GT40 Australia #27

[Pete McCluskey.]

Hi Peter,
more than likely to far away to suit you, but I can give you the name of a top builder in Southport.

 

[Peter Delaney]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the offer mate. It looks like I have found the right guy here in Sydney - he virtually works full time on Mustang and Cobra Club cars, & comes very highly recommended.

BUT, naturally, he on hols till the end of the month !

Thanks & Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Darrell]

Peter I just had a look at the LS7 site Steve mentioned, think you should go that way, Flatchat will possibly build a set of Ford look alike valve covers and of you go.

Darrell
DRB#46

 

[Peter Delaney]

Nice try Darrell ! But I think I will stick with a 331 stroker for the GT40 using my old block & save up for the mods on the 454 for the Vette. A mate has a sister car to mine, but with a nice 502 BB - 600hp at the wheels ! One scary car - you can pull away in 4th at 800rpm, but when it hits 2000rpm, the gates of hell open !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[JackW]

Hi Peter

I was looking at the picture of your car at the Castrol show. Do you have tinted windows?

Jack

 

[Peter Delaney]

Hi Jack,

No, it must have just been a trick related to the low lighting levels - all glass & perspex is clear.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Howard Jones]

My wife and most other people call me the cheap Italian. And for good reason. Lets assume that 400Hp is plenty. It is by the way. 302 inches at 400hp is 1.32Hp per inch. This would be considered by most people as a healthy street/track day type motor. Additionally your AFR's ,165 or 185s, will easily support 400Hp and 6000 RPM's is enough revs to achieve 400Hp also. The 205's are a bit much for a 6000 RPM limmit and 302 inches. If you have them then go for the stroker and a main girdle. Plan on at least another 50-75 Hp over a 302/185AFR's.

Another consideration should be type of cam. Not specs but type. Solid tappet, roller tappet, hyd tappet, or hyd roller. With a 6000 RPM rev limit it doesn't make much sense to go a solid route either flat or roller. Both of these would be necessary above 7000 and surely the roller's would be needed above 7800ish. 7500+ PRM motors typically are at or above 1.6 hp per inch or about 500 hp(1.65) Since you only need 400 I would say stay with quality hyd.roller valve train parts. Crain makes several nice complete kits. I would stay with the same manufacturer for both the cam, roller lifters and springs. Makes life simple.

10 to 1 CR is also on target for 400 hp and 92 octain street gas so you are good to go there. So back to being cheap. Tear to whole thing down. Have a good look at the block and if it is good, clean it up and use it. Same with crank and rods. Use VERY high quality fasteners, especially the rod bolts, and get the best shop in your area to balance it all for you. Stock new oil pump, nice baffled pan, eldendbrock victor junior alum water pump and you should be all set.

Note. With your 6000 RPM limmit and power output in the sane range you shouldn't need a main cap girdle or new rods. But if you feel the need then both won't hurt too much. I don't think you don't need a big dollar block or crank at 400/6000. DO use a quality dampner. I really like ATI's or TCI Rattlers.

Note 2. FMS crate motors are not balanced beyond what stock production 302's are. If you buy a crate motor from anyone else ask about balance specs.

Have fun.

 

[Peter Delaney]

Thanks Howard - that's excellent & practical advice, and pretty much confirms my thinking so far.

I have the AFR 165's & being a cheap Aussie of Irish & Scottish descent, I can't justify the $ loss on a changeout to 185/205's ! If it costs me a few horsepower, so be it !

As you say, with a 6000rpm limit, it would be a somewhat pointless (& expensive) exercise to go with anything other than a hydraulic setup. Your advice regarding staying with a single manufacturer for everything from the cam to the springs gels exactly with the input I have had from other experts - done. (With one minor exception - "Cheap Charlie" here has a set of 1.6 FPV roller rockers which I'd like to retain). These are a really nicely built set & I reckon they should be ok.

