Engine management systems
- Thread starter Buttinz
- Start date
Keith
Lifetime Supporter
I used the Borla 8 stack system when I completed RF 036. It was on a 347 from Coast High Performance. Used the EZ EFI 2.0 with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a fuel return. It started and ran on the first turn of the key. Ran very rich until the first drive where it started learning. Ran great by the second run (about 4-5 miles each time out). Can‘t get in a hurry with it and if you expect to run it in the shop without ever driving so it can “learn” you are going to be gravely disappointed.
The wire harness will need major modification to make it fit right on a mid-engine car, but it is all pretty straight forward and the instruction manual is good. If you are looking for a full race system, or you have a big cam, this is not what you are looking for.
Bottom line, yes I would use the EZ EFI 2.0 again.
The wire harness will need major modification to make it fit right on a mid-engine car, but it is all pretty straight forward and the instruction manual is good. If you are looking for a full race system, or you have a big cam, this is not what you are looking for.
Bottom line, yes I would use the EZ EFI 2.0 again.
Bill Kearley
Supporter
I'm using Holly XP with 8 stack Borla. The clown that set it up on a dyno and 600 plus HP was no good. I had it flashed and set again and it drives very nice, Make sure you sync your stacks.
PaulProe
Supporter
Joe
I am running a Borla System using a Performance Electronics ECU, very happy with the performance. A some tips for you
1) Don't try to 'cheap out' on the system. To be successful, the Individual Runner EFI system needs a number of tuning features that often are left out to reduce cost. The system should support Alpha-N tuning or the Borla's won't be happy. Plan on running two O2 sensors. Don't let them talk you into just one to save money.
2) Get past the "self-learn" marketing hype. They all will do this but beware - you have to have a system up, running and a pretty good tune before the self-learn kicks in. Self-learn only affects the fuel table based on your driving and how it matches the preset Fuel Ratio table. It has to have a good place to start or it won't 'self-learn'. Self-Learn also won't do cold start, hot start, fuel economy, de-accel popping, timing. You or your tuner have to set all these before the self-learn get to be useful.
3) plan on spending a couple of days on a Dyno with someone who knows what they're doing to get the system up and running. They are not plug n' play. Best to find someone who has done a similar build or you'll have to spend money to get them educated on the systems. It is not your run of the mill fuel injection setup. The 8 individual air holes make a difference in the way the system operates.
In searching for more customers, the EFI manufacturers really tout 'self-learn' - and most customers fall into their trap. They buy systems and never get them to work as they should. YOU MUST have a good initial tune to get the car to and ECU to do its thing. Yes, they will self-tune, they just forgot to tell you all the basic stuff you must have and do before it does.
Don't mean to sound negative - they really are good systems. They just require a whole lot more setup than what the manufacturers will tell you. And once they get setup properly, they are a true joy.
Paul
I am running a Borla System using a Performance Electronics ECU, very happy with the performance. A some tips for you
1) Don't try to 'cheap out' on the system. To be successful, the Individual Runner EFI system needs a number of tuning features that often are left out to reduce cost. The system should support Alpha-N tuning or the Borla's won't be happy. Plan on running two O2 sensors. Don't let them talk you into just one to save money.
2) Get past the "self-learn" marketing hype. They all will do this but beware - you have to have a system up, running and a pretty good tune before the self-learn kicks in. Self-learn only affects the fuel table based on your driving and how it matches the preset Fuel Ratio table. It has to have a good place to start or it won't 'self-learn'. Self-Learn also won't do cold start, hot start, fuel economy, de-accel popping, timing. You or your tuner have to set all these before the self-learn get to be useful.
3) plan on spending a couple of days on a Dyno with someone who knows what they're doing to get the system up and running. They are not plug n' play. Best to find someone who has done a similar build or you'll have to spend money to get them educated on the systems. It is not your run of the mill fuel injection setup. The 8 individual air holes make a difference in the way the system operates.
In searching for more customers, the EFI manufacturers really tout 'self-learn' - and most customers fall into their trap. They buy systems and never get them to work as they should. YOU MUST have a good initial tune to get the car to and ECU to do its thing. Yes, they will self-tune, they just forgot to tell you all the basic stuff you must have and do before it does.
Don't mean to sound negative - they really are good systems. They just require a whole lot more setup than what the manufacturers will tell you. And once they get setup properly, they are a true joy.
