Howard Jones
Supporter
How about "Mcleran" fits in same space and I bet nobody ever asks about the spelling.
McLaren M8 B look alike
- Thread starter russell k
- Start date
That's very unfortunate for them that the McLaren folks are so insecure about something that poses no threat whatsoever. Privately at least here in America if you have the creativity for "personal use" you may paint Mickey Mouse on the hood of your car and incur no recourse from Disney. Same with a McLaren decal you made for your "replica". Or any other "livery" for that matter regardless of brand. Your not exploiting for profit nor representing your car as the original iteration of the vehicle. No harm not foul!!!! I am a tremendous fan of Bruce McLaren and in particular of the M8 series of CanAm cars. The paranoia is shameful. Sorry they feel this is something to confront. It's not.:thumbsdown:
Nice effort Russ.:thumbsup:
Nice effort Russ.:thumbsup:
I would also add that (goes without saying) no one can copyright, trademark, or patent a body style or shape based on non-functional aesthetics. It would appear that the shape of your replica is so strikingly similar that too is causing some issue. You've done a fine job Russ, but another point is how could so many versions and brands of replica GT40's exist in the world with "FORD" stripes and "blue oval" logo plates and receive not one bit of "static" from Ford Motor Company? Because there's no recourse and nothing to go after for Ford and more importantly nothing to protect. Even less to protect for a 40 year old CanAm car and its "livery". Its up to the public at large to determine authenticity if a replica is sold for profit and falsely represented. You are clearly not doing that Russ. You simply built a car for yourself that looks like a once very successful racecar. I'd keep the car as it is.
Russ - I've been following your incredible journey here and have to say that the McLaren trust is way off base. I would seek the counsel of an attorney there to find out if they have any true recourse.. It would seem to me that you're using the name more as a Tribute than anything. If you were to be marketing the car or services to build a car like it with the McLaren badging - then you would be infringing on their rights...
Simply my vantage point mind you...
What do the Cobra, F-Car, L-Car replica guys do there??
Simply my vantage point mind you...
What do the Cobra, F-Car, L-Car replica guys do there??
Were these http://www.mantacars.com/Mirageregistry.html
or these http://www.mantacars.com/Montageregistry.html
illegal in the early 70's? Are they now? If in your own garage, you paint McLaren on your Manta are you committing a crime? No, No, and NO!
Mr. Shelby tried to fight this fight and even he has conceded and joined Superformance and authorized the repliCobras they make. Does that now render illegal the other Cobra replica's? Nope! But the fact is Shelby has secured his approved version of the "continuation" cars. Can the other Cobra replica manufacturers put "Shelby" on the kits? No, but absolutely individual builders can festoon their own cars with any logos labels or lettering they choose.
The more I think about this the more it sickens me. You glorify the man and the car by building one in your own garage as a testimony to your love of the "marquis" and someone of official capacity fusses you about it instead of lauding the affection shown. I'm sorry I'm seeing this one sided, but its a 40 year old CanAm car folks.
Lola's have been built from scratch and raced at RA in the CanAm reunion and not too much is made of that.
or these http://www.mantacars.com/Montageregistry.html
illegal in the early 70's? Are they now? If in your own garage, you paint McLaren on your Manta are you committing a crime? No, No, and NO!
Mr. Shelby tried to fight this fight and even he has conceded and joined Superformance and authorized the repliCobras they make. Does that now render illegal the other Cobra replica's? Nope! But the fact is Shelby has secured his approved version of the "continuation" cars. Can the other Cobra replica manufacturers put "Shelby" on the kits? No, but absolutely individual builders can festoon their own cars with any logos labels or lettering they choose.
The more I think about this the more it sickens me. You glorify the man and the car by building one in your own garage as a testimony to your love of the "marquis" and someone of official capacity fusses you about it instead of lauding the affection shown. I'm sorry I'm seeing this one sided, but its a 40 year old CanAm car folks.
Lola's have been built from scratch and raced at RA in the CanAm reunion and not too much is made of that.
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And another thing:lipsrsealed::laugh:
That's crap Russell!
Ironic that McLarens at the time actually assisted Gary Pedersen to build the Gemco Olds that your body molds originally came from. I guess in those days a small organisation run by Bruce was keen to help fellow Kiwis. Apparently not so the current monolith!
There again Gary wasn't calling it a McLaren, he was using the Gemco name to promote the business. However I doubt in those days there would have been any discussion about naming the car. But who knows?
I know MSNZ have some issue about using original names on racing Log Books if it's not an original car, so I'm going with Noble-Ford Kiwi 40 for mine to save any hassles.
I think Howards suggestion "McLeran" is the best solution, but maybe you should call it a Gemco Olds. Same shape, similar spaceframe, similar motor. And a huge icon in NZ in the 70's...Check with Gary Pederse first though, but I bet he would be really stoked that someone had built a lookalike Gemco!
There is a guy down here who is known to everyone a "Marmite" and calls his business that. Litigation was started so he changed it to "Marmitte". End of story!
Ford wreckers "Kiwi Spares" here in Chch used to be called "Ford Spares" until Ford went after them so Ford in NZ tends to (or used to) protect their patch also!
Good luck with it anyway.
Cheers
Ironic that McLarens at the time actually assisted Gary Pedersen to build the Gemco Olds that your body molds originally came from. I guess in those days a small organisation run by Bruce was keen to help fellow Kiwis. Apparently not so the current monolith!
There again Gary wasn't calling it a McLaren, he was using the Gemco name to promote the business. However I doubt in those days there would have been any discussion about naming the car. But who knows?
I know MSNZ have some issue about using original names on racing Log Books if it's not an original car, so I'm going with Noble-Ford Kiwi 40 for mine to save any hassles.
I think Howards suggestion "McLeran" is the best solution, but maybe you should call it a Gemco Olds. Same shape, similar spaceframe, similar motor. And a huge icon in NZ in the 70's...Check with Gary Pederse first though, but I bet he would be really stoked that someone had built a lookalike Gemco!
There is a guy down here who is known to everyone a "Marmite" and calls his business that. Litigation was started so he changed it to "Marmitte". End of story!
Ford wreckers "Kiwi Spares" here in Chch used to be called "Ford Spares" until Ford went after them so Ford in NZ tends to (or used to) protect their patch also!
Good luck with it anyway.
Cheers
He can paint anything he wants on it AFAIK for personal use and there is nothing that should be done about it. He can plaster it with Elvis or any other protected image as long as it his original work and not a copyrighted photo or artistic rendition. I retract everything I've said if indeed NZ law is different but I would have thought that intellectual property, and international law follow USA and UK since these two countries demonstrate the earliest conventions of patent and trademark law as we now observe it. If Russ lettered it himself or hired a chap to do the paint work to his specs or had vinyl lettering cut and applied it, either way it is representative of his work and not an original. If Russ starts selling McLaren CanAm cars then he's got trouble. If he would though for instance build 5 more cars for other enthusiasts, get paid for that work, and then those folks did up the graphics exactly as Russ' car then there is nothing McLaren, Mclaren Trust or anyone else on the planet can or rightfully believe they should do about it. You cannot lay claim to a body styling apart from the "utility" or usefulness of the item. Porsche cannot go after RCR for making 917 replicas as long as RCR does not call it a Porsche. If a person buying an RCR-917 puts "Porsche" on the car STILL nothing can be done to them legally. Any one of us could pull molds from a brand new Corvette, a moniker jealously protected by fans and the company alike, and we could build a car that looks exactly like a Corvette. As long as we don't call it a "Corvette" or use the Chevy branding in any way to sell or market the car we are without fault. A local manufacturer here in my town just down the road builds mid 60's GrandSports (vettes) and a street version replica of the famous GTP Corvette from the IMSA series in the 80's. I doubt he has any licensing to use the "Corvette" brand. They call the cars GTP Replica and GrandSport Replica and do not use the word "Corvette" in the literature. But clearly pictures of the car on the site show "Corvette" decal on the top of the front windscreen. Is that a violation? Who knows. Is Chevrolet or GM threatened by this. If you watch any news you'll see they've got much bigger troubles than to worry about a replicar manufacturer building defunct racecars with some decals on them. In fact I say stuff like this promotes the brand in a positive way. The adage "all boats rise with the tide" applies here. More GT40 replicas with "FORD" on the side means Ford perceived as a "cool" car company. More Cobra replicas with snake emblems and Ford engines in them seen around town is good for Ford business.
