P4 with Maserati V-8?

[BDP]

Hello Guys,

I am a new member here but have been following Fran's progress for some time. I am thinking about purchasing a replica in the next 12 months and have narrowed my choice down to three vehicles: RCR P4, RCR 962 (if it can be made street legal) and finally a 550 Spyder with a Subaru motor. My first choice is the RCR P4.. I would like to keep the engine Italian, but without going broke doing it. I thought the Maserati engine may be a nice motor to place in the car? It is closely related to the Ferrari F430 motor, has around 400 horsepower and I think it would fit as it's dimensions are similar to the F360/F430 engines. It also makes a lovely noise, looks great, and is available for around $8000 for a nice 2005 4.2L motor: 394 Horsepower @ 7000rpm, 333 ft lb @ 4500rpm, stock. With a nice set of headers and exhaust I am sure this motor would make over 400 ponies.

Of course the correct motor for this car is a V-12, but it seems like the Ferrari motors would all cost way more money and hassle? The Mercedes S600 V-12 seems like a great choice for similar money to the Maserati engine, but I am not sure about a German motor in an Italian Ferrari replica? I think it is a low reving motor with a 6000rpm limit, heavier than the 400 pound Maserati V-8, and makes similar horsepower at 389, but more torque. I am also not sure how it sounds uncorked? Any thoughts would be appreciated from the members here, as well as Fran himself. Thanks guys.

 

[Doc Kaler]

Welcome!

Sounds like you're doing your homework. The M's HP, sound and Italian heritage would make a logical fit. Don't forget the need for an ECU to integrate into the plan.

 

[marc]

Having got the P4 and working it, you will enjoy. If you are wanting to go V12, see if Fran will make more room for you. It would also help if you are not real tall.

I considered a 330 GTC motor from the 60's as an option. It will not require the ecu, it is a f motor and it is very similar to the original. Cons are it is still not "cheap" and you would have to consider the maintenence on the motor, getting parts when they break, yada, yada. So I went with a crate motor, LS7.

 

[AdrianBurton]

if you want to hear the merc 12 here you go:

YouTube - Pagani Zonda R Sound and Launch Control
YouTube - Pagani Zonda R Burnout, Backfire and Accelerations!

 

[Mike]

I had a 550 with a Subaru Turbo motor. It looked great and was fast but it was a bit scary to drive quickly. There are some videos of it on youtube - YouTube - Vintage 550 Porsche Spyder - Subaru 2.0 Turbo II

The suspension was not very confidence inspiring.

If you intend to drive it fast on curves, I think you may be better off in one of Fran's cars with more modern suspension geometry.

 

[domtoni]

That Pagani sounds more like an F1 than a vintage Ferrari. i'd bet that with a proper exhaust the Merc could get pretty close to the Ferrari's sound. What about a BMW V12? The guys in South Africa used it in one of their cars.

 

[BDP]

Thank you for the warm welcome and responses everyone. I am very short, 5 feet 7, so perhaps that is a plus for packaging? The Pagani Zonda motor I thought was a 7.3 liter Brabus built engine, based loosely off the 600 engine? Please correct me if I am mistaken? I appreciate the comments about the 550 Spyder as that is another car I have been wanting for a while. I just received a quote for that car, turnkey for $45,000. A little more than I expected to be honest for that simple a vehicle. So with the P4 roller at $45,000 with me supplying the engine and gearbox, would around $65,000 sound in the ballpark for a complete car? Or am I way off and it would be higher? Thank you again everybody for your assistance.

 

[Mesa]

Make sure you qualify what a 'roller' vs 'turnkey' is between offerings. At RCR roller means the parts are sitting on or in the chassis - on mine the body was located and bolted down, the suspension is in place and it has wheels to roll on. There are many finishing options beyond that at RCR. Usually turnkey or semi tunkey is a much more compete build at time of delivery vs a roller.

BTW: I have a 360 Ferrari gearbox to bolt to that Masser if you need one.

 

[Alex]

You'll probably want to chat with Marc - who's building a p4 - about his recommendations with it.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/members/marc-madmax.html

I don't think 45k is over-priced, or anywhere near it. It may be a "simple" vehicle in terms that it doesn't have NAV, heated seats, bluetooth, etc.. etc..., but the quality of the mold and the parts used is top notch and worth every dollar.

 

[AdrianBurton]

here is one example of the bmw
YouTube - Jack's Ultima BMW V 12

here is another
Untitled Document
go to video 4

The engine in the Zonda is an AMG supplied unit, not Brabus.
Pagani Zonda C12 S Underhood Engine Suspension Photo 16

 

[marc]

Given the choice of motors and the ancillary cost of components necessary to get it in the car you may be very thin on the price of the car. your est 10k for a motor will easily turn into 15k, with engine mods to fit, computer wiring harness, fuel system etc. And dont think the other 10k will cover tranny, paint, misc hardware, nor some of the tools to assemble.
With bells and whistles you are pushing 70 to 90k given what you do.
If price is important forget the merc, fmotor, and go with a ZZ4 and a Audi or Porsche Box, That will match the performance of the original car and keep costs down. SBC parts are inexpensive and will be reliable. You don't have to paint with the gelcoat but most do (I am setting mine up for the track so I probably won't paint.

the more hp, the higher the cost.

