That display answers a question of mine. I have a Lotus street car with a 5DS20, which was also used in the Lotus 49 Grand Prix car. I've assumed that the difference between the 5DS20 and the 5DS25 is the amount of torque they're designed to handle. One of the signs on the display says that the max "input torque" of the 5DS25 is 250 Nm, so my guess is that the 25 in the transaxle's name is the torque divided by 10. If I'm correct, that would mean the max input torque for the 5DS20 is 200 Nm.
ZF 5DS25-2 on display
- Thread starter weisserheilbronn
- Start date
Hello Ben,
On that same display there was also information on the 5DS20 - See post below in another (misleading) thread.
It seems that your assumption is correct.
Sorry for not putting all information info into one spot.
Markus
On that same display there was also information on the 5DS20 - See post below in another (misleading) thread.
Lancia 037 recreation
Ok so here it goes, I love building rally cars from the seventies and eighties. So far i have built a Lancia Stratos replica ( a Hawk with Alfa romeo V6 ). After i sold the car i bought a restauration project an Alpine A110 which is currently at the paint shop to prepare for paint. I have a...
www.gt40s.com
It seems that your assumption is correct.
Sorry for not putting all information info into one spot.
Markus
Thanks for the pointer. That's a bit of history I didn't know. So ZF developed the 5DSxx series transaxles in cooperation with Lotus and then later Ford used an uprated version for the GT40.
Digging into the Lotus history, the Lotus 19B (closed wheel body) had a 289 block with a Colotti transaxle. In 1964, it was described as the world's fastest sports car, but the Colotti transaxle was the car's weak point.
Perhaps I got a little carried away in editing my reply, but I had fun digging up the details.
Digging into the Lotus history with ZF
In 1950s, Lotus built the rear drive Lotus 12, 16, and 18 Formula One and Formula Two cars with a Lotus designed "Queerbox" transaxle. It was based sequential motorcycle gearbox with a ZF limited slip differential. They were powered by front engined Coventry Climax FPF ranging from 1500 to 2500 CC.
Lotus used conventional ZF gearboxes for some of the Lotus Elites starting in 1960. These used custom designed Coventry Climax FWE (Feather Weight Elite). The original FW engines were made for fire pumps that could be carried by two people. Colin Chapman recognized the value of reliable, lightweight aluminum block engines and used a FWA in the Lotus XI.
The Lotus 21 was built in 1961 with a four cylinder Coventry Climax FPF engine and a ZF5DS10 to fill a gap while waiting for the V8 Coventry Climax engine. This was the first Lotus to win a Formula One Grand Prix race.
In 1962, Lotus built the successful Lotus 25 Grand Prix car with a ZF 5DS10 and mated to a Coventry Climax FWMV V8 1,500 CC engine. The ZF transaxle was designed for this car. The 25 was the first monocoque race car. Lotus also built a conventional version of this car with a tubular space frame, the Lotus 24, for customers to purchase and race.
In the fall of 1962, and at Dan Gurney's instigation, Lotus brought a Lotus 25 to Indy for testing. They then built the Lotus 29 Indy car which had a Ford 256 V8 and a Colotti transaxle. It ran at Indy from 1963-1965.
In 1963, the one-off Lotus 19B (closed wheel body) had a Ford 289 engine with a Colotti transaxle. In 1964, it was described as the world's fastest sports car, but the Colotti transaxle was the car's weak point. Later in 1964, the successor to the 19B, the Lotus 30 came out. It also has a 289, but this car had the ZF 5DS20. Also in 1964, the Lotus 34 Indy car had a 289 paired with 5DS20 transaxle.
In 1964, Lotus came out the Lotus 33 an update to the Lotus 25, but it didn't start winning races until the following year, giving Jim Clark his second championship win.
The Lotus 38 with a Ford 256 V8 and a 5DS20 was the first Lotus to win at Indy in 1965 with Jim Clark leading for all but 10 laps.
In 1968, Lotus built the 47D, one-off version of the Lotus 47, the race version of the Europa. It was made at the request of the British car manufacturer GKN (they made castings, Vanwall bearings, Hardy-Spice CV joints, ...). One of the castings that GKN made was the Rover 3,500 CC V8 engine, so Lotus modified the body and chassis to fit the V8 and a 5DS20 transaxle (By 1968, I suspect the transaxle was a leftover sitting on the shelf).
