Common Sense from a Polititian What Ever Next!!

[Duncan Potter]

Dean

I understand the emotion thing. Happens to me too. I am sure we would disagree on many practical political issues, and that's fine with me. I'm equally sure we would agree on many others. That is part of what makes this a great country. Too bad we as a country (and our representatives) can't work on the ones we agree on. Maybe we could get something positive done.

I'm with the sheik, though. No matter if you are a parent, teacher, cop on the beat, president, I believe respect must be earned. Nobody owes me any respect. I will get it if I earn it. As far as I am concerned, same goes for everybody else.

Cheers and back to the Jokes and Dilemmas thread!

 

[Chris P.]

Dean - you're right, we apparently do agree on many things. Ideas do get lost in writing in internet forums; it's easy to misinterpret the bottom line. I do, however, have to disagree with the respect thing regarding the president. I imagine that what you mean is the office of the president, and possibly to some degree, the person him/herself. The way I see politics working these days, the person who makes it into office isn't necessarily the top of the list of Americans who are most suited and will be most effective as president. I know Bush bashing runs rampent these days, but I must use him as an example. I really do believe that he never was anything near presidential material. Not even close. He may present himself on the surface as such now, but that is after literally years - almost an entire decade - of being trained and groomed to act as a president. He may have got by as governer, even pretended to be owner of a major league baseball team, but president of the United States? I'm sorry, that takes someone with a lot more. And the fact that he couldn't accept that and leave it for someone more qualified actually disgusts me.

I have a little girl now, 1-1/2 years old. Believe me, if I knew I had to vote for a Bush or put up religious writings in public schools to help make the world better for her, I would do it in a heartbeat. I don't see things like that providing anything constructive to the matter through. (Dean - whether or not you're on the side of religious writing in public or not, I can't remember, I just referenced it again because it was brought up).

I think these discussions are good... I'm glad they can remain civilized here.

 

[Joey Dean]

One thing that has always behooved me is how we can look at a mechanic, see the quality of work he performs, and then make a personal judgement call on how he practices his craft. If he is good, we go to him and recomend him. If not, we post on the forum and he doesn't burn anyone else. Either way, it's about the person. It is not about the trade of working on things mechanical or even the individual car.

I am a practicing Christian. Note that I did preface my description with "practice". I keep in mind that as I practice others are watching and are making judgement calls on how I am doing. I hope that any criticism that is brought forward is directed at me, not God. He isn't the one screwing it up, I am.

If you want to have your car fixed by a person the burns incense and meditates before waiting on the answer from the cosmo's, that is your option. If you want a man (or woman) that has gone to a class or two and has 15 years experience to look at it instead, that is also your call. You get to decide which method is valid. That is called choosing a religion. There is also the chance you just may be a hands on person. Your choice as well.

The fact that many wars have been fought by man against man in the promotion of a religious viewpoint does not condem religion, rather it points out the falibility of mankind. Nothing more or less.

And that is my 2 (currency of choice) about the matter.

 

[Dean Lampe]

Let's not turn this into a big love fest just yet. I really want to go back to respect. I know this thread has drifted SIGNIFICANTLY from the first post but this is really important. Trust is earned. Respect is given. Respect must be given to everyone young and old alike. If something is then done that you don't approve of, they might lose your respect. The problem with your logic is this lack of respect is at the cornerstone of many problems in this country. I was at a fast food restaurant and witnessed a group of kids squirting ketchup all over the table. They had no respect for the person who had to clean it up, the restaurant owner or me when I told them to shape up. There was no opportunity for any of us to earn their respect. Since the owner, the worker and myself had not earned the respect, do you think their lack of respect was justified? I know you don't. Its a loaded question. Should your children hold the door at Wal Mart open for a stranger? Should you say "yes Sir" or "yes ma'am". Do your kids address their elders as Mr. and Mrs.? I would hope so. That is respect. Freely given to friends and strangers.

 

[Joey Dean]

I agree with you, Dean. Worth of respect should be assumed until proven otherwise. I find that this premise is rewarded more often than penalized.

 

Since this tread is now ALL ABOUT RESPECT,,,,

With all due respect,

I lost all respect for him, when he went to Iraq on the cheap (Not that he went to Iraq on a lie, I expect lies from all politicians).

I lost all respect for him when he had problem with the Stem cell reserach.

And the big one,,,I lost all respect for him when he kept Donald Rumsfield (Now this is one guy that should be tried for treason).

Just for the rcord, I also don't have any respect for Bill Clinton.

