I want a divorce!
- Thread starter Al Wohlstrom
- Start date
Jim, I was just saying why pick the Muslims and not the Tibetans or Mexicans or any other group of people. I didn't say he was a Muslim, is he? I wasn't aware of other non space missions by NASA. Why are you getting so cranky? Don't you find it odd that NASA has been tasked for this? Why not have the FBI do catering? Or put the CIA in charge of swimming events?
Mission drift is what it is. That's the way washington rolls these days. I'm with Kieth, ket's get a true coalition government and work on some sustainable programs to reign in the crazies on both sides.
Kieth, I believe (or hope may be a better word) that GB is at the start of going in the correct direction. Notice I did not say RIGHT..HeHe.I have long held the belief that the greatest progress has been made in democratic societies when they govern from the center, either a little left or right, it doesn't matter. And you are also correct that the miltary has it's own agenda as does every branch of our government infrastructure to self serve themselves at the public trough.
That's not to criticize our fine men and women who have to do the dirty deeds. They are following orders as they should and they should be applauded. However, the miltary machine is much more than our servicemen and women and they have learned how to play the game.
Here's to our brothers in Great Britain for their common sense (of which they are famous) in routing the losers and creating a new paradigm of reason in these tumultous times. May the USA wake up soon.
Garry
Kieth, I believe (or hope may be a better word) that GB is at the start of going in the correct direction. Notice I did not say RIGHT..HeHe.I have long held the belief that the greatest progress has been made in democratic societies when they govern from the center, either a little left or right, it doesn't matter. And you are also correct that the miltary has it's own agenda as does every branch of our government infrastructure to self serve themselves at the public trough.
That's not to criticize our fine men and women who have to do the dirty deeds. They are following orders as they should and they should be applauded. However, the miltary machine is much more than our servicemen and women and they have learned how to play the game.
Here's to our brothers in Great Britain for their common sense (of which they are famous) in routing the losers and creating a new paradigm of reason in these tumultous times. May the USA wake up soon.
Garry
I never said that, you did. I don't understand why they were singled out. I think that the majority of Muslims are peaceful people. On the other hand, Muslim fringe groups have been blowing up airplanes and people since the early 70's. If we allow mosques to be built in the US, then we should be able to build churches and practice our religions in Muslim countries. I think sharia law is barbaric and antiquated, if they choose to practice it in their countries, fine, not here. Muslims and Israelis have been fighting for 5000 years and will never be friends. And they are from the same family tree! What make you think that sweet talk from NASA will change the ideas about The Great Satan (that's you and me) that the Muslims have, not all but some, the ones that want to kill us. And don't be naive, there are lots of radical muslims that would love to kill us.
Jim, No, no, no, I don't have any problem with improved relations with Muslim people. I just want the door to swing both ways. What's good for the Muslims is good for us. I don't think it's right that we should have to fear anything from or about the Muslims. I can remember when going on a plane flight didn't require one to be at the airport earlier than usual. Every time I go on a flight I am taken aside and searched because I have metal in my body. I owe that to the fact that 40 odd years ago someone got the bright idea of blowing up a plane and they have continued to do so. And most of that is attributed to mideastern terrorist. I would wager that they have been of a radical muslim persuasion.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
I know you know this is comming, but........
So Al, if as you say you are for improved relations with Muslim Countries then would you not want our President to work toward that end?
And if he is working toward that end would you not want him to used whatever areas of government as he felt could contribute i.e. Nasa....
Additionally, its Ok to have the CIA do the swimming, but what ever you do, don't let the FBI do the catering.
So Al, if as you say you are for improved relations with Muslim Countries then would you not want our President to work toward that end?
And if he is working toward that end would you not want him to used whatever areas of government as he felt could contribute i.e. Nasa....
Additionally, its Ok to have the CIA do the swimming, but what ever you do, don't let the FBI do the catering.
You're welcome, I'll try not to make a habit of it.
The outreach doesn't bother me, I think a diplomat, senator or congressman would have worked just fine. The head of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration doesn't ring of the right job desciption. And having congress being made aware of the outreach 2 days after the fact seems strange, but he did say "Change".
Pat
Supporter
Jim, I really enjoy your "are you still beating your wife" type questions for Al. You've reframed Al's concern about "the space part" of NASA evolving to education for kids, expand relations and Muslim self efficacy. Nice bob and weave there. The unpleasant truth here is that while these goals are noble, the Department of Education and the State Department are formally charged with these missions and are funded that way. Presumably, they are not accountable for deep space research or work on intercontinental high-speed sub orbital flight much less continued advances in aeronautical engineering.
So if NASA is directing their time, energy and funding to these efficacy missions it (by necessity) comes at the expense of the science and technology they has previously been charged with developing.
