching it.

 

[Pat]

The balancer is the way I got the engine from Prestige, fully assembled. I think I even called them last year when I was assembling the pulleys to ask them why the balancer was so far out. I dont remember what they said though. They ran it and dyno’d it before shipping so I’m sure thats how the balancer was supposed to be mounted.

 

[Brian Kissel]

I’m pretty sure it’s not. I have built engines for about 55 years and have never seen one like that. I would start by pulling the balancer and see what’s going on there and then work out the rest of the pulley problems. Due to my heart, I am having them build me a custom engine. I can assure you that that if my balancer is installed that way, I will have a issue.

 

[Pat]

I’m pretty sure it’s not. I have built engines for about 55 years and have never seen one like that. I would start by pulling the balancer and see what’s going on there and then work out the rest of the pulley problems. Due to my heart, I am having them build me a custom engine. I can assure you that that if my balancer is installed that way, I will have an issue.

Thanks!! It’s been bothering me now because I put on these pulleys months ago and would have loved to have worked this all out then, with the engine out. I’ve dug through my emails looking for correspondence and cant find anything about it. I thought I had also put a post up questioning it but cant find that either. I remember thinking it was way out but never built a SBF before and thought it was something unique to Fords and maybe their water pumps. I appreciate all the help from everyone.

Happy Easter everyone. Waiting for all the relatives to come over so no garage today.

 

[Brian Kissel]

Happy Easter Pat. Enjoy your day with your family. The car can wait .

Regards Brian

 

[Lee Patterson]

I have the same Aviaid pan as you and am running a Ford Motorsports balancer M-6316-C351. The face of the balancer is exactly 2.75" out from the front face of the pan. I used CVF single belt pulleys which aligned perfectly with the use of one lower spacer on the crank. The back of the balancer is about 1/4" from the front edge of the timing chain cover. As for an alternator bracket, I bought the Gelscoe original GT cast bracket and tensioner which mounts it down very low, but would never align based on what I am seeing with your setup.

 

[Pat]

I spoke to Prestige and they told me this is the shortest balancer they use. They said with a short water pump it would just be enough for the pulleys. I told them I’m running an electric water pump to gain clearance and need it closer but they said thats as close as it gets. It’s an Innovators West #204 balancer for 4 bolt accessories. Looking for advice to see if there are other harmonic balancers that are ‘shorter’.

Lee I see the Ford Motorsport M-6316-C351 but can’t find dimensions or actual pictures of its depth but also it’s a 3 bolt pulley system. I can always buy another pulley if thats the case and use the Ford balancer. Could you send me pictures of yours? Here are some measurements of mine.

 

[Pat]

I have the same Aviaid pan as you and am running a Ford Motorsports balancer M-6316-C351. The face of the balancer is exactly 2.75" out from the front face of the pan. I used CVF single belt pulleys which aligned perfectly with the use of one lower spacer on the crank. The back of the balancer is about 1/4" from the front edge of the timing chain cover. As for an alternator bracket, I bought the Gelscoe original GT cast bracket and tensioner which mounts it down very low, but would never align based on what I am seeing with your setup.

Lee did you run a short water pump or electrical/remote? Trying to figure out which CVF system you went with.

 

[Lee Patterson]

The Ford motorsports balancer is both 3 and 4 bolt. Pic attached. Mounted to a SCAT 302 crank in a stock 1986 Ford 302 block with stock timing chain cover. The balancer comes silver but my builder paints all of his black.

 

[Lee Patterson]

I am running a Ford Motorsports shorty water pump. Here is the front end. The CVF pulleys are single belt. The crank pulley requires a spacer which they sell, as does Ford Motorsports. You need to measure to determine what is needed.

 

[Lee Patterson]

The entire stack extends out 6.75" from the front face of the AFR 165 heads.

 

[Lee Patterson]

Pat - your balancer is for an "internally" balanced motor and the spacing (so the web says) is for an 86 to 93 mustang assessory system. That may explain why it is much further forward.

Note - Mine uses the conventional 28 oz.in. external balance and hence that part number I gave you. Ford has other part numbers for your application.

 

[Lee Patterson]

The end of my crank before balancer was installed. When mounted, the balancer is 1/4" from the timing cover. Not sure how far out your crank extends.

 

[Pat]

The end of my crank before balancer was installed. When mounted, the balancer is 1/4" from the timing cover. Not sure how far out your crank extends.

Lee thanks for all the pictures and info!! I’ll search now for some balancers and see what they have. I’ll have to pull the engine to remove the balancer and see what I’m working with.

 

[Brian Kissel]

Pat, I would make a call to Innovators West and discuss this directly with them as a start. Work your way out from there. I have been reading every one of your previous posts. I have 5 more pages to read. I’ll get it that later tonight.

Regards Brian

 

[Pat]

Pat, I would make a call to Innovators West and discuss this directly with them as a start. Work your way out from there. I have been reading every one of your previous posts. I have 5 more pages to read. I’ll get it that later tonight.

Regards Brian

Thanks Brian, I appreciate the help. From research I’ve been doing tonight it seems the Frod 302 balancer came in three different lengths - 3”, 3.35” and 4”. 3 bolt pulley has the 3” balancer, 4 bolt pulley has the 4” balancer and the 3.35” balancer uses a 3/4 bolt pattern. It looks like everything on my current setup clears except the alternator bracket and alternator that I got from CVF that mounts mid passenger side. I’m wondering if I use the Gelscoe low alternator mount if that will fix everything and line up with my current balancer??? I emailed Gelscoe for price and how to purchase (unless anyone has one lying around?). I’ll need to get it anyway no matter what, even if I have to change the balancer. It seems to be the only bracket that moves the alternator to the lower passenger side and i have room in there for it.