How much is it worth to you?

[George]

then it's just as legitimate to ask why someone would pay $2 million for an original when they can get an exact copy for so much less.

Thank you Alan for that perspective. Totaly agree. On the one hand "Yeah but its still not original thats why spend 2 milion" on the other "yeah but I spent so much less and got so much more car/comfort and so forth that the original wont offer.

I guess those that have their heart set on the "Hey its original" thought/feeling, a replica can never produce that, not even a 600k one from gelscoe. Just like a real painting by Angelo himself, a replica, though looks identical, I can never say HE did it. To some that position is important and to them I can understand that a replica even of the highest caliber and accuracy is still not that, therefor 'means nothing to me'.

On the other hand those that want a car with modern features yet love the design of the 60s legend, will always feel "Why spend 2 milion on something that is half as fast, half as comfortable and half as reliable when for $100,000 (RCR, TSC, CAV etc) can produce a car that performs better, more reliable, better technology and even has aircon, im getting a better car for 1.9 milion dollars less that looks identical why pay more for worse quality when everyone looks to spend less and get quality"


Given those 2 sides, I dont see where Gelscoe fits in. Its about 5 times more expensive than an RCR, looks no different, and still cant claim the originality of the real thing either. So you dont have either saving/quality nor originality.

Its replicating worse performance and charging more for it and usualy society wants to go forward not backwards.
:huh:

 

[Ian K]

George,

First, his name is Michelangelo (as in Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni), not Michael Angelo or whatever.

Second, there are people who want to get as close to original as their wallet allows, but obviously cannot spend the money necessary to purchase an original. So, as close as possible will do, and a less accurate replica will not, modern improvements or not.

Ian

 

[George]

Thanks Ian,

I understand affording 2 milion for a car is high and most people cant afford that, and even the ones that could, would be hard to even find one available (I assume) to purchase.

However, spending 600k to be 'as close as possible' (lack of improvements), it still IS NOT original, so whether its built more like one or not the same issue is still there "Replica" at 500k more than RCR etc. It can look and be built like original, it still isnt original. Whats the point then when you could have had more for less and both cases replica either way.

Maybe the FIA papers are worth 600k to some that want to use the car in the vintage races, that perhaps is the only thing that makes sense as to why to do it. I know for myself, that part would be appealing.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...so whether its built more like one or not the same issue is still there "Replica" at 500k more than RCR etc. It can look and be built like original, it still isnt original. Whats the point then when you could have had more for less and both cases replica either way..

If all you care about is the way it looks, RCR and Gelscoe are arguably equivalent.

If on the other hand I care about recreating the experience of driving an original, then they are not at all the same. That difference does matter to some of us and that difference can be worth $500K. If you don't understand why, no amount of explaining will help. That's why this discussion, ultimately, is so pointless.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Another way to look at this is how much fun can you have within a budget: for example, for two million dollars, I could have pretty much all the cars I want (except for that 300SL roadster ) AND a building to put them in. Or one original GT40, no other cars, and no building at all. Of course, with only one collector car, I'd just need my garage at home.

I drove two of my collector cars today- the GT40, to give my goddaughter a ride in it, and my Mercedes 500E, to take all of us out to dinner. Both were a lot of fun, for different reasons. My own opinion is that if you're a car guy or girl, you will need more than one collector car. But maybe there are some lucky folks out there who only aspire to one, and they have it, and that's all they need. They are fortunate indeed- for me, I always want more of them.

 

[George]

If all you care about is the way it looks, RCR and Gelscoe are arguably equivalent.

If on the other hand I care about recreating the experience of driving an original, then they are not at all the same. That difference does matter to some of us and that difference can be worth $500K. If you don't understand why, no amount of explaining will help. That's why this discussion, ultimately, is so pointless.

So what you are saying is, to get the feel of an original without the modern improvements and without the original price tag is what some would pay 500k for. Are you sure that is something that can be physically felt behind the wheel? Or is that more so in the mind, as a fast car feels like a fast car.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Isn't that what women feel like?
After all ' your only as old as the women you feel' irrespective of cost of maintenance...