I have respect for people who earn minimum wage, give their time and money to help someone they have never met, I have respect for people who don't see life as "BLACK & WHITE".

Bad behavior, should never be encouraged, but expected from some "dumb" kids. Adults, specially the ones that hold the Life and death key "over my head", should be scrutinized every moment of the day.

Where is Mick (The Brisbanian)? I want him as my running mate for this year's election. Our platform will be Sharia Law for anyone driving a Chevy and abolishment of Organized religion/crime.

 

[Steve C]

Faili,
WOW.....After reading your last post I think I had you all wrong.

Personally I am an agnostic who believes in a Supreme Being but, not in any organized religion...Religion can and should be a good and useful social tool as it should teach careing and tolerance but, the exclusive "club" stand (ours is salvation theirs is not) of most religions used to "control" causes the problems.

Unfortunately I think your platform of "abolishment of Organized religion" may be the answer to religious radicalism but, if that was out of the way it would be skin color, nationality ect...So your platform is a start but, unfortunately I think we need a common world catastrophy (like an alien invasion) to bring the brotherhood of man together. So let's focus on what we can do in our own countries.

What I think should be THE top priority for America is a political platform that calls for "Energy Independance" with the urgency that Kennedy brought to the "Spcae Race" in the 60's. Being free of the Oil Cartel would allow us to have a much different International political posture but, do you see ANY of the candidates making this a TOP priority..We should go Nuclear NOW (France derives almost 90% of electrical demand from Nuclear, China is building 35 new plants ect, ect ...AND the bulk of Uranium is in North America and Australia. Was first the UK and after WW11 the US through ALL presidential administrations that manipulated Mid East politics in order to keep the masses intoxicated with bread and circus cheap fuel instead of having foresite to develope STRATEGIC independance.

Of course we are in the Middle East for oil but, we didn't need to be there if we had some forethought and don't have to be there in the future IF we take action now. With Nuclear as a core energy supply we can supplement with solar, wind, clean coal and not be looking to harvest our grain crops causing food inflation. Use off peak Nuc plant output to create a Hydrogen fuel delivery system, keep our domestic oil for lubricating and strategic military use and NOT be contolled by bad foreign policy or terrorism. BUTTTT none of the Pols running are making this an issue (YOU tell me why not!)

Any comments?

Steve

 

[Bill Hara]

Easy Money....
- War stimulates economy
- War produces patriotism
- War makes unpopular leaders polular
- War improves the propaganda machine which is useful in so many ways.

The Bush family is apparently very closely linked to the Saudi oil barons and the businesses that operate in war zones costing billions of tax dollars (that end up in their pockets). I know that Australia's obsession with blindly following the US lead would have benefitted some people in Australian Govt or big business too.

Most of the West has underestimated the technological revolution that puts internet into everyone's home and the effects it has on their propaganda machines. As a result, economies in the West are sh*t, Western populations are voting out their political leaders and major portions of the population are awake to the lies being told.

Of course Power is what it is all about and manipulation to hoodwink those that are being controlled. Vast organisations are working on a million scenarios that will allow governments to work around those very laws that are the foundation stones of their democracies, just so that they can manipulate us all in the name of Power to gain money that comes with power.
Manipulation of peoples Religious beliefs is the other form of power, and it also focus' on money, to the detriment of the majority that seek solice from the religion.
After all this, I don't know where it leave us - disillusioned I suppose.

 

[Chris P.]

"What I think should be THE top priority for America is a political platform that calls for "Energy Independance" with the urgency that Kennedy brought to the "Spcae Race" in the 60's."

Well said, and I completely agree. The only reason why we are "piece-mealing" the terrorist effort right now (focusing on areas of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc...) instead of going in full bore is because otherwise we risk losing our main energy source. However, I don't believe that every nation can be energy independent, us included, and therefore we do need to work things out no matter what, but we can certainly shift the energy dependence farther to our own side. Terrorists attack us because, yes, they have twisted minds and beliefs, but you can't ignore the fact that there is something there that sparked the drive to do so. There is a reason why they attack who they attack. Religion is a scapegoat at best; the fact that we can't seem to keep our fingers out of their business and our military off their land is a prime suspect. The only reason why we would be doing those things is because we have some sort of important interest over. That interest, of course, is energy (and Israel of course - that religion thing again...)

If you step back and look at all of this, we're no different than a bunch of cave men running around fighting each other over natural resources except for the technology involved.