So some of these Lotus cars might have inspired Ford to replace the troublesome Colotti with the ZF in the GT40s.
en.wikipedia.org
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en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
(Contrary to what I said above, it looks like the Lotus 49 did not have a ZF, but rather a Hewland transaxle developed with Lotus)
Digging into the Lotus history with ZF
In 1950s, Lotus built the rear drive Lotus 12, 16, and 18 Formula One and Formula Two cars with a Lotus designed "Queerbox" transaxle. It was based sequential motorcycle gearbox with a ZF limited slip differential. They were powered by front engined Coventry Climax FPF ranging from 1500 to 2500 CC.
Lotus used conventional ZF gearboxes for some of the Lotus Elites starting in 1960. These used custom designed Coventry Climax FWE (Feather Weight Elite). The original FW engines were made for fire pumps that could be carried by two people. Colin Chapman recognized the value of reliable, lightweight aluminum block engines and used a FWA in the Lotus XI.
The Lotus 21 was built in 1961 with a four cylinder Coventry Climax FPF engine and a ZF5DS10 to fill a gap while waiting for the V8 Coventry Climax engine. This was the first Lotus to win a Formula One Grand Prix race.
In 1962, Lotus built the successful Lotus 25 Grand Prix car with a ZF 5DS10 and mated to a Coventry Climax FWMV V8 1,500 CC engine. The ZF transaxle was designed for this car. The 25 was the first monocoque race car. Lotus also built a conventional version of this car with a tubular space frame, the Lotus 24, for customers to purchase and race.
In the fall of 1962, and at Dan Gurney's instigation, Lotus brought a Lotus 25 to Indy for testing. They then built the Lotus 29 Indy car which had a Ford 256 V8 and a Colotti transaxle. It ran at Indy from 1963-1965.
In 1963, the one-off Lotus 19B (closed wheel body) had a Ford 289 engine with a Colotti transaxle. In 1964, it was described as the world's fastest sports car, but the Colotti transaxle was the car's weak point. Later in 1964, the successor to the 19B, the Lotus 30 came out. It also has a 289, but this car had the ZF 5DS20. Also in 1964, the Lotus 34 Indy car had a 289 paired with 5DS20 transaxle.
In 1964, Lotus came out the Lotus 33 an update to the Lotus 25, but it didn't start winning races until the following year, giving Jim Clark his second championship win.
The Lotus 38 with a Ford 256 V8 and a 5DS20 was the first Lotus to win at Indy in 1965 with Jim Clark leading for all but 10 laps.
In 1968, Lotus built the 47D, one-off version of the Lotus 47, the race version of the Europa. It was made at the request of the British car manufacturer GKN (they made castings, Vanwall bearings, Hardy-Spice CV joints, ...). One of the castings that GKN made was the Rover 3,500 CC V8 engine, so Lotus modified the body and chassis to fit the V8 and a 5DS20 transaxle (By 1968, I suspect the transaxle was a leftover sitting on the shelf).
So some of these Lotus cars might have inspired Ford to replace the troublesome Colotti with the ZF in the GT40s.
Lotus Eleven - Wikipedia
Lotus Elite - Wikipedia
Queerbox - Wikipedia
Lotus 12 - Wikipedia
Lotus 16 - Wikipedia
Lotus 18 - Wikipedia
Lotus 19 - Wikipedia
Lotus 21 - Wikipedia
Lotus 24 - Wikipedia
Lotus 25 - Wikipedia
Lotus 29 - Wikipedia
Lotus 30 - Wikipedia
Lotus 33 - Wikipedia
Lotus 34 - Wikipedia
Lotus 38 - Wikipedia
(Contrary to what I said above, it looks like the Lotus 49 did not have a ZF, but rather a Hewland transaxle developed with Lotus)
Ford knew early on they needed the ZF transaxle. I can't put an exact date on that decision, but there is a dvd interview with John Wyer where he states that they were waiting for the ZF's to arrive & when they contacted ZF to see where they were they were told, 'yes Mr Wyer you have paid for the transaxles to be supplied but you have not yet paid for the tooling to produce them' (from my memory! that's not word for word, but the content is as per the interview).
The ZF box appeared in the last of the prototypes & was ready for the GT40P---- production run.
Regards Steve
The ZF box appeared in the last of the prototypes & was ready for the GT40P---- production run.
Regards Steve
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