Mr. Bush is the Smart One

[domtoni]

Domtoni,

We are discussing Al's brave new world, he wants do do away with most of the Federal Government, he thinks most thing can be done more efficiantly by the private sector.

Righ now he is explaing how they will pave Interstate 80 through Nevada, much cheeper and more efficianty than now.

He is going to tell us how the money will be collected.

He is going to tell us how the contractor will be picked and paid.

He is going to tell us how we will be sure the work is done correctly and safely.

If paving a road is down to Chicago style politics, I don't think those participating in the program know how to do it, but how to take the money.

But re-paving I80 through Illinois or Nevada is possibly necessary. Don't know the condition of the roads out there, but Illinois' I80 was pretty bad the last time I saw it. The funds should be coming from gas taxes to fund road repairs. Now the Feds could sell the roads to private groups, and charge users for driving on them (like private companies do in France and Italy). That would give the states tons of money to spend on other important programs like paying worker salaries, pensions, but not paying down their deficits.

 

[Jim Craik]

Domtoni,

So we should sell our interstates to private groups, like Italy! You say that should give us "tons of money"

Domtoni, how is the Italian economy doing?

So you think a one time cash bonanza, and a lifetime of paying fees/taxes to drive anyware it a good idea?

Domtoni, would that be good for the economy over the long run?

 

[Jim Craik]

Domtoni,

We are discussing Al's brave new world, he wants do do away with most of the Federal Government, he thinks most thing can be done more efficiantly by the private sector.

Righ now he is explaing how they will pave Interstate 80 through Nevada, much cheaper and more efficianty than now.

He is going to tell us how the money will be collected.

He is going to tell us how the contractor will be picked and paid.

He is going to tell us how we will be sure the work is done correctly and safely.

So Al, when you get a chance, let us know how your plan, to let the private sector do the work that the Govenment now does. How will it work, and how will it be much cheaper?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

So you would fund your paving job with a new tax.

But, Al, those "large road construction companies" are now doing just that. Paving roads.

So we will fund this paving job with new taxes. Now, how do we deside which company to hire and how do we make sure the work is done properly and safely?

*******

So now you need to let us know who will collect this new tax money and how will they collect it?

How will they deside when, how much and where to spend it.

I just did, tolls. And the companies would be chosen just like they always are by bid. And jobs would be inspected for safety and standards as they always have been, by state and federal inspectors. I worked on I91 as a kid, and they do it the same way today. That wasn't difficult, was it? Are you under the impression that all the companies are busy, think again. Sorry I couldn't respond immediately, I work on the car everyday.

 

[Doug S.]

I'm a bit confused.

Are we suggesting using tax money to build new roads, then operating them as toll roads?

If so, that smacks of "double taxation" to me.....one of the Interstate roads near where I live, I-10 leading into Houston from the west, was recently rebuilt (BTW, KUDOS to the construction company, more on that later) for a section about 30 miles long (or, at least it seemed that way). Tax money was used for that project, yet the "center" two lanes are now toll lanes. I guess the idea is that if you REALLY want to avoid the heavy congestion, you'll pay extra. Yet, it was partially MY money that funded those center lanes, and if they are being used to make money for somebody, as one of the original financiers I want my share.

That's only right!

I have a real issue with tax money being used to build ANY project, and then allowing someone to charge for use of that project. The government should not be landlords, renting out rooms in the Pentagon, any more than they should be making roads and then charging the very taxpayers who paid to construct those roads an additional fee to use them.

I would highly recommend the company that was contracted to rebuild that section of I-10! My home is about 30 miles from Houston on US59 south. I've lived here almost 30 years (moved here in 1982) and for about 25 of those years they were constantly working on construction of/repairs to US59. However, that company that contracted for the I-10 work was DONE rebuilding it all in about a year. I've never seen such immense roadwork in such a short time, and the quality is first rate! As a taxpayer, I'd pay more for the quality construction....it seems that US59 has cost the taxpayers to construct over and over, time and time again. Shame on the company that milked that contract for so long.