 

[Ian K]

So what you are saying is, to get the feel of an original without the modern improvements and without the original price tag is what some would pay 500k for. Are you sure that is something that can be physically felt behind the wheel? Or is that more so in the mind, as a fast car feels like a fast car.

It's really all in the mind.

For example, when you first came aboard, you talked about not wanting a Lambo or Ferrari, but would spend the same amount on a replica GT40 with many improvements to get to the same power/performance level of those two. Why? Why not get the Lambo? Why spend that money on a carbon fiber chassis GT40 replica?

It's the same thought process, just taken to a different level. There are those who want a real original GT40, but will never have the funds to buy one. To them, getting as close to original as possible is the next best thing. They want accuracy above all else.

Ian

 

[George]

It's really all in the mind.

For example, when you first came aboard, you talked about not wanting a Lambo or Ferrari, but would spend the same amount on a replica GT40 with many improvements to get to the same power/performance level of those two. Why? Why not get the Lambo? Why spend that money on a carbon fiber chassis GT40 replica?

It's the same thought process, just taken to a different level. There are those who want a real original GT40, but will never have the funds to buy one. To them, getting as close to original as possible is the next best thing. They want accuracy above all else.

Ian

I like the look of the GT40 above the other cars, thats why. I dont think there is any car quite like the 40. Its a classic car, good for muscle car cruises and shows as it is a 60s car and yet good for exotic cruises as its got that low/exotic profile. I think its quite a unique car. Id just like the performance to be up there in todays world of vehicles so that it doesnt just look like a 'performer' but actualy CAN compete. Whether thats used or not, thats another matter. For me its nice to know what my car 'can' do even if it never gets used to that level.

Well thanks anyway for the elaborations but I believe Alan is right, theres never going to be an answer except "they want to buy it" that makes any sense. Just like most people here cant understand why I want to built a CF GT40 with todays perfor,mance standards when I can just buy a Gt and work off that and so forth. But I just like the 40" off the ground idea and I like the fact its the original 40 shape, now just pump that performance into it and I got the complete package

 

[Ian K]

I like the look of the GT40 above the other cars, thats why. I dont think there is any car quite like the 40. Its a classic car, good for muscle car cruises and shows as it is a 60s car and yet good for exotic cruises as its got that low/exotic profile. I think its quite a unique car. Id just like the performance to be up there in todays world of vehicles so that it doesnt just look like a 'performer' but actualy CAN compete. Whether thats used or not, thats another matter. For me its nice to know what my car 'can' do even if it never gets used to that level.

Well thanks anyway for the elaborations but I believe Alan is right, theres never going to be an answer except "they want to buy it" that makes any sense. Just like most people here cant understand why I want to built a CF GT40 with todays perfor,mance standards when I can just buy a Gt and work off that and so forth. But I just like the 40" off the ground idea and I like the fact its the original 40 shape, now just pump that performance into it and I got the complete package

That is exactly my point. You like the 60's era shape, and even the Ford GT doesn't do it for you. Again, take it to the next level - not only do some like the shape, but they want there replica to be as close to original as possible. Not just shape, but everything. Hence, a CF Tornado, an aluminum mono RCR, or even an "80%" near accurate SPF will not do. They want the originality to go beyond shape.

Ian

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Are you sure that is something that can be physically felt behind the wheel?

Yes, I am sure.

I've also heard of guys who are sure they are Napoleon. And Don Quixote was sure that those windmills were giants.

 

[George]

:grinf:

 

[HILLY]

If all you care about is the way it looks, RCR and Gelscoe are arguably equivalent.

If on the other hand I care about recreating the experience of driving an original, then they are not at all the same. That difference does matter to some of us and that difference can be worth $500K. If you don't understand why, no amount of explaining will help. That's why this discussion, ultimately, is so pointless.