Paul
I also run the Borla eight stack with the Performance Electronics PE3 on a 363 small block. We also run it on all of our Formula SAE cars. The guys at Performance Electronics are very helpful and will probably have a sample map for you to start with.
I started with their table and first tuned the no load fuel and timing. After that I did some math and predicted the wide open throttle tuning and interpolated between. I have also used a "Road Dyno" with the on-board data acquisition system to further tune on a few occasions. The resulting tune is pretty close.
I really need to get on a chassis dyno and do a better job on both fuel and timing. I haven't turned on the self tune yet.
I'm very pleased with the system and would highly recommend it for your application.
Bob Woods
Tornado GT40 in Texas
I started with their table and first tuned the no load fuel and timing. After that I did some math and predicted the wide open throttle tuning and interpolated between. I have also used a "Road Dyno" with the on-board data acquisition system to further tune on a few occasions. The resulting tune is pretty close.
I really need to get on a chassis dyno and do a better job on both fuel and timing. I haven't turned on the self tune yet.
I'm very pleased with the system and would highly recommend it for your application.
Bob Woods
Tornado GT40 in Texas
x2
Self learning only works if your system has a pretty good base tune and it only affects the fuel table (it smoothens out the VE table).
Without a base tune, it doesn't do anything.
If you alter your AFR table, it also affects the VE table so you need to auto tune it again.
Some systems like Megasquirt, running Tunerstudio software do have the self learn cold start feature and that does work, but only, again, if you have a pretty good base tune.
Hot start will always be the culprit as there's no self learning, or auto tune feature for that. Hot starts issues are common caused by heat soak of the injectors altering the injectors resistance (Ohm) and so alters injector opening times. Raising fuel pressure on a hotstart will sort that but haven't found systems that can handle that other than OEM in modern cars.
x3: There is no such thing as 'self learning' of an ECU. You need feedback from a Dyno (best) or seat of pants (2nd best) to tune, and datalogging for refining the tune. Especially spark timing tuning there is no substitute for a Dyno.
There are several ECU's that can blend TPS based (Alpha-n) maps with MAP (speed-density) maps. ITB's can typically be tuned best in MAP for very low load conditions (as the TPS doesn't move much in that domain), and TPS based on higher load levels. If your ECU can blend both, you can (with a lot of work on a Dyno by a professional) get a very good ITB system tuned.
Heat soak can be an issue as JP said, thats one of the reasons many OEM's also went plastic intake manifolds that house the injectors. Less heat being conducted to your injectors, less issues. A return-style fuel loop also helps, which the OEM's don't have. The circulating fuel keeps the injectors cool(er) too.
I love the Megasquirt ability for 'ITB-load' tuning. Basically brings your blended TPS/MAP into a single load axis&table, makes it very nice to tune for a dyno-operator/tuner.
There are other equivalent systems out there: Link is good quality and support too, Halltech's series, all good value. Holley and the likes are mostly for plug-n-play advertised producst. Not very well suited to difficult ITB systems, and horrible user interface for a real tuner.
There are several ECU's that can blend TPS based (Alpha-n) maps with MAP (speed-density) maps. ITB's can typically be tuned best in MAP for very low load conditions (as the TPS doesn't move much in that domain), and TPS based on higher load levels. If your ECU can blend both, you can (with a lot of work on a Dyno by a professional) get a very good ITB system tuned.
Heat soak can be an issue as JP said, thats one of the reasons many OEM's also went plastic intake manifolds that house the injectors. Less heat being conducted to your injectors, less issues. A return-style fuel loop also helps, which the OEM's don't have. The circulating fuel keeps the injectors cool(er) too.
I love the Megasquirt ability for 'ITB-load' tuning. Basically brings your blended TPS/MAP into a single load axis&table, makes it very nice to tune for a dyno-operator/tuner.
There are other equivalent systems out there: Link is good quality and support too, Halltech's series, all good value. Holley and the likes are mostly for plug-n-play advertised producst. Not very well suited to difficult ITB systems, and horrible user interface for a real tuner.
Do not forget, ITB's always need just like quad carbs & like motorcycle carbs, synchroned at setup and after that each year (street use) or before each race event.
One ITB or carb will always run faster then the other by wear of the mechanical components that operates them.
No ECU controler will sort that.
One ITB or carb will always run faster then the other by wear of the mechanical components that operates them.
No ECU controler will sort that.
Similar threads
