Healthcare
- Thread starter Al Wohlstrom
- Start date
Ahhh, it just wasn't clear to imsa!
Last edited:
But... but... but... Glenn Beck
This is a funny as it is revealing.
Video: Glenn Beck's Operation | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
IMSA
This is a funny as it is revealing.
Video: Glenn Beck's Operation | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
IMSA
In the proposed POS bill! imsa, I give up, I have more luck talking to my dog. If all this stuff goes through, you can stop walking the dogs and everyone else will take care of your payments and general well being!
Here you go imsa, this is what this thread is about!
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf
What's your point? Fact of the matter is I'm not going to swallow a bunch of distorted crap, half truths, and outright lies you’re picking up listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Faux News and the rest of the hard right neocons. It just aint going to happen. No if you start documenting your statements from creditable and neutral sources, then we can have an adult discussion. Again, critical thinking…you may want to look into it.
There is no reason that in the worlds richest country middle class citizens with health insurance are forced into bankruptcy when they get ill and insurance doesn’t cover everything it should. Then there are the poor who can’t afford insurance at all. Or people with pre existing conditions that can’t get coverage. It goes on and on. Yet insurance premiums are rising every year. Something’s gotta give pretty soon.
IMSA
Very nice. Now why don't you go through that thing and start backing up the statements you have made with the page number and paragraphs so all of us will see what you're talking about directly from the source. You must have read it in order make the criticisms you have over the last 11 pages. Go ahead, I can wait and would be thrilled to be enlightened as I'm sure other readers interested in this topic would be. Frankly I think readers here are pretty lucky to have such a well informed person looking out for them. You are well informed now aren't you?
IMSA
Wrong. Since you have made the statements the the burden of proof lies on you to prove these assertions
IMSA
Not good enough. Please state the paragraph and statement on page 16 you have a problem with.
And on to another topic, since you have admitted getting some of your information from Rush Limbaugh, how do you know he's not under the influence of drugs which would impede clear thinking. He did have a little problem at one time didn't he ? Something about Oxycontin from what I remember... Does that ring a bell with you?
IMSA
I never mentioned Rush Limbaugh, you did!
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
as required by law, the issuer does not change any
of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day
before the first day of Y1.
Here's a little reading for you
10 Awesome Things That Would Happen If Health Reform Passes | Health and Wellness | AlterNet
snip//
#1
1: The First Thing That Will Happen Is Absolutely Nothing
At least that's the case for a lot of people who now have quality health insurance.
If you have a decent health plan through your job, nothing will change for you in terms of your insurance.
In fact, if you work for a large or medium-sized company and have decent coverage at a price you can afford, then nothing can change for you -- you'll be ineligible to enroll in the public insurance option (which is discussed below).
If you have already have government-run health care -- if you're a vet, or are on Medicare or Medicaid or have a child in the State Children's Health Insurance Program, nothing will change for you in terms of your coverage. (One exception: Under the House bill, eligible children would be shifted from S-CHIP to a new public insurance program in 2013).
The only thing that would change for you in these circumstances would be this: your current insurance company would have a harder time screwing you over if you get sick. That's because, although your policy wouldn't change, it would be governed by new public-interest regulations for the entire health insurance industry. (See next item.)
IMSA
10 Awesome Things That Would Happen If Health Reform Passes | Health and Wellness | AlterNet
snip//
#1
1: The First Thing That Will Happen Is Absolutely Nothing
At least that's the case for a lot of people who now have quality health insurance.
If you have a decent health plan through your job, nothing will change for you in terms of your insurance.
In fact, if you work for a large or medium-sized company and have decent coverage at a price you can afford, then nothing can change for you -- you'll be ineligible to enroll in the public insurance option (which is discussed below).
If you have already have government-run health care -- if you're a vet, or are on Medicare or Medicaid or have a child in the State Children's Health Insurance Program, nothing will change for you in terms of your coverage. (One exception: Under the House bill, eligible children would be shifted from S-CHIP to a new public insurance program in 2013).
The only thing that would change for you in these circumstances would be this: your current insurance company would have a harder time screwing you over if you get sick. That's because, although your policy wouldn't change, it would be governed by new public-interest regulations for the entire health insurance industry. (See next item.)
