2223 Lives!

[mike]

Mike,
I have the TWM setup which is identical down to the bolts to yours. We just hooked up all the electronics and fired the engine last week. I couldn't drive it at Road America due to a misplaced crossover fuel line discovered on the last day before we trailered to Wisconsin. Mine was the Grey and Copper 40 there. My pedal is tight or stiff as well. I have a few routing issues to work out and an adjustment for the pedal itself. One thing to consider with your pedal is, is the fulcrum of the clevis located before the top of the arc that it goes through when you depress the throttle. These have to be located just before the top of the arc or the cable will bind on its entry/exit to the sheath. Mine is too far ahead of the arc and I will have to alter the rod ends to get it closer to the top of the arc. My setup uses a push pull setup(see DRB#5). Also, I measured the lenght of the cable as it unwinds from the round device on the intake manifold. It measures nearly 3 inches. If you lenghten the shaft at the pedal, the down side is the pedal will need to go further to reach WOT. Three inches is about as long as you want to use. Gets tough on the ankle. The good news is that the work required is less(basic geometry). The other less easily done thing is to increase the radius of the mount on the intake manifold.
I have noticed that to open the throttle bodies at the intake manifold, requires a tremendous effort. Either the springs on the ends of the adjustment rods(idle set screw area) is too stiff or the mechanism that links the throttle bodies is too tight. I will contact TWM today or tomorrow(on call today and tonight) and get their thoughts as they shouold have delt with this before. They are the company that furnished the FI setups to the Roush motors. How do I know? That is what held them up for two weeks when I ordered mine. If they aren't able to help us, then I will contact Roush to see if they experienced this problem and how they handled it. If your is a Roush setup, give them a call and post the response here.

Bill

i did contact thor motorsports abt this issue. (the guy who sold me the TWM.) i asked him abt this and asked where the mechanism springs were and if he has seen this prob b4. he said he hadnt heard of this issue and was going to check to see if he could get a schematics on where the springs are.
my engine is a custom build, so i have not contacted roush.
i did contact olthoff and per merlin he was not aware of any adjustment that could be done, but he has not seen any heavy throttle issues with the TWM.
we did check the cable and didnt find any kinks or sharp bends.
im sure we will look again.

 

[Jack Houpe]

yep, thats it......
if you work the throttle by moving the linkage right there behind the adjustment screw, is it still hard to move or easy?

also, do you have an IAC motor on your setup? mine doesnt have an iac motor so there is no adjustment for cold idle etc...

thanks

Its seems easy to me but then again I am not sure if we had the same springs on the throttle bodies. Could be they are different.

Yes, I have an IAC motor and it works OK, I didn't say perfect because they (TWM) should have milled the hole bigger for more air to pass through. I can get 1500 rpm on cold start then it idles down to 850 when warm but the motor must open all the way to get 1500 RPM.

 

[mike]

Its seems easy to me but then again I am not sure if we had the same springs on the throttle bodies. Could be they are different.

Yes, I have an IAC motor and it works OK, I didn't say perfect because they (TWM) should have milled the hole bigger for more air to pass through. I can get 1500 rpm on cold start then it idles down to 850 when warm but the motor must open all the way to get 1500 RPM.

hmmmmm.....mine didnt have a plenum for an iac....

 

[Jack Houpe]

The plenum for the IAC is part of the linkage for the throttle bodies. The inlet for the IAC is under the main linkage and is O-ringed. Here is the best picture I can take of it while in the car.

 

[mike]

I had a problem, it was the clevis on the cable hook up point at the pedal area, the nut was so tight that the clevis would not swing and it cut through many of the cable treads. I replaced the cable with a stainless steel bicycle brake cable. We have the same fuel injection, you might check that the return spring on the pedal is not the wrong size, (to big)that would cause stiff pedal.

If you ever want a set of clear lexan air cleaners let me know I have a used set. I like your P number, its eazy to remember.

jack, post a pic of what you have in mind.
i assume you contend that this system flows more air than my current system.
can you support this assertion?
thanks
mike

 

[Jack Houpe]

Mike I made 4 sets of the lexan (polycarbonate) aircleaners, Mike Trusty designed them and I cut them out on my cnc machine. They are pretty trick and look great, but for some reason not a lot of interest in them. I am looking to get what I have in them. If you seen my car at Road American I had a set on it and also Mike Trustys car had his own custom design for the MKII. Anyway I want $375 for the set, they are used but still great shape. Not sure about the CFM but I would be willing to bet its more than the motor can flow if Mike designed them. Here are some pictures. I would be happy to send you pictures of them off the car. I have drilled and tapped for MAT sensor on one of them.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Jack,
I am not sure what your IAC is or what its function is. Is it tied into your electronics? My TWM did not come with that device on it. What I have is a plenum with 8 tubes running to each of the throttle bodies and it has a port for the MAP sensor if I remember corectly. I think the increased idle is a function of the electronics of either the ECU or the FI controller. Here is a pic of my setup.