I may be naive, but it is not about money. My wife thinks it is, but I don't listen to her. It keeps us married.

 

[domtoni]

Video 4 sounds about right for a P4, and the engine looks great as well. Perhaps you could find a Lamborghini V12 lurking somewhere, but could you put a Lambo engine into a F car?

 

[AdrianBurton]

Now that, I think, would ruffle a few feathers

 

[BDP]

Yes I realize I would need an ecu and the engine accessories which I would provide. But headers, exhaust, plumbing, wiring etc..etc.. would need to be done by Fran's shop. I was thinking of Rosso Corsa or Fly Yellow for the paint, or perhaps Aston Martin Storm Black. I would love to have the Ferrari gated shifter installed also. Just got a ride in a friends straight piped 550 Maranello....wow what a sound! I am not sure that motor will fit in either the car or my budget....It seems that $95,000 may be a more realistic number with me supplying the complete engine and transmission. Does anyone have some interior pics of the P4 cabin...my wife is wondering if she will be comfortable....let's hope not!

 

[BDP]

I had a 550 with a Subaru Turbo motor. It looked great and was fast but it was a bit scary to drive quickly. There are some videos of it on youtube - YouTube - Vintage 550 Porsche Spyder - Subaru 2.0 Turbo II

The suspension was not very confidence inspiring.

If you intend to drive it fast on curves, I think you may be better off in one of Fran's cars with more modern suspension geometry.

Thanks for the video. That may have put me off the Spyder!! :lipsrsealed:

 

[BDP]

Given the choice of motors and the ancillary cost of components necessary to get it in the car you may be very thin on the price of the car. your est 10k for a motor will easily turn into 15k, with engine mods to fit, computer wiring harness, fuel system etc. And dont think the other 10k will cover tranny, paint, misc hardware, nor some of the tools to assemble.
With bells and whistles you are pushing 70 to 90k given what you do.
If price is important forget the merc, fmotor, and go with a ZZ4 and a Audi or Porsche Box, That will match the performance of the original car and keep costs down. SBC parts are inexpensive and will be reliable. You don't have to paint with the gelcoat but most do (I am setting mine up for the track so I probably won't paint.

the more hp, the higher the cost.

I may be naive, but it is not about money. My wife thinks it is, but I don't listen to her. It keeps us married.

I appreciate the post Marc. But I will save some extra pennies to place the Maserati, or Mercedes motor in the car if I go the P4 route. If I did the 962 car I would want a Porsche Turbo motor in that car to be closer to the real thing. Now if it was a Cobra or GT40 then I would be happy to place a big domestic thumping V-8 in the car! :thumbsup:

 

[Mark]

I have a Ferrari V12 from a 456GT going in my P4.

Here's a pic of the Ferrari cockpit a few years ago when the car was in spider config.

Good luck on your journey.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Video 4 sounds about right for a P4, and the engine looks great as well. Perhaps you could find a Lamborghini V12 lurking somewhere, but could you put a Lambo engine into a F car?

Every Espada has the same 4 liter motor as the 400 GT and early Miuras. The later Miuras were heated up a little, and doing so on your own would not be difficult (cams, springs, head mill, etc.). Espadas are relatively cheap, especally one with problems, because they are not worth restoring (in the purely financial sense). The engine is easy to rebuild and parts are not hard to find (GT Car Parts in Phoenix has everything). Once rebuilt the engines are pretty bullet-proof.

Now, is a Lamborghini motor in a P4 a better solution than a German V12? I don't know. It could be a good compromise or it could be a case of "shooting between two targets." With 456s and 550s at the price of dirt these days and descending that's got to be an alternative as well. Also there are the later 12 cyl. 4-seat F-cars (400i, etc) to consider; they're not worth any more than an Espada, AFAIK. Maybe less.

And don't forget Countach and Diablo.....with those you get a perfeclty good transaxle as well, but I have no idea how it would fit into one of Fran's cars.

 

[BDP]

I have a Ferrari V12 from a 456GT going in my P4.

Here's a pic of the Ferrari cockpit a few years ago when the car was in spider config.

Good luck on your journey.

Thanks for the picture! I didn't think the 456/550 engine fit in the RCR P4?

 

[BDP]

Here is the sound that the Maserati engine makes in a stock car:

YouTube - Maserati GranTurismo MC Stradale


With a set of headers and exhaust I am sure this would be an acceptable noise! :shocked: