Fords 32 Valve SBF heads

[Mike Huddart]

We are back to the copper head gaskets again, more or less the same valve/rocker layout to the 1934 ERA, R2A, that we used to run here in the UK. It was a conversion to a '20s Riley block, the horizontal pushrods ran in little tubes between the rocker covers. Things looked awfully busy at 7000 rpm!
Nothing really new then.
We ran the car for five or six years and held the 1500cc vintage lap record at every track we ran at. The car is in the US now, not sure who.

Mike

 

[Kazoom]

Hi, some of you may also know of GM's own multi valve prototype that used a simular pushrod setup.

Also the Thunder Power 4V heads also use a simular pushrod deal.

Valley Head Service

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[Cliff Beer]

I can't imagine a 4V head could ever work very well with a pushrod design.... A single overhead cam makes sense, a double overhead cam makes even more sense.

 

[Kazoom]

Diffrent versions of multi valve pushrod tech has been around since 1915 on indian and harley race bikes and forward to modern gas engines of today inc many diesels.

Indian 1915 8 valve boardtrack film.wmv - YouTube

This 4V tech has been proven to work well in the past and present. In the past, usa industry politics had more to do with why americans were so far behind compared to the rest of the world with multi valve tech. One of the leaders in this tech was Mr Feuling (RIP) untill he passed away with his 4V HD design pushrod heads.

Mr Feuling also used modded versions of these same HD pushrod heads on a little 135ci vw test engine and the thing made over 400+HP... and this was with a even more complicated intermediate rocker box...

Feuling

Today the Zodiac race bike has been ripping off 6.60's using this same 4V pushrod tech as an example...

Zodiac's Top Fuel SuperTwin Drag Race Team

and also 9 time champion Mr McClure (RIP) was also doing 6.40's with this same 4v pushrod tech.

Most dont know but in the past, if it was not for the politics at the time OLDS was ready to mass produce a W43 4V pushrod 455.

Feature Article

a bit more info on the OLDS W43 32 valve pushrod engine.

The W43: Oldsmobile’s DOHC 455 V8 That Never Was - StreetLegalTV

OLDSmobility.com • View topic - "455 Olds DOHC Street Hemi"

OLDSmobility.com • View topic - "Olds Super Rocket" (DOHC 455 Hemi)

So YES... multi valve pushrod heads do work very well.

 

[Cliff Beer]

That's wonderful, very interesting to see that design taken to its extreme.

Yes, it may work, but my point is that an overhead cam is going to work a whole lot better. You don't need to take my word for it, just take a look at F1 design history and it's quite clear, for example.

But again, fascinating to see the variety of engineering possibilities with 4V heads - thanks for posting the pics and data here.

 

[Kazoom]

Hi, well I agree the dohc design could/may well be the ultimate example for multi valve tech, especially for very high rpm performance. Though this same multi valve tech also has its place with lower rpm pushrod engines as it can offer a better power curve and superior curtain flow area to any 2 valve head out there. There can also be some benefits to multi valve pushrod setups as it offers a smaller package and the possible use of higher valve lifts than ohc designs. Where allowed in competition, the multi valve pushrod heads WILL dominate over the inferior 2 valve pushrod heads as no 2 valve head out there can out flow a simular well designed multi valve head. A good example of this in racing is DB industrys billet 3 valve hemi pushrod head with forked rockers and shaft system from the 80s that set records and killed ALL the 2 valve hemi head competiton to the point that nhra had his (and others) multi valve heads outlawed because the 2 valve hemi guys could not keep up. Notice how simular the chamber is to the one mr Feuling is holding, I believe this is what Benz copyed for there multi valve.

Dave Benjamin's "Hard Parts"

This might also interest some of you, is a 4 valve pushrod Vtwin record holder (green one/overkill racing) going up against a 2 valve pushrod Vtwin counter part, you can see the 4V Feuling head logo on the top corner of the rocker box...

OVERKILL RACING SANDDRAGS.3.61 at104 mph .142 in - Car Videos on StreetFire

I also forgot to mention before how simular the newer Guzzi Griso 8V pushrod head design is to the old Feuling 4v pushrod head design.

nice looking bike imo.
2008 Moto Guzzi Griso 8V - Motorcycle.com

The life and times of CWPG: Guzzi 4 valve head

Getting back to the 4v dohc engines just for a bit, imo today one of the guys to look too for what multi valve tech can really do is Mihovetz with his little tiny 280ci 4V engine with stock modded factory head castings beating 500+ci custom $$$ headed hemi's. I bet he will be into the 5.90s with it soon enough.
LUCAS OIL ~ John Mihovetz 6.19 @ 235 - YouTube

Another awesome new 4 valve head that I am sure will be making 2 valve guys cry alot with there new monstar 4V head.