 

[Steve C]

Chris,

Truth is we really could be and can be energy independant. As I have stated above North America and Australia have the bulk of Uranium ore and enough to supply their needs for generations or untill a better alternative is found. We could jointly form a Uranium Cartel. Danger is that most of the Uranium reserves are owned by Public Co's and China's thirst for Uranium is and will be such and thier war chest of our $ so great that they will and are beginning to buy up our mining assest (so what do we do when we wake up...buy Uranium from them!). Do you hear any Pols talking about this?

Unfortunately redirecting our energy use from oil and natural gas for electrical generation can't happen overnight as we have languished too long without building the necessary infrastructure but, it's never too late untill it truely is too late (so we better get going but, no one is making it a priority). Nuclear power is safe..The US Navy has NEVER had a Nuclear incident due to training, and plant standardization...Ditto with the French. And the ammount of nuclear wast is miniscule and can be safely handled.

With a hydrogen economy possible by using disassociation of H2O in off peak we can eventually use oil only for lubrication, and military uses easily supported by our own domestic production.

The problem is that we are all too shortsighted (particullarly our politicians) and it's far easier to deal with the devil and or force our needs on others than plan for the future and invest (even China is planning ahead and has more than 30 Nuc plants under construction, doing trade deals with Cuba to drill in the Gulf...yes our own Gulf of Mex where the US enviornmentalists want to stop us ect).

If we want to keep the economy going we need oil for now and no matter who gets into office they will UNFORTUNATELY need to maintain the "status quo" in the oil producing areas (read military presence) as the only option is a contacting economy or lights out.

We need to Suck it up and plan now ...Drill now while we develop Nuclear, implement as many other alternative methods but, realize that solar/wind /geo are only fractionally helpful and we need to stop using grain as fuel before food inflation really hits home.

When will the Pols stop pandering to the voters, developing policy around the poll of the day and get some guts to prioritize an energy policy that is in the interest of ALL the electorate not just this or that special interest or voting block.

We gotta wake up!

Steve

 

"What I think should be THE top priority for America is a political platform that calls for "Energy Independance" with the urgency that Kennedy brought to the "Spcae Race" in the 60's."

Allah (Steve C) be praised,,, Could not agree more

"If you step back and look at all of this, we're no different than a bunch of cave men running around fighting each other over natural resources except for the technology involved."

Chris P well said, praise upon thee as well

 

[Chris Duncan]

The illegals are here because the (republican) corps want them here, because they want cheap labor. It drives down the price of all labor. They got together with the corrupt elite in Mexico and did away with many farming jobs there to further the migration into the US.

The good jobs are being shipped overseas with tax breaks to the companies that do so. Those tax breaks put in place by a majority of repugs.

In '05 bush met with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to discuss the NAU. North American Union. Imagine the Amero. Get used to it. The richest of the rich who control the world want a one world government. They already have the EU. Iraq and Iran are being oppressed because Islam won't go along with it. Illegal immigration fits right in, you have to average the wage before you can join the labor pools.

Organized religion is a tool to subjugate the masses. Christianity was formed by the emperor Constantine. He cherry picked 4 gospels, there were about 60 at the time. There is no historic or archaeological record of Jesus or most of the characters in the bible and Christianity is a near carbon copy of many previous religions and paganism when you look at it's basic points like, a son of God, 12 disciples, rising from the dead after 3 days, 10 commandments, etc etc.

The richest of the rich, the richest 300 individuals in the world pull all the strings. Their power is centered in 3 places, the 3 city states, think about it. WA DC, the center of London, and the Vatican. These 3 city states are wholly separate from the countries that surround them.

When I think of the Vatican I think of enough horded wealth to feed all the worlds poor 10 times over. And I think of people that cozied up to Hitler and ended up with stolen Nazi loot from Swiss banks, and protecting and covering up pedophile priests for decades. I think of a backwards and outdated advocacy of no birth control when overpopulation is one of the primary problems.

When I think of "faith based initiative" I think of money for the corrupt televangelists like Pat Robertson, who does the photo opp loading his plane with relief supplies then reloading it with equipment for his 3rd world gold mining operations.

We lost the American democratic republic in 1913 when congress was tricked into forming the Federal Reserve. It's a PRIVATE bank owned by 10 large banks, 7 of which are now offshore. They print paper money and loan it to the government and the taxpayer pays just the interest. 100 % of the federal income tax goes to pay just the interest on the national debt. This "tax" is a transfer of wealth mechanism, that's all. Remember also that the constitution says the national bank is supposed to be run by congress.