OTOH The McLaren name is so far removed from the CanAm legacy in the minds of the masses, and so inextricably associated with the Vodafone F1 team that not 10 not 100 not 1,000 Orange cars with number 4's and 5's on the side could detract from that association. No harm to McLaren International at all. They should be a non-issue. McLaren Trust IMHO would benefit from McLaren style replicars running around. That would increase the profile of interested McLaren enthusiasts who care more intently about the legacy than the current dealings of McLaren racing. More interest equals more donations more web hits more top of mind awareness about the historical significance of McLaren and the "glory days" of unlimited sportscar racing.
Russ your actually doing them a favor!!!!:bow:
OTOH The McLaren name is so far removed from the CanAm legacy in the minds of the masses, and so inextricably associated with the Vodafone F1 team that not 10 not 100 not 1,000 Orange cars with number 4's and 5's on the side could detract from that association. No harm to McLaren International at all. They should be a non-issue. McLaren Trust IMHO would benefit from McLaren style replicars running around. That would increase the profile of interested McLaren enthusiasts who care more intently about the legacy than the current dealings of McLaren racing. More interest equals more donations more web hits more top of mind awareness about the historical significance of McLaren and the "glory days" of unlimited sportscar racing.
Russ your actually doing them a favor!!!!:bow:
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Well I have had my high tea and bikies with the Mclaren trust who are a little concerned that there is considerable confusion with my car being mistaken for the real thing by an important person who I shall not embarass! and was also informed that Ron Dennis has asked for me to change it. Not wishing to cause them any grief, I have made a suttle change for now. It will now be quite a discussion point as to why when people see it so just for fun...
Your comments have given me further amunition.
Cheers
Your comments have given me further amunition.
Cheers
Attachments
Russ, I like the McCopy ! Ron Dennis should be more ashamed of that than McLaren Cars sign you used. It's a shame it's come to this though. If Bruce was alive today, this crap wouldn't happen I bet ! I met Bruce and Tyler Alexander a number of times back in the '60's when they came to Tyler's parents house in Hinham, Massachusetts. Did some fiberglass work on one of their cars. Great times !!!
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Russ, look upon it as a tribute to your skill and the job you have done in constructing the car. Such pettiness from Mclaren, a shame.:sad:
I agree Pete! It's a shame.:!blank:
Russ, I suppose NZ is a small enough sized place that you needed to acquiesce to avoid the consternation of your countrymen.
Nice car though.
Russ, I suppose NZ is a small enough sized place that you needed to acquiesce to avoid the consternation of your countrymen.
Nice car though.
Well bugger to all the bullshit, Today was the day I hit the gas pedal, was as nervous as a school boy on his first date until I went out the pit gate then it was just great. I was going to do only a couple of laps and then check it out but ended up doing about 4 before heading back in. Basicly it just ran as it should have, did wonder why it was missing at higher revs and realized that it was the rev limiter DOH. The car was very predictable and tracked straight as down the main straight with no tendacy to do anything untoward. Found that the body was rubbing both front and rear so relieved that a bit and raised the ride height. It seem that there must be considerable down force on the rear and the springs will nead to be stiffer, possably the front ones also. Question ? I put softer springs in so that It would have some droop, the harder springs set the car too high. Would I be better to put harder shorter springs in with the balance of travel made up with a lighter `keeper` spring.
The other problem experiance is the pump would create to much pressure if the thermo had not fully opened and blow fluid past the cap which is right by my neck.(Even thought the motor was at about 75deg.) Man that coolant leaves a mess on your nice shiny car. I think due to no by pass, I will run it without the thermostat and control any excess coolness by other means. Now that we have done some laps and it is definitly running a little rich, I will do the dyno thing.