IMSA
And a little more for your enjoyment
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
SEC. 101. REQUIREMENTS REFORMING HEALTH INSURANCE MARKETPLACE.
(a) Purpose- The purpose of this title is to establish standards to ensure that new health insurance coverage and employment-based health plans that are offered meet standards guaranteeing access to affordable coverage, essential benefits, and other consumer protections.
(b) Requirements for Qualified Health Benefits Plans- On or after the first day of Y1, a health benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan under this division unless the plan meets the applicable requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan and plan year involved:
(1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
(2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
(3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protection).
(c) Terminology- In this division:
(1) ENROLLMENT IN EMPLOYMENT-BASED HEALTH PLANS- An individual shall be treated as being `enrolled' in an employment-based health plan if the individual is a participant or beneficiary (as such terms are defined in section 3(7) and 3(8), respectively, of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974) in such plan.
(2) INDIVIDUAL AND GROUP HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE- The terms `individual health insurance coverage' and `group health insurance coverage' mean health insurance coverage offered in the individual market or large or small group market, respectively, as defined in section 2791 of the Public Health Service Act.
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-
(1) GRACE PERIOD-
(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.
(B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS PLANS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the following:
(i) Any coverage described in section 3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Public Law 111-5).
(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974), including coverage under a specified disease or illness policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such section.
(iii) Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.
In no case shall an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through (iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this division
(2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.
(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-
(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.
Subtitle B--Standards Guaranteeing Access to Affordable Coverage
IMSA
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
SEC. 101. REQUIREMENTS REFORMING HEALTH INSURANCE MARKETPLACE.
(a) Purpose- The purpose of this title is to establish standards to ensure that new health insurance coverage and employment-based health plans that are offered meet standards guaranteeing access to affordable coverage, essential benefits, and other consumer protections.
(b) Requirements for Qualified Health Benefits Plans- On or after the first day of Y1, a health benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan under this division unless the plan meets the applicable requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan and plan year involved:
(1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
(2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
(3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protection).
(c) Terminology- In this division:
(1) ENROLLMENT IN EMPLOYMENT-BASED HEALTH PLANS- An individual shall be treated as being `enrolled' in an employment-based health plan if the individual is a participant or beneficiary (as such terms are defined in section 3(7) and 3(8), respectively, of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974) in such plan.
(2) INDIVIDUAL AND GROUP HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE- The terms `individual health insurance coverage' and `group health insurance coverage' mean health insurance coverage offered in the individual market or large or small group market, respectively, as defined in section 2791 of the Public Health Service Act.
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-
(1) GRACE PERIOD-
(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.
(B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS PLANS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the following:
(i) Any coverage described in section 3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Public Law 111-5).
(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974), including coverage under a specified disease or illness policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such section.
(iii) Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.
In no case shall an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through (iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this division
(2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.
(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-
(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.
Subtitle B--Standards Guaranteeing Access to Affordable Coverage
IMSA
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
If you change anything, you revert to the goverment plan.
If you change anything, you revert to the goverment plan.
Save your sanity Al. IMSA has the same type of blinders on that he accuses you of. He is blindly hoping that BO and Pelosi are telling the truth about everything without applying any critical thinking skills to the unwritten possibilities some of the bill could be interpreted to allow. I am certain BO, Pelosi and Reid have no power grab in mind or any thought to stick it to the conservatives now that they won.....it's all rainbows and unicorns 
Save your sanity Al. IMSA has the same type of blinders on that he accuses you of. He is blindly hoping that BO and Pelosi are telling the truth about everything without applying any critical thinking skills to the unwritten possibilities some of the bill could be interpreted to allow. I am certain BO, Pelosi and Reid have no power grab in mind or any thought to stick it to the conservatives now that they won.....it's all rainbows and unicorns
I agree, but I thought that I would try to help one who has English as a 2nd language.
Which RCR are you saving for?
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I'm not getting into this debate, but a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. We all should (at least) read this on what the bill says about private insurance, grandfathering and new enrollments.
Private Insurance Not Outlawed | FactCheck.org
Private Insurance Not Outlawed | FactCheck.org
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