The more I hear about my selected engine builder, the better I feel, so I am going to go with his 20 years worth of experience & be guided as to the cam selection, 331 stroker kit, etc. It was also nice to hear that he will only build engines with ARP fasteners & Felpro gaskets.

There is another thread running in which quite some doubt has been cast upon HV oil pumps, so I'll be going with a new standard one as you suggest, along with a decent larger capacity baffled pan. I had all sorts of trouble sourcing a new v-belt water pump some time ago & finally ended up getting the old aly one rebuilt - its only done around 1000kms, so it should be ok to re-use.

My gut feeling is to get the whole show neutrally balanced - whilst there are some opinions around that indicate it is not necessary on a 6000rpm engine, I figure that it is intuitively the "correct" way to go - not all that much money for a whole lot of extra peace of mind ! In much the same vein, I am inclined to fit a main cap girdle anyway - not silly money, but more peace of mind.

Good point on the damper - I'll make sure that a top-quality one gets installed.

Given all the hugely helpful advice that I have from Forum members, it looks like the crate short engine option is out (unless my block has a killer problem & is declared DOA).

Now all I have to do is be patient & refine my "shopping list" over the next couple of weeks until the engine builder gets back from hols & we can spec it all up. He indicated around 2 weeks for the rebuild, so I figure on getting the car back on the road by the end around of May. That should give me plenty of time to fix a whole bunch of minor outstanding items, & to purchase a set of brown underwear to cope with the extra 100+hp !!!

Thanks again for you help.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Peter,
Be sure to match the dampner to the setup of the crank etc if going neutral. When I ordered my clutch/pp/flywheel, they sent the stock configuration and had to exchange the flywheel for a neutral one. Kennedy did it quickly and at no cost. Great guys.

Bill

 

[Peter Delaney]

Thanks Bill, I'll add those items to the (ever-growing) check-list.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Howard Jones]

If I was going to build a 331, 400hp, 6000RPM STREET motor I would use 165's. The port velocity at < 3500 RPMS is much better suited for this RPM range. And since you will not be revving it beyond 6500 or so you really don't need the high flow numbers the 185s/205s would give you. The 165's should be perfect. I would however keep the C.I.s at 331 or below. As the motor reaches 350 C.I.s and larger the 185's become better suited.

The main thing about matched lifters and cams is really when you are using a solid flat tappet on a high lift cam. The material's must be designed to work together I have been told. The rockers don't have this kind of compatibility issue. I just think it makes sence to buy a complete cam kit and be done with it. Everybodys cam, springs,and lifters should work with your rockers if the geometry is correct. You could call the cam kit maker when you choose one and ask.

 

[Peter Delaney]

Thanks Howard - With all the help from you & Bill, I think that we have got the high-level specs pretty well nailed down now. Just time & money from here in !!

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Peter Delaney]

Update Time !!

After much stuffing around, I finally contracted a full engine re-build/upgrade to Paul Knott of PK Automotive here in Sydney. Paul really knows his art, & has put together a very strong, but streetable engine. The basic specs are :
- Block line bored/honed, decked, chemically cleaned, etc
- 331 Stoker setup with Scat crank, rods & JE forged pistons
- Roller cam by CamTech
- Speed Pro roller lifters
- Mellings oil pump, etc
- All fasteners by ARP
- AFR 165 heads refurbished, new valve stem seals, springs checked & shimmed/matched
- 10:1 C/R
- Port matched heads & manifolds
- ACL race bearings
- Power Bond harmonic balancer
- Fully balanced
- New baffled sump
- Felpro gaskets throughout

Chris (RF054) helped me get the engine back in, then a week's worth of g/box installation, wiring & plumbing reconnection, etc., & we were ready to fire it up. I had the Autronic expert (Steve Cox) on hand for this (fully expecting problems with using the old ECU map on the new engine), but no ! It started almost straight away & ran perfectly for the 15 mins at 1500rpm for cam bed-in, etc. Steve then did some black-magic on the PC whilst I bled the last of the air out of the cooling system, & within 30 mins, we had it idling very smoothly at about 800rpm, & rapping up the lower part of the rev range without any spit-backs or backfiring !