With due respect to all other points of view Alan has hit the nail on the head.
Basically if one could appreciate the answer that they were looking for the question would not have been asked in the first place.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o></o>
The downfall of the GT40 is it's timeless and shit hot looks. Everyone wants a GT40 (replica) because it looks cool but most then proceed to apply the contemporary comforts, gadgets, even white gauges and white leather seats that greatly detract from the mystique of what is a great race car.
For mine, anyone can have the looks on the outside but it is what’s underneath and inside that counts. <o></o>
Good luck to those that can afford what they really appreciate.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Mine is uncomfortable,hot, noisy, leaky and drafty enough that I think I have recreated the authentic experience.

 

[Jimmy P]

Gents,
Having started this thread I wanted to chime back in after reading each response. Bottom line is this (IMHO), every one of us is different with regard to our car or the car we desire. I'm a "live and let live" kind of guy. I try not to influence or force my opinions onto anyone. I admit that when attending car shows I wonder why anyone would pour countless thousands upon thousands of their hard earned cash on a Chevrolet Citation or Toyota Corolla (we have two such people in my area) but in the end I think, who am I to say what they do with their money.

So, if someone wants to spend 12 million on an original or 550K on a spot on copy or 50K on a close copy then carry on. I guess when I wrote my thoughts I just couldn't get my head around the fact there are only so many "originals" and that's why they are worth so much and always will be. But, because a person can buy a damn fine car for a fraction of the cost and still enjoy the same thrill why would one want to spend all that extra cash. There are many companies out there right now making great cars so if one wants to become a member of an elite group (GT 40 ownership) one can buy in at a range of pricing. My CAV is a great car. It gives me a GIANT thrill to drive it, hear it, smell it and feel it. I bought it because of how it makes me feel and how chuffed I am to turn around and give it a second look and see it sitting there knowing "Hey that's mine....ain't she spectacular!"

I guess the question now begging to be asked would be....and only a few of us can answer this..... "Would driving an original give us the same feeling as driving a copy? Does the original offer us that "value" for money we seek? Personally, knowing my personality I'd be crapping my pants driving a car that valuable so maybe it would be better not to own such a car even if I had the money.

Thanks to those offering input. I found it enlightening to see responses from around the world whether they be pro or con. Drive on Gents.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

"Would driving an original give us the same feeling as driving a copy?

Good quesiton. For me the answer is no, because I would be scared of damaging the original. I'd like to own the original and drive the copy.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Having ridden and worked on an original, it wouldn't bother me a bit to drive an original. They are just cars, spectacular, but still just cars and they were built to be driven, not to be put on a pedestal. Having said that I would enjoy driving my "component car" more because I built it(it is far from a replica).

Bill

 

[Chris Duncan]

Id just like the performance to be up there in todays world of vehicles so that it doesnt just look like a 'performer' but actualy CAN compete. Whether thats used or not, thats another matter. For me its nice to know what my car 'can' do even if it never gets used to that level.

Just like most people here cant understand why I want to built a CF GT40 with todays perfor,mance standards when I can just buy a Gt and work off that and so forth. But I just like the 40" off the ground idea and I like the fact its the original 40 shape, now just pump that performance into it and I got the complete package

So what class are you looking to race in? And if your questioning $500K expenditure have you looked at the cost of racing lately?

Otherwise why go to the trouble to build a CF car? Just look at the GT's that have been campaigned and ask how much they are spending. You may be just dreaming.

And if you build a CF GT40 and try to make it competitive you are going to have to change the body to make it competitively aerodynamic. It's not going to be a GT40 anymore. In addition the over cab doors don't work with a modern competitive configuration.

A nice replica will have 400hp + and weigh sub 2400 lbs. That's way more than you ever need unless you are race campaigning it. Building with CF might shave 100 lbs. There's a lot of other things you could do to increase performance for less cost and effort. Heck just pump up to 500hp, you won't be able to keep it on the ground.

Part of the huge expense of a 99% accurate replica is what I think is a phenomenon called "added premium for the best". It's like things like Snap-on tools. Sometimes they cost more than they are worth just because they are the best.