Back to the topic at hand, though....GGH would have taken huge portions of private property away from the current owners under imminent domain procedures, paying them way under what they were worth, only to build the "Trans-Texas Corridor", a road system designed to facilitate the movement of cargo through Texas by restricting the use of that road to trucks. He would have then handed the project over to foreign interests and allowed them to make money on the use of those roads by operating them as toll roads.

I SURE don't want that sort of attitude in the White House, and I can't imagine that the Republicans, who pride themselves on protecting individual property rights, would want someone who would think that would be a good idea in the White House, either. Before you consider voting for GGH [Rick Perry], spend some time checking him out, he's a real scumbag.

Just MHO, that's all......

Cheers from Doug!!

 

[Jim Craik]

Al,

So let me see if I understand.

The Interstate highway that we paid for and own, now need paving.

You say that bids for the repaving will be taken as usual, the Govenment will decide on the best bid and the Govenment will inspect for safety and quality, so I do not see any change from how it is now, except a new toll system (thats a new tax) with employees to collect the tolls and pay for the toll takers.

So Al we now pay a tax to drive on our roads, still have Government deciding who and how the work will be done (no savings there).

All this just because a highway that we own needs paving!

So Al, you have added new taxes, new emploees and new buercracy just to pave a road. GREAT PLAN!!!!!

That will not save, that will cost much more, plus everyone now needs to stop and pay tolls!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I'm a bit confused.

Are we suggesting using tax money to build new roads, then operating them as toll roads?

If so, that smacks of "double taxation" to me.....one of the Interstate roads near where I live, I-10 leading into Houston from the west, was recently rebuilt (BTW, KUDOS to the construction company, more on that later) for a section about 30 miles long (or, at least it seemed that way). Tax money was used for that project, yet the "center" two lanes are now toll lanes. I guess the idea is that if you REALLY want to avoid the heavy congestion, you'll pay extra. Yet, it was partially MY money that funded those center lanes, and if they are being used to make money for somebody, as one of the original financiers I want my share.

That's only right!

I have a real issue with tax money being used to build ANY project, and then allowing someone to charge for use of that project. The government should not be landlords, renting out rooms in the Pentagon, any more than they should be making roads and then charging the very taxpayers who paid to construct those roads an additional fee to use them.

I would highly recommend the company that was contracted to rebuild that section of I-10! My home is about 30 miles from Houston on US59 south. I've lived here almost 30 years (moved here in 1982) and for about 25 of those years they were constantly working on construction of/repairs to US59. However, that company that contracted for the I-10 work was DONE rebuilding it all in about a year. I've never seen such immense roadwork in such a short time, and the quality is first rate! As a taxpayer, I'd pay more for the quality construction....it seems that US59 has cost the taxpayers to construct over and over, time and time again. Shame on the company that milked that contract for so long.

Back to the topic at hand, though....GGH would have taken huge portions of private property away from the current owners under imminent domain procedures, paying them way under what they were worth, only to build the "Trans-Texas Corridor", a road system designed to facilitate the movement of cargo through Texas by restricting the use of that road to trucks. He would have then handed the project over to foreign interests and allowed them to make money on the use of those roads by operating them as toll roads.

I SURE don't want that sort of attitude in the White House, and I can't imagine that the Republicans, who pride themselves on protecting individual property rights, would want someone who would think that would be a good idea in the White House, either. Before you consider voting for GHH, spend some time checking him out, he's a real scumbag.

Just MHO, that's all......

Cheers from Doug!!

Tolls are normally used for continued upkeep of roads. We could have done a bunch of infrastructure with $785 billion of stimulus money and created lots of jobs. Who is GHH or GGH?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Al,

So let me see if I understand.

The Interstate highway that we paid for and own, now need paving.

You say that bids for the repaving will be taken as usual, the Govenment will decide on the best bid and the Govenment will inspect for safety and quality, so I do not see any change from how it is now, except a new toll system (thats a new tax) with employees to collect the tolls and pay for the toll takers.

So Al we now pay a tax to drive on our roads, still have Government deciding who and how the work will be done (no savings there).

All this just because a highway that we own needs paving!

So Al, you have added new taxes, new emploees and new buercracy just to pave a road. GREAT PLAN!!!!!

That will not save, that will cost much more, plus everyone now needs to stop and pay tolls!

Prepaid tolls with scanners, it's 2011. The tolls would be for future road needs. Present road taxes are paid through fuel and road use taxes. The only buracracy would be the inspectors and bid agencies that are already in place, they are always there. The new employees would be private sector companies. So it seems that your only problem is the Government deciding who and how the work will be done. Why don't you explain how you would do it? It's not rocket science, it's done every day all over this country. The only thing that slows the process is government redundancy.

 

[Jeff Young]

I see.

So, since you have what, may 30-40 people who live on your road (I'm guessing), who do you think is going to build a toll road to you? That would be no one.

Who is going to build an rural highways that get used rarely but are needed and necessary? Uh, no one.

Who is going to make sure that the roads are designed to safety rather than profitability standards? Uh, no one.

Lotsa crackpot ideas out there. Turn road construction into a for profit business is at the top of the list.

 

[Doug S.]

Who is GHH or GGH?

If I typed GHH it was a typo, GGH means "Governor Good Hair"....the "dumb" one when compared to Gee-DUB in the original post! It's the name we call him here in TX....better and more socially acceptable than what we want to call him.

It is my considered opinion that a well built roadway, like that one I mentioned on I-10 coming into Houston from the west, will need less upkeep. Only two of the 10 lanes are toll-roads (one each way), so would they use the toll $$ only to repair/maintain those two lanes, or would the toll money be used to repair/maintain the entire 10 lanes?

Either way, it doesn't smell right to me....we paid with our tax money for the construction, we should pay with our tax money for the upkeep. Sure, there are some who seldom drive the interstate system, and feel that they should not have to pay for the upkeep, but IMHO it is very much like the taxes we pay to support our schools, even though many of us no longer have children in the public schools--all of society benefits, so the taxation of all makes sense to me.

Governor Good Hair, on the other hand, would LIKE to take your land against your wishes, pay you practically nothing for it, build a superhighway from south to north through TX and allow a foreign country to make money by charging tolls for the use of that highway. Can you say "Higher prices for everything you buy"?

Guys, I'd really like to see GGH be anywhere else other than where I live, but to force his demented thought process on the entire country would be just wrong. I never thought I'd think anyone could be worse than Gee-DUB, but this guy is worse by exponential measures. He talks a good game, but then after he gets elected, he decides to do exactly what he wants to do, not what those who voted for him want (or, even, expected) him to do.

Run.....run, very fast.....be afraid.....be very afraid!!

Cheers from Dugly!!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I see.

So, since you have what, may 30-40 people who live on your road (I'm guessing), who do you think is going to build a toll road to you? That would be no one.

Who is going to build an rural highways that get used rarely but are needed and necessary? Uh, no one.

Who is going to make sure that the roads are designed to safety rather than profitability standards? Uh, no one.

Lotsa crackpot ideas out there. Turn road construction into a for profit business is at the top of the list.

Jim is talking about paving an existing highway.

 

[Jeff Young]

Actually, he's talking about the overall concept of who should be building roads and, as you hint at, where and when those raods should be built.

I would suggest to you that if you left this up to the infallible free market, you'd have a shit ton of roads from Atlanta to DC to NY to Boston to Chicago to LA.

And quite likely not a lot else.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Actually, he's talking about the overall concept of who should be building roads and, as you hint at, where and when those raods should be built.

I would suggest to you that if you left this up to the infallible free market, you'd have a shit ton of roads from Atlanta to DC to NY to Boston to Chicago to LA.

And quite likely not a lot else.

The free market build the roads, the government makes them more expensive through buracracy. I didn't say where and when, I just noted the process to build them. You really need something to argue about, don't you?

 

[Jim Craik]

Al,

I don't think you understand what you are saying.

This started with you saying we do not need big government...you said that the private sector can do thing cheaper.

I did not ask you do explain Police or fire dept, I did not ask how the private sector would pay for the Coast Guard, I gave you a very simple problem.

Paving a section of Interstate 80, a highway that we already own. Quite possibly the easiest problem Government faces.

Your "free market" answer is to put toll booths at every entry to every Interstate in the country, thousands and thousands of toll booths. Thousands of new employees a whole new bureaucracy, a new tax. That does not even take into consideration the time and fuel lost to stopping and waiting to pay tolls. Just to pave an existing highway!

