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Fords 32 Valve SBF heads
- Thread starter kazoom
- Start date
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Aw, gee, we scared him off... what a shame.
Maybe he had something to do with the Arao guys. He was certainly their only defender.
It's a shame. Four valve heads for pushrod motors would be very cool, if only you could just actually BUY them....
Maybe I'll retire from medicine and go into the four-valve-head racket. I'll hire Kazoom to be my PR manager.....
Maybe he had something to do with the Arao guys. He was certainly their only defender.
It's a shame. Four valve heads for pushrod motors would be very cool, if only you could just actually BUY them....
Maybe I'll retire from medicine and go into the four-valve-head racket. I'll hire Kazoom to be my PR manager.....
Ron Earp
Admin
I like four valve push rod heads. Lord knows I've spent enough money on Ford engines over the years to buy a set, but I'm sorry, where there is smoke there is fire. And there has always been a bunch of smoke, and a few mirrors, around the vendors of four valve push rod heads for Ford and Chevys. Sorry if "whatever his name was" doesn't like people pointing it out, but if he understood a bit about my history of getting burned on cars/parts he might just sympathize with my skepticism, or at least agree to disagree.
George
CURRENTLY BANNED
Well at least this tread helped me to not waste time with the whole 4v Idea.
Anyone know what the problem is to manufacturing such a thing considering Ferrari and so forth all use 4v on their V8s etc?
Why cant someone just drill a few extra holes and make it work?
Sorry, but clearly I am not mechanicaly inclined given the above statement:lipsrsealed:
Ron I can totaly understand your sentiments. I myself have lost thousands on mechanics that were supposed to do a job and did not and turned around and said they did not even know what I was talking about and would charge me for leaving my car at their workspace randomly, and if it was not gone in in 24 hours they would tow it away to get burned up. So when I did things with a 'real' so called company, they told me $2500 for the work I inteded to get done on it and to expect change from that. 2 weeks later I got a phone call the car is ready to collect. I came in the shop and a beautiful $4700 invoice got issued and a bunch of excuses why half of the stuff could not get done (and ofcourse this is where they lost a lot of time trying to work out how to make it work but could not and thus the increase in price). Not to mention I paid 35,000 for a 70 Dodge Challenger that was meant to be completed about 7 years ago, the car is STILL at the guys house and nothing can be done about it because it was baught as a resto-project, so it does not really belong to anyone unless it is registered on the road which of course it is not.
Come to think of it, the amount of BS here, I could have had a GT40 already. :embarassed:
Well come to think of it, that is probably why I have so many detailed questions about who is what, who does what, what peoples experiences are with these people, how reliable is the information, what can and can not be done and etc etc, but I generaly keep those things to myself.
Anyone know what the problem is to manufacturing such a thing considering Ferrari and so forth all use 4v on their V8s etc?
Why cant someone just drill a few extra holes and make it work?
Sorry, but clearly I am not mechanicaly inclined given the above statement:lipsrsealed:
Ron I can totaly understand your sentiments. I myself have lost thousands on mechanics that were supposed to do a job and did not and turned around and said they did not even know what I was talking about and would charge me for leaving my car at their workspace randomly, and if it was not gone in in 24 hours they would tow it away to get burned up. So when I did things with a 'real' so called company, they told me $2500 for the work I inteded to get done on it and to expect change from that. 2 weeks later I got a phone call the car is ready to collect. I came in the shop and a beautiful $4700 invoice got issued and a bunch of excuses why half of the stuff could not get done (and ofcourse this is where they lost a lot of time trying to work out how to make it work but could not and thus the increase in price). Not to mention I paid 35,000 for a 70 Dodge Challenger that was meant to be completed about 7 years ago, the car is STILL at the guys house and nothing can be done about it because it was baught as a resto-project, so it does not really belong to anyone unless it is registered on the road which of course it is not.
Come to think of it, the amount of BS here, I could have had a GT40 already. :embarassed:
Well come to think of it, that is probably why I have so many detailed questions about who is what, who does what, what peoples experiences are with these people, how reliable is the information, what can and can not be done and etc etc, but I generaly keep those things to myself.
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Ron Earp
Admin
The push rod 4V head idea isn't new as you can see on some some old 4V head links. But the problem is volume. The companies that have made them have only ever made tens, maybe hundreds of sets and they have never been mass produced. Therefore, even if the companies were stable and producing a low volume the heads would be expensive. Not too many guys around willing to pony up $8k for a set of heads with very little or no reliability data, poor parts supply, and a dodgy reputation.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
There are a lot of technical difficulties, more than there are building 2 valve heads for these engines, I suspect. If it were so easy, I think that AFR or Edelbrock would have done it. I think also there's a limited market for them, especially since now you can buy DOHC Ford modular engines which can be set up to make sick levels of power and torque. Of course, they have a different bolt pattern etc etc.
Jay Cushman had some photos of 3-valve and 4-valve heads that had been made by Ford decades ago. I think if you could get the valve train loads manageable, and make them reliable, 4-valve heads would be a very interesting way to get more power out of these engines. Multi-valve hemi-head designs have always made a lot of power, and it seems clear that a lot of small valves work better than fewer big ones. What is a shame is that no reputable builder who meets deadlines and doesn't steal from his customers has tackled building these. Something about building multi-valve heads for old pushrod V8s seems to attract sleazebags, which is a pity.
