Coolant Leak

[Brett James-McCall]

Jac, it's being able to get the bolt out that is the isse. The flange is deeper than a traditional one and the timing cover is not allowing it to be removed. I can get the spanner in but after a while you can't then get it out to turn.

Howard, got some JB Weld. I assume if I clean and prep by using a Dremmel carefully and then clean with Brake Cleaner and Isopropyl that will be enough? Thanks

 

[Jac Mac]

Is there a steel sandwich plate between the water pump and timing cover ( yes I realise that your using the electric pump and empty water pump housing ).
If that is the case ( sandwich plate type) then it is quite safe to grind away the timing cover at that point to allow spanner access, a dremel and carbide cutter should do it. [ no coolant at that point with that type of pump & sandwich plate].

 

[Adrian]

Hello Brett
I found your thread re coolant leak.
I have the same problem, but my leak is from the front of the head/inlet manifold joint. The coolant is wicking along the inlet manifiold gasket as they are made from fibre. I have asked all over if anyone has a solution. I have just had a chat with Mathwell and apparantly they have the same problem. I use the best inlet gaskets available.
As for your holes in the parts you cannot take off the engine, you should be able to tig the holes over with part still on the engine with or without the coolant still in the engine. I have done this in the past.
I use Cometic cylinder heads gaskets and the Ultra seal inlet gaskets from Real Steel. Unfortunately the inlet gaskets still leaked.
It needs an inlet gasket like the Rover V8 material which is tin with a rubber face so there would be no wicking of coolant.
Hope this helps
Adrian

 

[Brett James-McCall]

So quick update having completed the JB Weld on the thermostat housing and getting a new hose joiner.

The join is now even worse and leaking down very quickly under pressure test, so I think that it is a poor silicone fit for the 38mm joiner (or the stainless pipe I had before).

So beyond getting a new hose, could I 'build up' the joiner or old pipe piece by using some old bike inner tube over the joiner/pipe? For info the other end of the hose that connects to the DC temp sender housing is fine.

Thanks
Brett

 

[Brett James-McCall]

So now I think I have all the hose and other bits fixed and it appears that I am left with this :thumbsdown:

I assume this will mean heads off and inspect. First pic is the N/S and the system is pressurised up to 14.5 PSI (1 bar) and after 45 mins it had dropped to just under 14.

Any thoughts would be great so if required I can order parts for next week so I can stop hating my car at the minute... Thanks

 

[Randy V]

Brett - obviously this is not good and will likely result in pulling the heads.
However - before you do that..
Have you put teflon thread sealant on those studs beforeyou installed them?
Those studs that go into blind holes don't require it, but those that have coolant behind them certainly do..

You may be able to get by - by draining the coolant and removing the studs one at a time, cleaning and putting sealant on the threads, then reinstalling and torqueing to spec.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Thanks Randy. Yep have already pulled all the studs out and reinstalled with sealant Bugger, I think is the politer phrase

Brett

 

[Jac Mac]

Looking at the cyl head pics... there seems to be a lot of spare thread above each nut on the head studs which begs the following questions.
1. Over the years there have been several evolutions of studs etc to handle the different cyl head/block combos.
2. Could you have ended up with longer stud/shallow head casting combo with the result of nut bottoming out on thread and reduced clamping force.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Jac nuts are torqued down to 70 ft/lb, I re-tightened when I initially thought I had a problem. So if I have longer studs, what would you suggest? Washers on top of the hats (they have the 1/2" hat reducers)?

Brett

 

[Brett James-McCall]

So this is what the NS looks like having taken the head off tonight; this was the worst side under the pressure test.

I rechecked the deck and I couldn't get a .0025 feeler in anywhere (that's the thinnest I have), so am now baffled as to why this is happened. Here's the deck and head face

It also looks like there is enough thread on the stud as well.

Any suggestions/further thoughts from anyone please? Studs are coming out and going to be reinserted with PTFE tape (they did have sealant, but in places this appeared to follow the threads) and new gaskets will be bought. Thanks in advance

Brett

 

[Terry Oxandale]

In the third photo, is that scoring, or some kind of scratches on the far side of the bolt hole/water passage? I know that I had to pay particular attention to a fairly smooth surface on the heads and deck to ensure a good seal.