MonStar Head Indeed! George Bryce gives detail on 4 valve version and we have pics! : Dragbike Live.com

3 hp per ci
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=450789

 

[Jim]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

Hi Kaz, That is one awesome engine! If I were building it, I would ditch the carbs and use electonic fuel injection. Noting that you are from Calgary, you have a terrific stand alone electronic fuel injection/ignition controller maker, SDS EFI.com. With their system, you can ditch your distributor (using it to drive the oil pump only) and you don't even need a computer to operate it. Tuning is done via a hand held keypad. Fuel separation in manifolds becomes a thing of the past with port injection. Big ports are no problem. Why even NASCAR has gone fuel injection. A read of SDS EFI.com's web site is also very explanatory on how modern electronic fuel injection works.

ranger jim

 

[Cliff Beer]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

This whole thread just reeks of sneaky self-serving product promotion....

 

[Kazoom]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

I will look into it Jim thanks, the Simple Digital System EM-5 site is very interesting. I have been thinking about diffrent options as I still have not got the carbs or the rest of the goodies I need.

A few more detail pics for you Cliff, enjoy:laugh:, BTW its been 4 fricken years waiting for new C blocks for me with NO luck, I just finaly got my 2gand in deposits back this month after asking for my money back a year ago and I even also LOST a few hundred dollars over all this bs. 4 YEARS of WAITING for Nothing so waiting 6+mo for Hal to make custom made heads was nothing compared to this C block gong show.

 

[George]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

Hi Kazoom,

I myself was looking to get a 4 valves per cylender for a Ford Engine considering all exotic cars run 4 valves per cylender. Not sure what it adds though considering 550hp can be made with 2v per cylender, what would 4v do for it? Increase RPM range? Increase the size of the power curve?

Either way, something I have learned, and my advice to you, you can not go around calling this or that 'crap'. 2v may not be your thing, but if it was 'crap' it would have been replaced and not so widely used. It may not suit what you want, but crap? By what standard? If it breaks down, doesnt work, has faults and so forth, yeah, crap may be acceptable, but to call a perfectly good working system crap, is a little over-opinionated.

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

It may not suit what you want, but crap? By what standard? If it breaks down, doesnt work, has faults and so forth, yeah, crap may be acceptable, but to call a perfectly good working system crap, is a little over-opinionated.

Aw come on, why buy good two valve heads that you can use now when you could spend your money and dream for years about what the four valve heads might do for you?

 

[Kazoom]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

LOL mr Earp, looks like you are also bothered by what I spend my money on... how wonderfully sad:thumbsup:

G-man, when I first used the word "crap" it was refering to crap small intake port stuff which may be ok in some small ci street stuff... but considering the boss 302 with its "too big" as some might claim int ports had no problems winning trans am championships against other smaller int port engines at the time, what I was saying is all this small port "crap" is BS. I believe I mentioned that I was bored with 2 valve crap/stuff, I did not mean it as no good, but the fact is there is NO 2 valve head out there that can out flow a simular well designed multi valve head which can offer a better torque curve and Superior curtain flow area to 2v stuff. Again here is some independent flow info showing no 2 valve head can match the low and mid lift flow #'s my 4v Dominion heads have which equals better/more cyl fill at high lifts. anyway yes I have my opinions and they are mine and again I was bored with 2v crap... sorry... STUFF if that makes you happy as I did not mean to offend 2v guys and is why I was looking to get into 4v stuff.


Dominion heads half way down page.
Ford Head Flow Data and Specs

btw if you were serious about looking for 4V pushrod stuff I would of suggested to try Hal at Dominion Performance inc from who I got mine from but unfortunaly he has just passed away late last year. The early 90's factory 5.0 Ford 32 valve pushrod heads would be another ultra trick option if you can find any for sale.

 

[George]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

Aw come on, why buy good two valve heads that you can use now when you could spend your money and dream for years about what the four valve heads might do for you?