I will figure out how to `cut` a segment out of my film and try and post it even though the sound is crap.
My email box will probaly be full of legal threats seeing I ran the car with the Mclaren livery, bugger them and I may even do the Mc Leran thing yet.
Cheers all.
The other problem experiance is the pump would create to much pressure if the thermo had not fully opened and blow fluid past the cap which is right by my neck.(Even thought the motor was at about 75deg.) Man that coolant leaves a mess on your nice shiny car. I think due to no by pass, I will run it without the thermostat and control any excess coolness by other means. Now that we have done some laps and it is definitly running a little rich, I will do the dyno thing.
I will figure out how to `cut` a segment out of my film and try and post it even though the sound is crap.
My email box will probaly be full of legal threats seeing I ran the car with the Mclaren livery, bugger them and I may even do the Mc Leran thing yet.
Cheers all.
WELL DONE!
congrats on the first run!
As for springs, I would want to get the spring rate right to get the desired wheel fequency/handling, and also get the lenght correct, to get the desired ride height.
Changing the ride height by adjusting the collars on the coil overs does not change the spring rate.
Cheers
Fred w B
congrats on the first run!
As for springs, I would want to get the spring rate right to get the desired wheel fequency/handling, and also get the lenght correct, to get the desired ride height.
Changing the ride height by adjusting the collars on the coil overs does not change the spring rate.
Cheers
Fred w B
Russ,
That's great that it tracks well. I knew that the bodywork aerodynamics would have an effect. Like driving a wedge. Get your overflow hooked up even if just juryrig something with duct tape. Make yourself up a ride hight gauge and put the word out to see if you can borrow some springs to test. It sounds like you are pretty close on the rates,
Dave
That's great that it tracks well. I knew that the bodywork aerodynamics would have an effect. Like driving a wedge. Get your overflow hooked up even if just juryrig something with duct tape. Make yourself up a ride hight gauge and put the word out to see if you can borrow some springs to test. It sounds like you are pretty close on the rates,
Dave
Fred, I can alter my shock mount to change ride height how ever when I put in the correct spring rated at 250 lb, and set the car up at the right ride height, down force and track undulations cause too much travel. Hence wanting to put back in shorter stiffer springs along with lighter weight keeper springs that would compress when at normal ride height only to `droop` if and when the car lifted or rolled in the turn to maintain tyre contact. If I had full lenght`stiffer` springs in there would be no droop.
The car does sit very flat as is and apart from the greater suspension travel, drive extremely smooth. On a different note, I set the car up with 6mm total front toe, 10mm neg. camber and 5 deg caster with the rear on zero caster, 10mm neg camber and 4mm total toe in. As I said the car tracked straight as and was not twitchy in way with the only criticism being a little heavy on steering in the very tight hairpin corner. Bear in mind that I was using a 10in steering wheel on a quick rack (2.5 turns) and in need of some upper latteral shoulder support so trying to hang onto the wheel and turn in at the same time. The tyres show no undue wearage and the inside front still had some of the label left on it after 25 laps. I have reduced the front toe back to a total of 4 mm to see if that makes a difference other wise I may reduce the caster a fraction. It`s very obvious to me now that I have built quite a complex bit of kit that needs careful attention to detail hence the trusty `set up` book.
The car does sit very flat as is and apart from the greater suspension travel, drive extremely smooth. On a different note, I set the car up with 6mm total front toe, 10mm neg. camber and 5 deg caster with the rear on zero caster, 10mm neg camber and 4mm total toe in. As I said the car tracked straight as and was not twitchy in way with the only criticism being a little heavy on steering in the very tight hairpin corner. Bear in mind that I was using a 10in steering wheel on a quick rack (2.5 turns) and in need of some upper latteral shoulder support so trying to hang onto the wheel and turn in at the same time. The tyres show no undue wearage and the inside front still had some of the label left on it after 25 laps. I have reduced the front toe back to a total of 4 mm to see if that makes a difference other wise I may reduce the caster a fraction. It`s very obvious to me now that I have built quite a complex bit of kit that needs careful attention to detail hence the trusty `set up` book.
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