Bill

 

[Kirby Schrader]

Bill,

Your system looks very much like mine. I do not have an IAC either. Nor have I found a need for one so far...

Pics of my TWM setup here.

Kirby's GT40 Mk II
(scroll down a little bit...)

Note that I used the aluminum air cleaner setup. Had I seen Jack's design earlier, I would have used his setup. It is a LOT cheaper than what I have...

Kirby

Jack,
I am not sure what your IAC is or what its function is. Is it tied into your electronics? My TWM did not come with that device on it. What I have is a plenum with 8 tubes running to each of the throttle bodies and it has a port for the MAP sensor if I remember corectly. I think the increased idle is a function of the electronics of either the ECU or the FI controller. Here is a pic of my setup.

Bill

 

[Jack Houpe]

IAC motor is Idle Air Control, its a stepper motor that will open and close a path to the intake where all the throttle bodies are under equal vacuum. Bill, I remember your set up and without some extensive plumbing an IAC motor will not work for you or Kirby. I use electromotive TEC2, Kirby uses the latest and best TEC3R which will control the IAC motor. Also electromotive has an ignition advance to bring the idle up or down, its all programmable with a lap top computer. I am sure your system provides the same. The only time the IAC is needed is in the winter when a rich mixture is required and when the AC compressor cycles. I have them on all my cars that have electromotive but that doesn't mean you need one as Kirby states.

 

[mike]

IAC motor is Idle Air Control, its a stepper motor that will open and close a path to the intake where all the throttle bodies are under equal vacuum. Bill, I remember your set up and without some extensive plumbing an IAC motor will not work for you or Kirby. I use electromotive TEC2, Kirby uses the latest and best TEC3R which will control the IAC motor. Also electromotive has an ignition advance to bring the idle up or down, its all programmable with a lap top computer. I am sure your system provides the same. The only time the IAC is needed is in the winter when a rich mixture is required and when the AC compressor cycles. I have them on all my cars that have electromotive but that doesn't mean you need one as Kirby states.

i suppose we dont NEED one, but when we cold start our cars they dont want to keep running unless we constantly step on the gas untill we drive it a few blocks....doable, yes, but i mean we have fuel injection, i would expect those issues from a carb car, but at least the carb car would have a choke. my 8 stack fi without iac doesnt have a choke. its just kind of a pain on cold starts.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Mike if you have the same intake like mine just order one from TWM and drill the hole in the manifold. Does your EFI have control for idle? This will solve all the cold start issues. Also if you do not want to go that route then go to a junk yard or ebay and buy a cold start valve off any CIS injection system and just hook it to switched 12v. It uses a bi-metallic strip that opens and closes a small valve, when the engine is cold its open but after the heater heats the strip it closes and if the engine is hot it will stay closed. That is the simplest way to control cold starts.

 

[mike]

Mike if you have the same intake like mine just order one from TWM and drill the hole in the manifold. Does your EFI have control for idle? This will solve all the cold start issues. Also if you do not want to go that route then go to a junk yard or ebay and buy a cold start valve off any CIS injection system and just hook it to switched 12v. It uses a bi-metallic strip that opens and closes a small valve, when the engine is cold its open but after the heater heats the strip it closes and if the engine is hot it will stay closed. That is the simplest way to control cold starts.

i think my efi uses the iac to control idle...via more air.

 

As of tonight, I am having the same "high" idle problems. Car has been fine for 2500 miles and then tonight it will not idle below 2000rpms. Checked at the intake and all looks fine and mechanicals are coming back to their stops. Throttle cable also seems fine. I have the TWM system as well...from Roush.

Brian

 

[Jack Houpe]

As of tonight, I am having the same "high" idle problems. Car has been fine for 2500 miles and then tonight it will not idle below 2000rpms. Checked at the intake and all looks fine and mechanicals are coming back to their stops. Throttle cable also seems fine. I have the TWM system as well...from Roush.

Brian

Brian is it high rpm with popping like one of the throttle bodies is out of sync or is a smooth high idle? If is smooth you got a vacuum leak some place. Give me a call if you get time.
Jack

 

Brian is it high rpm with popping like one of the throttle bodies is out of sync or is a smooth high idle? If is smooth you got a vacuum leak some place. Give me a call if you get time.
Jack

No popping at all, very smooth.
Started it up this morning and again it would idle about 1500rpm-2000rpm. It would vary slightly after driving it awhile. Drive for 10 minutes, come to a stop and idle at 1500rpm. Drive another 10 minutes, come to a stop a idle at 2000rpm. I have gone over the linkage and all is good. The throttle bodies are hitting their stops fine and I have the idle screws all the way out so they are not even touching the throttle lever. Checked the footbox and cable runs smooth, no binding.
Now I on my second drive today, all is fine and it idles about 900rpm. I will check for a vacuum leak.....
Jack, sent you a PM.

Brian