Considering the car I am trying to make up of all the unobtanium, I probably have time to source this to :grinf::laugh:

But in all seriousness, it seems going this 4v stuff is how you say, pointless exercise and time wasted for what, 300hp? You can contact John Kass and he will build you a dart block, full alloy, 700+ HP out of a small block stroked to even 454ci if you wanted to go stupid, and 7000rpm safe range of operation. Once again, 32v for 300hp?

I would rather the car on the road ASAP than waiting all this time for something that 2v could have easily over-produced. Also if something goes wrong with the 4v, how long will you have to wait again before a replacement or whatever needed takes place since you cant just get it when ever you want?

Sounds too pain staking for '300' hp. If you were talking 800+ I would understand.

 

[Kazoom]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

LOL G-man, so I guess what you are saying is FORD got things all wrong going with 4 valves on there modulars and diesels???, boy what about all the 4v imports and 4v exotics lol.

The fact is most those 700+ hp deals using 2v heads your talking about are not everyday pump gas streetable as your talking about avg 300+ pounds of valve seat pressure with .800"+ lift cams with durations that would make those engines idle like belarus tractors. no thanks, been there done that. using a 4v head can make as much or more hp and have nice street manners

Anyway it is not "too pain staking" for me at all lol, this is my... HOBBY! so I do this for FUN! not "ASAP" because its the only car I have or can afford and need it asap to drive to work, I allready have other same ol same ol 2 valve crap for that lol.

Mihovetz has shown how good 32 valve tech is with his little tiny 280ci 32valve stock head casting beating 500+ci custom $$$ headed 2v engines with it. I understand he's making over 2500hp, not bad for a little 280ci 4v engine.
LUCAS OIL ~ John Mihovetz 6.19 @ 235 - YouTube

 

[Kazoom]

A few more pics of Fords factory 5.0 32V sbf pushrod heads.

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: 428 RPM MAXX block / 32 Valve Ford Heads

LOL mr Earp, looks like you are also bothered by what I spend my money on... how wonderfully sad:thumbsup:

No, I'm not bothered by what you spend your money on. I am concerned by is your reluctance to accept the fact that many people have had a lot of problems with the four valve head suppliers and end up ripped off with no product in hand.

Dominion performance = Arao, correct?

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/feedback...-fraud-arao-engineering-inc-buyer-beware.html

 

[Kazoom]

Ron Earp, you have a metal issue...

you deleted my engine thread...

because you in fantasy land...

I BOUGHT MY HEADS FROM DOMINION PERFORMACE.

There were TWO... 2 diffrent companys/ suppyers for heads.

MY heads were made and sold by Hal Carlson...

how many fricken times do I need to say this dummy.

 

[Kazoom]

Ron earp

Ron Earp, you have a metal issue...

you deleted my engine thread...

because you in fantasy land...

I BOUGHT MY HEADS FROM DOMINION PERFORMACE.

There were TWO... 2 diffrent companys/ suppyers for these heads.

MY heads were made and sold by Hal Carlson...

how many fricken times do I need to say this dummy.


Dominion Performace inc. run/owned by Hal Carlson

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: Ron earp

Ron Earp, you have a metal issue...

you deleted my engine thread...

No sir, I merged your two four valve Ford head threads into one, which is common practice on the forum and has been for twelve years when we have two threads on the same topic running at the same time.

Sorry about my confusion, it comes from maybe misinterpreting articles about the various heads:

Dominion Four-Valve Cylinder Head Performance Test - Hot Rod Magazine

Which states:

Dominion's Russ Arao assembled....​

Which indicates there is some connection between the two.

As for the name calling, well, I'll leave that to you to decide if it is appropriate or not.

By the way, the forum has rules:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/introduce-yourself-here/27555-rules-gt40s-com.html

Please comply with rule #2 immediately.

Thank you,
Ron

 

[Kazoom]

You are not very smart.

READ THE ARTICALS... Hals name is mentioned a good few times...

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/feedback...raud-arao-engineering-inc-buyer-beware-4.html

I am done with your messed up thinking

Last thing, the fact is if ARAO ripped me off I could EASLY have him arrested for fraud as I am NOT an american and this HELPS ME or anyone else that is NOT american. This info I got direct from your COPS down there when I got jacked around for another set of bike heads.

its been done easly... so if arao ripped you off... do what you need to do...

TY's MUGSHOT

I am done with your screwed up mind and your screwed up site.