Need Help Identify GT40

[Marco Solari]

Good morning, I am Marco from Italy. After years reading your precious posts I decided to join the forum because the GT40 is my all time favorite car.

I am writing here because a GT40 has been offered to me and I am trying to find out the real identity of this car. The story looks to me a bit complicated. I’ve already seen a couple of discussions about this car in this forum. Hope that you experts will manage to help me to find out the what this car is and its story.

This is what the current owner told me about this car:

The car is a 1971 MK1 converted to MK2. He doesn’t know what she really is, he like to name it a rebuilt.
She was purchased by the current owner in UK in 2007. The previous owner said that he bought it in USA from a certain Mark Patterson in Michigan (don’t know the year). The car still has its own UK and USA plates. The current owner never registered the car because he’s a ex racing driver and upgraded it to race specs and raced it untile a while ago. For example it’s equipped with a ZF 5 speed transmission. The car has a FIA Passport.

 

[Marco Solari]

Now I am attaching VIN pictures
I am not so expert but the car looks to me to have at least 2 different VINs if not 3.

These are located in the engine compartment, left side, behind passenger seat.



While this is on the passenger side inside the cockpit


And these are on the front chassis

 

[Marco Solari]

Before writing here I tried to make my researches and judging from the rear clamshell, taillights, and dashboard I would say this is one of the few GTD40 MK2 (I’ve read they have produced very few units). I’ve seen very few pictures of other cars with the same rear clamshell.
The VINs look weird to me. I’ve learned that SABTVRO vins mean “SABTVRO stands for, Stolen And Brought To Vehicle Recovery Office” and these cars are re registered on Q plates.
I’d be very grateful if someone could help me to understand this car, and to know what could be its value. The owner wants 180.000€.

 

[Ole Nylende]

It has been put up for sale on facebook from time to other for a long time.
It is for sure not an original car as it is a spaceframe and not a monocoque. The rear clamshell is typically a gtd one (mk1 with mk2 scoops added + additional rearlights which are too big compared to an actual mk2 and a bunch of other differences).
A mk2 would not have a small block engine, neither a zf transmission.

I dont understand how it has been given a fia htp...

 

[Walter]

Hi Marco: I have pictures of a GTD MK2 - factory ``lightweight" from 1992. The car was up for sale around 2020 in the Netherlands. Here a few of them.

 

[JP Verweij]

Thats a GTD MK2 for sure. I have one in the Netherlands, see pic.
Even the dashboard is a GTD piece.
Rearscreen is GTD and not MK2 as is the rear valance.

GTD made about seven of those according to Lee Dawson early nineties. As I believe three lightweights where made.
They used sewer pipe as a template for the MK2 airscoop.

Vin number SABTVR03596177285 is a DVLA (UK) given vin for re-shelled cars. In this case probably a '71 Ford Cortina donor car
Engine number D20E is a 1972 302 V8 which is incorrect for a genuine GT40.

 

[Randy V]

Welcome to GT40s, Marco!
I’m certain you’re going to find the information you’re looking for here!
Enjoy the forums!

 

[Rob Klein]

Good morning, I am Marco from Italy. After years reading your precious posts I decided to join the forum because the GT40 is my all time favorite car.

I am writing here because a GT40 has been offered to me and I am trying to find out the real identity of this car. The story looks to me a bit complicated. I’ve already seen a couple of discussions about this car in this forum. Hope that you experts will manage to help me to find out the what this car is and its story.

This is what the current owner told me about this car:

The car is a 1971 MK1 converted to MK2. He doesn’t know what she really is, he like to name it a rebuilt.
She was purchased by the current owner in UK in 2007. The previous owner said that he bought it in USA from a certain Mark Patterson in Michigan (don’t know the year). The car still has its own UK and USA plates. The current owner never registered the car because he’s a ex racing driver and upgraded it to race specs and raced it untile a while ago. For example it’s equipped with a ZF 5 speed transmission. The car has a FIA Passport.



View attachment 143609View attachment 143610View attachment 143611View attachment 143612View attachment 143613View attachment 143614View attachment 143615View attachment 143616View attachment 143620

The title is wrong, because it's not an real GT40 MKII

 

[Marco Solari]

It has been put up for sale on facebook from time to other for a long time.
It is for sure not an original car as it is a spaceframe and not a monocoque. The rear clamshell is typically a gtd one (mk1 with mk2 scoops added + additional rearlights which are too big compared to an actual mk2 and a bunch of other differences).
A mk2 would not have a small block engine, neither a zf transmission.

I dont understand how it has been given a fia htp...

Thank you for your feedback. What gearbox should have an MK2?

 

[Marco Solari]

Hi Marco: I have pictures of a GTD MK2 - factory ``lightweight" from 1992. The car was up for sale around 2020 in the Netherlands. Hear a few of them.

Thanks a lot for sharing! She looks identical especially the interior. Only taillights are different. Do you know at which price it was sold?

 

[Marco Solari]

Welcome to GT40s, Marco!
I’m certain you’re going to find the information you’re looking for here!
Enjoy the forums!

Thank you! I really read the forum since a lot of years. The contents that members have contributed to this forum are truly remarkable.