Jay Cushman had some photos of 3-valve and 4-valve heads that had been made by Ford decades ago. I think if you could get the valve train loads manageable, and make them reliable, 4-valve heads would be a very interesting way to get more power out of these engines. Multi-valve hemi-head designs have always made a lot of power, and it seems clear that a lot of small valves work better than fewer big ones. What is a shame is that no reputable builder who meets deadlines and doesn't steal from his customers has tackled building these. Something about building multi-valve heads for old pushrod V8s seems to attract sleazebags, which is a pity.
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Sample space = 2, so it's probably a combination of coincidence and, as Ron implies, guys trying to do something that doesn't make much business sense. Bad business ideas tend to filter out everyone but the stupid and the dishonest. And the former tend to turn into the latter as their businesses fail.
Good God. If you want a 4V American V8 just get a Ford Modular V8. There's a ton of variations and lots of options. It's DOHC so fewer moving parts/pushrods. It's track-tested and the parts aren't in the stratosphere. It's reliable and will make more power than you could ever reliably put to the road outside of dragracing. 2000hp is not unheard of.
I've never seen such a bunch of idiocy as a pining for a 4V pushrod V8!
I've never seen such a bunch of idiocy as a pining for a 4V pushrod V8!
Or having a GT40 as a practical road car?
What is the world coming to..... :shocked:
Howard Jones
Supporter
Question?
Would the greater weight of the valvetrain be a problem by limmiting RPM and cam wear, not to mention all that monkey motion's effect on relability. Two valves, two sets of springs, and two rockers being run off one cam lobe/lifter/pushrod doesn't seam to be a good design to begin with.
Modern 4V motors usually have a seprate cam lobe for each valve and they are overhead with a cam follower instead of a pushrod/lifter. DFV for example (not all that modern I might add)
I don't see the advantage of a old school SBF, SBF 4v head given the above and the proven performance of modern 2v heads using with modern parts.
BLING maybe?
Would the greater weight of the valvetrain be a problem by limmiting RPM and cam wear, not to mention all that monkey motion's effect on relability. Two valves, two sets of springs, and two rockers being run off one cam lobe/lifter/pushrod doesn't seam to be a good design to begin with.
Modern 4V motors usually have a seprate cam lobe for each valve and they are overhead with a cam follower instead of a pushrod/lifter. DFV for example (not all that modern I might add)
I don't see the advantage of a old school SBF, SBF 4v head given the above and the proven performance of modern 2v heads using with modern parts.
BLING maybe?
Exactly. The Coyote or Roadrunner (Boss version) can be had relatively inexpensively (the Coyote goes for under 8,000 and the Roadrunner for under 12,000). They can be tuned to make a lot of power too: Coyote 8 Stack - YouTube
I know that GTForte's GTS40 and Tornado's TS40 both have chassis options that will work with it too.
Steve, if you actually did some of the reading on this site about the pros and cons, then you'd know why....and you wouldn't make such a silly statement.
If you don't want to do the reading, I'd be happy to tell you why, as would others here.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
No Cliff, we need Nobel Laureates like him to remind us all of how we can't read and how stupid we all are. Thanks and a tip of the hat to ol' Steve.
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Oh really. So "I've never seen such a bunch of idiocy ..." isn't?
Telling us a pushrod 4-valve is idiocy is no different from telling us recreating a GT40 for driving on on the street is idiocy. Let everyone have his own taste, OK? If you're not interested in the subject of "Fords 32 Valve SBF heads" it would make more sense to quietly go somewhere else.
And Jim (R): Cliff clearly addressed his comment to Steve, so what's with all the "we're offended" stuff? After all, Steve basically called you an idiot for reading this thread at all.
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Alan,
If you will read my original post you will note that I'm referring to pining for a 32V pushrod as idiocy. I certainly am not calling you, me (I read the entire thread too) or anyone else who reads this an idiot. If anyone takes that comment personally, I apologize. I think Jim understands that and we both understand that a curious and intriguing concept such as this can also be folly (which is one of the definitions of idiocy).
Both you and Cliff have decided to reply with personal criticism (in violation of the first rule of the forum). I am entitled to my opinion and I won't go "quietly somewhere else" because it differs from yours.
If you will read my original post you will note that I'm referring to pining for a 32V pushrod as idiocy. I certainly am not calling you, me (I read the entire thread too) or anyone else who reads this an idiot. If anyone takes that comment personally, I apologize. I think Jim understands that and we both understand that a curious and intriguing concept such as this can also be folly (which is one of the definitions of idiocy).
Both you and Cliff have decided to reply with personal criticism (in violation of the first rule of the forum). I am entitled to my opinion and I won't go "quietly somewhere else" because it differs from yours.
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Good. Thank you.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I AM an idiot. Only an idiot would spend twelve years and more money than I care to think about having a GT40 built. I freely admit I am an idiot. However I am not enough of an idiot to want four-valve heads for my SBF engines. My idiocy stops just short of that. Mind you, if they had been available from a reputable source who did not have a customer satisfaction rating of less than zero, I might have considered them, so it's just as well they weren't really available. Thank God.
Steve,
Ah, no. There's a lot of performance upside to a 4V head for a pushrod V8. Without addressing the technical details at all, the large amount of interest on this forum (and elsewhere) is further confirmation. There has been several threads in the past on this topic, with a lot of healthy and sophisticated debate of the technical details and performance expectations. There's a lot of smart guys here.
There's nothing self-righteous about expressing an opinion on a technical matter. This is, after all, a discussion forum, and everyone has a right to an opinion...you, me, and everyone else.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
There's a lot of smart guys here.
Wish I were one of them.....
Wish I were one of them.....