Now Al, we already have a system that does what you want, it's a fuel tax , the more you drive the more you pay! It's easily collected easily figured and already in place.

I know you are not a transportation expert, but I think you can see some of the problems that Government faces.

 

[Jim Craik]

Our Government that you so dispise already has a much better and cheaper system in place than what you suggest.

Even in this very simple problem, paving an existing highway, the government is much more efficient than you think.

And considerably cheaper than your "free market" idea!

 

[Jim Craik]

I see.

So, since you have what, may 30-40 people who live on your road (I'm guessing), who do you think is going to build a toll road to you? That would be no one.

Who is going to build an rural highways that get used rarely but are needed and necessary? Uh, no one.

Who is going to make sure that the roads are designed to safety rather than profitability standards? Uh, no one.

Lotsa crackpot ideas out there. Turn road construction into a for profit business is at the top of the list.

Jeff, I purposely did not go into the more difficult problems like paving local streets, because it's not necessary.

A very simple task, paving an existing highway has led our free market friends into billions of $ in new infrastructure thousands of new employees and a large new TAX that will last for ever!

Nuf said!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Al,

I don't think you understand what you are saying.

This started with you saying we do not need big government...you said that the private sector can do thing cheaper.

I did not ask you do explain Police or fire dept, I did not ask how the private sector would pay for the Coast Guard, I gave you a very simple problem.

Paving a section of Interstate 80, a highway that we already own. Quite possibly the easiest problem Government faces.

Your "free market" answer is to put toll booths at every entry to every Interstate in the country, thousands and thousands of toll booths. Thousands of new employees a whole new bureaucracy, a new tax. That does not even take into consideration the time and fuel lost to stopping and waiting to pay tolls. Just to pave an existing highway!

Now Al, we already have a system that does what you want, it's a fuel tax , the more you drive the more you pay! It's easily collected easily figured and already in place.

I know you are not a transportation expert, but I think you can see some of the problems that Government faces.

And I gave you a simple response.
Once more, pre-paid tolls with sensors, no booths. Toll money to be used for future upgrades and repairs. The fuel tax and road use tax are being pissed away on who knows what, if it wasn't there wouldn't be a problem. If the government were confined to using money for what it was meant for (Social Security, Medicare, etc) there would be less problems. If the government didn't see it as one big piggy bank that was theirs to break open and use any way they see fit to stay in office, there wouldn't be a problem. There are places for government, federal and local. Bigger government never solved anything.

 

[Jim Craik]

Al,

Do you really think that millions and millions of sensors, millions and millions of car transponders, billions of dollars tied up in pre paid fees. Are better than a simple fuel tax?

What happens if your pre paid transponder runs out, do the private road guys arrest you? You OK with that?

Hay Al ask your tea party friends what they think of having everywhere they go recorded!

 

[Jim Craik]

AL, i like you and i enjoy the debate, I'm trying to be nice here, but gees, you can't be serious!

The simplest thing the government does, paving a road has become incredibly complicated and costly.

You understand all roads would have to be "wired"

Take this idea of yours one step further........

Pre paid Police fees, pre paid fire fees, not paid up......let it burn?

Your plan is completey unworkable and you know it!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

AL, i like you and i enjoy the debate, I'm trying to be nice here, but gees, you can't be serious!

The simplest thing the government does, paving a road has become incredibly complicated and costly.

Take this idea of yours one step further........

Pre paid Police fees, pre paid fire fees, not paid up......let it burn?

Your plan is completey unworkable and you know it!

Some tolls back east are prepaid and a sticker is placed on the car with a sensor reading it, they've been around for years. To hell with tolls, use the taxes that are taken for it if you can find them. It's not complicated at all, but you are making the best of it. You really are obsessed with the Tea Party. I honestly don't know anyone in the Tea Party, but would not be bothered by it if I did. If nothing else, they've brought an awareness to the debt problem we have. I said that there is a place for government, Police belong there, the Rural fire department charges a pretty stiff fee if they fight your fire and you are not a member. How much government do you think is enough?