 

[Marco Solari]

Thats a GTD MK2 for sure. I have one in the Netherlands, see pic.
Even the dashboard is a GTD piece.
Rearscreen is GTD and not MK2 as is the rear valance.

GTD made about seven of those according to Lee Dawson early nineties. As I believe three lightweights where made.
They used sewer pipe as a template for the MK2 airscoop.

Vin number SABTVR03596177285 is a DVLA (UK) given vin for re-shelled cars. In this case probably a '71 Ford Cortina donor car
Engine number D20E is a 1972 302 V8 which is incorrect for a genuine GT40.


View attachment 143644

Your car looks amazing JP!

Are you sure about the 7 units produced? What exactly is a factory lightweight?

I tried to put all the GTD40 MK2 known by me together:

Factory lightweight from Holland



The car I am talking about in this topic



Gulf livery

 

[Marco Solari]

A green one equipped with supercharged engine




JP’s car



A Yellow LHD



And another one featured on a magazine

 

[Ole Nylende]

Thank you for your feedback. What gearbox should have an MK2?

They had the t-44 box. Made for the mk2 gt40 to withstand the 427 big block around lemans... The zf box in the car you posted here is what they used in the mk1 and 3.

 

[Marco Solari]

They had the t-44 box. Made for the mk2 gt40 to withstand the 427 big block around lemans... The zf box in the car you posted here is what they used in the mk1 and 3.

Thanks a lot! Do you think that other GTD MK2 are equipped with a 7.0 and T-44 gearbox?

 

[Ole Nylende]

Thanks a lot! Do you think that other GTD MK2 are equipped with a 7.0 and T-44 gearbox?

None that i am aware of. Usually smallblock and a random transaxle like a un1, zf units was not used that often...

 

[JP Verweij]

Thanks a lot! Do you think that other GTD MK2 are equipped with a 7.0 and T-44 gearbox?

GTDs had mostly a Rover V8 or a Ford Winsor V8. Some had a Ford V6, Cologne or Essex.
Transmissions where mostly a Renault UN1, some upgraded to a ZF later on, or Audi transaxle these days.
T44 Transaxle is hens teeth, you wont find those in a GTD. They where specific original MK2 & MK4.
7.0 sideoiler needs loads of modifications to the chassis to fit in a GTD so you wont find one.
Lee Dawson made the GTDs back in the day including the MK2. The three lightweights where monocoque chassis as I believe.
Had a chat last year with Lee at Le Mans Classic about the GTD MK2s made.

There was another GTD MK2 for sale a few years ago in Germany, that was converted from a Rover V8 to a Ford Winsor 302.
My MK2 is also running a Rover V8.

 

[Ryan L]

I like it, it has a certain character about it.
from the mounts near the steering rack, it looks like it is a tubular steel space frame in places. The interior looks to be clad in sheet aluminum. This would be consistent with most replica cars.

The original cars had a sheet metal monocoque chassis that is very different to what is shown here in its construction, even if the geometry and dimensions are similar.

 

[Marco Solari]

GTDs had mostly a Rover V8 or a Ford Winsor V8. Some had a Ford V6, Cologne or Essex.
Transmissions where mostly a Renault UN1, some upgraded to a ZF later on, or Audi transaxle these days.
T44 Transaxle is hens teeth, you wont find those in a GTD. They where specific original MK2 & MK4.
7.0 sideoiler needs loads of modifications to the chassis to fit in a GTD so you wont find one.
Lee Dawson made the GTDs back in the day including the MK2. The three lightweights where monocoque chassis as I believe.
Had a chat last year with Lee at Le Mans Classic about the GTD MK2s made.

There was another GTD MK2 for sale a few years ago in Germany, that was converted from a Rover V8 to a Ford Winsor 302.
My MK2 is also running a Rover V8.

Thank you very much for your information. This car really fascinating me. But what do you think the real value is? While searching on the web I’ve found a 2020 auction of the yellow lightweight posted by Walter. It had almost the same kms registered on the one that is for sale now.

Ford GTD 40 Mark II 1992 - Classic Car Auctions

Op zoek naar een Ford GTD 40 Mark II 1992? Bekijk snel de website voor meer informatie. Neem contact met ons op bij vragen of interesse.

archive.classiccar-auctions.com

“ Estimated: € 85.000-95.000,- “

What is the real value of the GT40 I posted?

 

[Ole Nylende]

This car sold for 86K GBP some time ago;

Bonhams Cars : 2008 Southern GT40 Coupé Chassis no. SGT05ZF08331P1075 Engine no. D4TE4G31

• Built at the Southern GT factory • Four-year build completed in 2008. • 5.4-litre Ford V8 engine and Quaife (ZF) five-speed gearbox • Exceptional specification • Extensively campaigned • Well known in GT40 circles This GT40 was built by our vendor in the Southern GT factory over a four-year...

cars.bonhams.com

Regardless of how you look at it, it will always be a spaceframe replica. It is a nice car with lots of potential though.
So honestly somewhere in the area 80-100K euro seems like a more realistic price given what others sell for, like the above SGT mk1.