The reality is that NASA was created by the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958. The act tasked the new agency with researching the "problems of flight within and outside the Earth's atmosphere." American astronauts will soon have to pay for seats on Russian Soyuz flights to get to the ISS. As a nation, we will for the first time in half a century become a follower rather than the leader in space. We have been grounded by political correctness, disinterest and imaginations incapable of soaring. Several of the NASA engineers are friends and their morale is in the tank. Kennedy Space Center at Cape Canaveral, Fla., where just 1,600 to 2,300 employees were expected to remain in 2011, a cut of up to 80 percent from its current 8,000 workers. The Michoud Assembly Facility near New Orleans was forecast to lose as many as 1,300 of its 1,900 jobs. When NASA loses this intellectual capital, the vacuum it creates will haunt your grandchildren in terms of advances forfeited and technology missed. But it’s all worth it if the Muslim nations better appreciate their own mathematic heritage. I guess the Obama administration holds the employment of census takers with a higher regard than legitimate "rocket scientists".
Here's the video Jim. Note unlike the other video I presented, nobody has a nightstick.
YouTube - Talk to Al Jazeera - Charles Bolden
So if NASA is directing their time, energy and funding to these efficacy missions it (by necessity) comes at the expense of the science and technology they has previously been charged with developing.
The reality is that NASA was created by the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958. The act tasked the new agency with researching the "problems of flight within and outside the Earth's atmosphere." American astronauts will soon have to pay for seats on Russian Soyuz flights to get to the ISS. As a nation, we will for the first time in half a century become a follower rather than the leader in space. We have been grounded by political correctness, disinterest and imaginations incapable of soaring. Several of the NASA engineers are friends and their morale is in the tank. Kennedy Space Center at Cape Canaveral, Fla., where just 1,600 to 2,300 employees were expected to remain in 2011, a cut of up to 80 percent from its current 8,000 workers. The Michoud Assembly Facility near New Orleans was forecast to lose as many as 1,300 of its 1,900 jobs. When NASA loses this intellectual capital, the vacuum it creates will haunt your grandchildren in terms of advances forfeited and technology missed. But it’s all worth it if the Muslim nations better appreciate their own mathematic heritage. I guess the Obama administration holds the employment of census takers with a higher regard than legitimate "rocket scientists".
Here's the video Jim. Note unlike the other video I presented, nobody has a nightstick.
YouTube - Talk to Al Jazeera - Charles Bolden
Veek +1
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Thanks Veek - well stated.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Veek, it appears two can play the reframe game. Do you really beleave that having the PR wing of NASA try and encourage childeren, try and bring the world closer together and try and create better relations with the Muslim world had anything to do with the cuts in the space program.
(quote by Veek) When NASA loses this intellectual capital, the vacuum it creates will haunt your grandchildren in terms of advances forfeited and technology missed. But it’s all worth it if the Muslim nations better appreciate their own mathematic heritage
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Jim,
Veek is discussing mission creep. That is when a task force, or agency goes outside of the lines of its intended function. He is saying that this PR job is a phony way of keeping NASA in business(although much smaller in scale) since we, the American people have abandoned the mission that John Kennedy expanded; and that was to be the leaders in Space Tecnology and exploration with the incumbent growth of new industries spun off of that techno development. He also is saying with the downsizing of NASA the engineers who have dreamed of these challenges and have devoted their considerable talents to solving the problems of spaceflight will seek employment elsewhere, possibly in other countries where they are expanding space exploration such as China. The brain drain he is talking about is the big sucking sound of talented engineers and physics majors in universities today that will be leaving to join other agencies in foreign countries that are up to the challenges.
In the past decade there has been a growth of our countrymen and politicians that see the money spent on this endeavor as a waste of money. They would rather see us spend money on the social agenda which has crept into the government expenditures instead of this type of research. What they cannot see or they fail to understand is the contributions of NASA on the inventions that we take for granted.
It's a shame that America has decided to forego the very engine of technological innovation that has made so many lives better off on this planet. When we as humans challenge ourselves, we grow, adapt and overcome problems that seemed unsurmoutable in the past. This decision by the current admistration is very short sided IMHO.
Garry
Veek is discussing mission creep. That is when a task force, or agency goes outside of the lines of its intended function. He is saying that this PR job is a phony way of keeping NASA in business(although much smaller in scale) since we, the American people have abandoned the mission that John Kennedy expanded; and that was to be the leaders in Space Tecnology and exploration with the incumbent growth of new industries spun off of that techno development. He also is saying with the downsizing of NASA the engineers who have dreamed of these challenges and have devoted their considerable talents to solving the problems of spaceflight will seek employment elsewhere, possibly in other countries where they are expanding space exploration such as China. The brain drain he is talking about is the big sucking sound of talented engineers and physics majors in universities today that will be leaving to join other agencies in foreign countries that are up to the challenges.
In the past decade there has been a growth of our countrymen and politicians that see the money spent on this endeavor as a waste of money. They would rather see us spend money on the social agenda which has crept into the government expenditures instead of this type of research. What they cannot see or they fail to understand is the contributions of NASA on the inventions that we take for granted.
It's a shame that America has decided to forego the very engine of technological innovation that has made so many lives better off on this planet. When we as humans challenge ourselves, we grow, adapt and overcome problems that seemed unsurmoutable in the past. This decision by the current admistration is very short sided IMHO.
Garry