Once Steve had left, I was all set to go for a test drive - hit the remote - nothing. After a number of tries, the immobiliser kicked in & I got the pumps running - but then starter solenoid chatter instead of a start-up ! Jumper leads then installed from my Lexus & all fired up straight away. Jumper leads off, try a re-start - starter chatter again. Conclusion - dead battery (confirmed by the local road service guy who then fitted a new battery). And yes, you guessed right - the old one was 1 month past its 2-year warranty !!

So, off for the first test run the next day - HUGE difference in low down torque & heaps of potential up the rev range. I kept in mind the engine builder's advice about taking things easy for the 1st 2-3000 kms (not to mention the bill), so nothing over 3000rpm (but holy cr*p, it gets there fast now) ! After a 20 min run, I stopped off at the local hardware store for some bits & pieces, got back into the car & .... no reaction from the remote !! After 10 mins of trying, it finally clicked in & we were away again.

After checking the spare remote vs the current one - another crook battery (in the old remote) !! What are the chances of the main car battery & the remote battery both failing within 2 days ??? I thought that I had shaken the flat battery problem when the kids finally outgrew those aweful battery-powered Christmas presents that evil relatives give them - no - they are still with me (but now more expensive) !!

With new batteries surrounding me, off we go for another test run - bloody brilliant ! After being a very good boy on the roads, it all got the better of me when I came back up the driveway - 3/4 throttle in 1st = tyre smoke !!

This is FUN - its only taken about 5 years !!

Kind Regards,
Peter D.

 

[Darrell]

Running in

Great to hear your car is up and running again Peter, me thinks you should give it a run up the old Pacific Highway to sunny Newcastle just the shot for running it in. I will have the kettle on for you.

Darrrell
DRB#46

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Yeah, and while you're at it, slide on up to the Gold Coast for a nice cold beer with the fellas

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

duplicate post deleted , what the ?

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Yeah, and while you're at it, slide on up to the Gold Coast for a nice cold beer with the fellas

Good idea, Peter a trip to the Gold Coast would run the new engine in nicely.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Peter,
Sounds like you are on the road for sure. You will have to do either a track test once broken in or a dyno run to see the real figures, and compare to the old engine. I hope mine will be fired up by the end of our summer here. "Money" will tell the tale!!!

Bill

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Pete, sounds like a good motor now, but what was the diagnosis of the complaint to the previous motor

 

[Peter Delaney]

Darrell - thanks for the invite mate - Newcastle should be achievable (ie, vaguely within the "affordable towing distance") !! It will probably be in a month or so as I have finally been conned into a trip to Bali - put a few women together & you have trouble (specially if one of them is your wife) ! I hate air travel anyway, so just add the lovely Indonesians to the trip & you can see why I have already started on the Vallium !

Chris & Pete - if I make it to Darrell's place, I might as well press on north ! One of Peter R's sausage sizzles has been a goal for ages now, and sliding into semi-retirement (plus a decent engine) is running me out of excuses !

Bill - I am over dynos - the last few runs (for emissions testing) got me over that one - stress (me & the car), ceramic coating on the headers stuffed, etc. With "Autronic Steve" dialling things in on the road & in the garage, I reckon we'll get to 95% of max power & torque. Very similar engine builds over here have got up to 430hp on the engine dyno, so if I am getting 380+, I will be quite happy ! Good luck with things - if you are looking at a start-up by the end of summer, you must be getting close !

Chris - the problem that "brought forward" the rebuild was a crook roller lifter. The needle roller bearings in the lifter ended up in bits in the sump - hence the very loud "clicking noises" & a stuffed cam ! The more things came apart, the bigger the problems - cracked timing case, old crappy bearings (not new as I had previously been told), crappy oil seals on the valves, appalling intake port-matching, etc. A full & professional rebuild was the only option !

300kms on the new engine now & still grinning !!!!!!

Kind Regards,

Peter D.