During the Reagan years we went from the world's largest lender nation to the world's largest debtor nation. They did away with the laws and regs governing savings and loans and they (mostly repugs) bilked the taxpayer to the tune of 500 billion (1.5 trillion with interest). Now the same thing has happened with Enron and the mortgage crisis. Do away with the rules first so you don't have to break them, take the money and leave the taxpayers with the bill plus interest.

Now they have taken the vote with computer machines. 80 percent of the vote nationwide is done on computer machines built sold and maintained by 3 PRIVATE (repug) companies. On Windows(ha ha) machines with closed source software not available for public inspection. With no national standards. The national totals are gathered by a private company controlled by the corporate media. Remember the constitution says congress is supposed to tally the vote.

I love this country although it's going downhill for the working man. I respect the office of the president. The current pResident has many times over earned my disrespect. He should be tried for treason because he has commited many treasonable offenses. It will never happen because the bush crime family make the mafia look like schoolboys. Cross them and wind up dead. Small planes are their specialty. Pelosi will never impeach, probably got the horses head in the bed, works every time.

Modern wars are fought for profit. "Terrorism" is just the fabricated boogie man. After the (exaggerated) Russians folded enter...."terrorism" as the new more flexible "enemy". The richest 300 fabricate the excuse and then work both sides of all the major modern wars. Hitler was brought to power with a huge amount of money, much of it from American companies and one major US bank in particular, Brown Brothers Harriman. The CEO at the time was Prescott Bush, dumbya's grandfather. His bank was shut down 1 year after we went to war by the "trading with the enemies act" and all funds confiscated, but 5 year later Prescott got his money back. Money earned partly from the slave camps of the Nazis, the start of the bush family fortune.

911 was an inside job fabricated by the richest 300, OK city was the trial run, same MO, smaller operation. Kissinger was secretly taped at a Builderberg meeting, "we need a new pearl harbor, even if we have to create one". The masses don't want war because they are the ones doing the dying, you have to give them a reason.

Clinton was a conservative, impeachment was just a distraction, he brought us NAFTA and degregd the media. The corporate media that's gone from 50 owners to just 6 in the last 20 years. Consolidation means easier control by the 300. They control 100% of the TV. Orwell was very prescient. 90 percent of Americans get all their news from the TV. Control the TV, control Americans.

With control of the TV they pick the pres candidates that we pick from. Without TV exposure you are not viable. If a pol makes it on TV you can be sure they are already vetted by the 300.

Warrantless wiretapping started with Clinton before 911. Argue all you want that we need it to fight the (fake) "terror". What it represents is a destruction of the separation of powers. The founders created the 3 branches so that no one would gain dictatorial type powers. A warrant means involving one of the other 2. Congress just passed a law giving retroactive immunity to the telecoms that were assisting, that means the dems are also down with this creeping fascism.

Gitmo is another fascist tendency. Afghan "Terrorists" rounded up, and without any trial or conviction, tortured. They were collected by means of bounties. For $5000 warlords etc were turning in anybody that was handy. As a sign of what's really true 400 of them have already been released without ever being tried or convicted of anything. And now with only one branches say so you are either guilty or innocent and will be put before a secret military tribunal (controlled by the executive) and executed. And this includes American citizens, you don't ever even know who because it's kept secret.

And as regards waterboarding, it has long been known as torture ever since the Spanish inquisition, in spite of the bush toadie's denials. After WW2 the US actually tried, convicted, and executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding our soldiers, so don't tell me it's not an international crime. After all that's why the Geneva conventions were written, to avoid more fascist atrocities.

This pres admin has gone more and more towards a fascist state, trying to concentrate all power in that one branch. With hundreds of "signing statements" basically saying "I'm signing this congressional bill with my own overriding statement attached". Ignoring subpoenas and court orders, etc etc. If this is achieved it's just like the media consolidation. All power with just one office means it's easier to control by the 300.

The only loose cannon at this point is the internet. Information and education is freedom and they don't have control of that yet. Oh, and turn off your TV. Or at least realize what it is.

 

[Cliff Beer]

OK, so everyone agrees that Bush is both a) an idiot and not qualified to be President, and b) the Bush family is closely aligned with Big Oil and therefore they do not hold a balanced perspective in the oil-motivated US presence in Iraq. That all seems pretty clear.

Here's where the heart of the energy debate lies: Big Oil is in so deep with Congressional members via PACs and lobbyist "soft money" that effecting a major change to national energy policy is going to be tough, and most initiatives are more about talk than about real change. Big Oil doesn't want to see a functioning national distribution system for hydrogen (a viable energy alternative to fossil fuels) because that would fundamenally change the status quo economics for them in a negative manner.

Incidentally, Big Oil reported the largest profits in 2007 ever in their industry history and, indeed, ever in US history for any industry. Who in the industry is going to want that to change? Of course they don't want any real change, and they'll pay off enough US Congressional Members via PACs/re-election funds and lobbyist "soft money" (translation: example, all expenses paid trips via private jet for Congressional Members and their families to exotic locations and the like) to keep things as they are. The rubber only hits the road when you vote out Congressional Members who take Big Oil money and vote in those who haven't yet been bought. And, don't expect a single President to bring about change on this front, no one President can take on 500 Congressional and Senate Members who have been "bought" and win.

OK, I'm done bitching.

 

[Chris P.]

Steve and Cliff - right on. Steve, I know we can't just jump off oil, that's why it's so hard to accept drilling somewhere else - we're shooting ourselves in the foot, but at this point we have no choice. When I said we can't truly be energy independent, I meant every nation on Earth can't be. Someone will always be deficient in something - that's just geography. Like you said, the U.S. may have all we need to function, but someone else won't and they will either fight us for it or we work with them. That's not independence. Besides, at the rate things are going, that may become a large part of our export revenue. We may become the OPEC of nuclear materials!

 

[Chris P.]

Kalun - I just went back and read your reply. Now, I'm not knocking you, so don't take this wrong, but I hope what you wrote is verifiable only because anyone who isn't on your side of these issues will label you a tin-hat wearing loony. I'm on your side - the consolidation of power in our government is a frightening thing and something I have been watching myself. Speaking of watching, my wife and I stopped watching TV back in 1998 when the damn thing broke. We've never bought a new one and don't plan on it either. Boy, how much more time there is now to get things done!

The Bush dynasty, I think, is a pretty good indication of the direction we're heading. The interesting thing is, at the rate we are populating this planet, we are going to need a unified global society within probably then next century to deal with all the issues with such a large population density. It's just common sense - you can only get so much juice out of a lemon. (And no, I didn't do any calculations to come with the figure of one century - I pulled it out of my be-hind!!!)

 

[Dean Lampe]

I have never seen a group of heterosexual men that have such a hatred for bush!boomsmile

Where do you guys get your information? You guys seem to be awfully well informed. You clearly have it all figured out.

Actually it is pretty comical.

You guys could be poster kids for "Code Pink".

I see the love fest of earlier threads has come to pass. Lets start a new thread and discuss the election here in the US. That should be interesting!

Kalun, I my eyes you are very misguided. I really feel sorry for you. From your demented view of the US, it looks pretty bad. You have evidently been corrupted by the left wing radical extremist. I have never heard so much crap typed in one post! Go ahead and post again, take a stab at me. I expect that. What would surprise me would be if you actually offered some sort of intelligent solutions to anything going on in our country today.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I wish that our lot had the balls to make statements like this!


Prime Minister John Howard - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Andy

Errr. We seem to have drifted just a tad of topic.

Interesting thread though.:lurker:

 

“Pinkos” AND “Homosexual” Bush bashers,, and of course the “Demented one” Kalun D,,,,And FOR SURE WE HAVE No Nazis with G string Swastikas here.

Please,,,Please let’s be RESPECTFUL here,,,


We should be more respectful towards our present and past leaders,,,,

George Junior the Idiot

Bill the Pedophile

Ronnie the Liar (“can’t recall”, Leave Oliver the Idiot to hang dry)

Richard the criminal

With the above choices WITH ALL DUE RESPECT,,,I would think Larry Flynt would meet or exceed the above requirements

 

[Doug Clark]

"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It."

Absolutely true I've immigrated to two countries and have had to adapt in both of them, what is also true is that just by being there an immigrant changes the country that they've moved to in a small way.

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"

Should read:

We speak mainly ENGLISH, but we also speak Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, and any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn a language!'

"'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

Complete cobblers, less than 10% of the population actually goes to church regularly, most people I'm sure are agnostic and only as they haven't actually thought the issue through.

 

[DBLDREW]

911 was an inside job fabricated by the richest 300, OK city was the trial run, same MO, smaller operation. Kissinger was secretly taped at a Builderberg meeting, "we need a new pearl harbor, even if we have to create one". The masses don't want war because they are the ones doing the dying, you have to give them a reason.

Oh god not another “loose Change” believer. Read this before you spout your nonsense..

There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.