Perhaps it's just the photo as well, but the deck looks pretty rough in the second photo...again, it could just be the appearance in the photo.

 

[Jac Mac]

Comments on pic below- sorry to say this Brett, but start again- Block still has Ford Factory machine marks and is an early version with blind stud holes so there should be no water in them and NO sealant required! These blocks require either three or four holes drilled to match HEAD & Gasket as shown [X] for steam venting in block. You also have excess piston to deck clearance going by #8 if @ TDC (6&7 appear to be equal so it must be close ).
If I was doing it 1/2" studs & convert to 289/Boss302 rods would be the go to make some good power , plus while its out you can throw that stupid thermostat housing over the back fence!

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Obviously, I am more than gutted with this.

So it looks as though I will have to pull the engine and take it back to base *cry*

Jac, I assume the 1/2" studs to use should be the ARP code 4003?

Thanks, I've got over my hissy fit now this morning and resigned to doing the right thing (just need to find the cash now)

Brett

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Having had a quick Google, I think I will have to go for your option 2 Jac. The 5.155 rods seem to be less available than the 5.09 (I have the Eagle I beam press fits) and considerably pricier. It's about getting the car finished and on the road now after a decade of on and off build.

 

[NickD]

Brett,

Sorry to see this thread, I reckon you will need your engine stand back soon, let me know.

Best Regards.



Nick.

 

[Jac Mac]

Yes, those 351w studs are the ones, I see they have the option for smaller integral washer hex nuts- that take up less space etc, worth having to enable re-torque etc without header removal. Got a couple of 'tricks' I will draw up in morning to make drill/rethread to 1/2' UNC of block 'Brett' friendly. What is the actual amount from piston to deck surface at TDC at moment? Was wondering today how long did motor have coolant added to system before you first noted the leak that started this thread, reason being a few years ago I bought some head gaskets that had sat on a shelf for some time- really old stock!- and obviously now in a damp environment. These had 'imploded' by virtue of the inner perforated metal layer corroding and destroying the gasket internally, given your build time this might be a factor also, but given the appearance of the factory machine surface on your block I consider that the more likely culprit.... after midnight here, Im hitting the pillow!

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Why couldn't you re-deck the block? It would appear you've got lots of room at the top, and if the deck surface is un-touched from previous decking, I would think this would be a viable alternative to starting over.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Was wondering today how long did motor have coolant added to system before you first noted the leak that started this thread, reason being a few years ago I bought some head gaskets that had sat on a shelf for some time- really old stock!- and obviously now in a damp environment. These had 'imploded' by virtue of the inner perforated metal layer corroding and destroying the gasket internally, given your build time this might be a factor also, but given the appearance of the factory machine surface on your block I consider that the more likely culprit.... after midnight here, Im hitting the pillow!

I put the motor together a few years ago and it has sat there in the garage with no coolant or oil, just assembly lube until the other month, so not sure if that has any adverse effect.

Regarding what to do. I don't want to say the word cheap, as that gets a whole load of counselling I'd like it to be as cost effective and reuse as much as I have already purchased. As it has to get decked, I will have to strip it, so it's just unexpected cost at this point in the build. If it has to be, it has to be though.

Jac, hope your boys do well tonight. I have beers riding on it, I said they will put double digit tries past Georgia...

Brett

 

[Jac Mac]

Why couldn't you re-deck the block? It would appear you've got lots of room at the top, and if the deck surface is un-touched from previous decking, I would think this would be a viable alternative to starting over.

Sorry if I have mislead you Terry, 'starting over' meant stripping down the engine to allow it to have the deck surfaces skimmed/machined. In parts it should only cost- pan, timing cover, head gaskets, 351 head studs and machine work. I don't want to start a debate on Head Gaskets but Im not a fan of that type Brett used.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Jac,
I bought them many years ago before I knew any better (not sure I know better now mind you).

What gaskets would you recommend please? Here in the UK a lot of the places seem to be Fel-Pro stockists.

Going to take the other head and measure TDC and clearance to current block hopefully this weekend.

Brett