P4 with Maserati V-8?

[Cliff Beer]

The maser V8 is a wonderful choice for the RCR P4. That'll be a heck of a car.

Yes, the maser V8 is almost the same as the 430 - just a little less hp/tq as I remember, but very close. The delta was more about marketing to a niche, and not cannibalizing 430 sales than anything else.

That engine will sound great, should package OK (easier than a V12 I think) and be pretty darn reliable once the ecu is adapted. One concern is that I believe that ecu is going to be pretty complex to adapt.

Also, what transaxle are you thinking about using? Obviously, the 430 transaxle would be pretty easy to use....but expensive......

 

[Mark]

Thanks for the picture! I didn't think the 456/550 engine fit in the RCR P4?

Fran would need to step in here. My P4 isn't an RCR. I have a tube framed chassis, which may be easier to adapt than Fran's Mono? (Easier being a relative term). But Fran has fitted the 400i V12 into one of his P4's, so I can't see why the 456/550 lump couldn't be squeezed in there.

You certainly have an advantage as far as your height is concerned. The major problem is getting it all in and maintaining a reasonable drive shaft angle whilst maintaining enough cabin space for the occupants.

I was offered a Lambo V12 for my car. As mentioned by others, I couldn't see why a Lambo engine was a better choice than any other non-Ferrari powerplant. I think that if you can't afford to make a Ferrari V12 fit, then a Ferrari V8 is the best plan B compromise, IMO.

The Masser V8 is not a bad choice at all, but then many Ferrari V8 motors with trans and ecu etc can be found for reasonable money these days as a complete package. There is a guy here in the UK with a 355 eng/trans who is doing a great job with his P4.

My car originally had a SBC/Porsche combo in it. I thought I could live with that, but as time went on rebuilding the car, I reached a point where all the work/money spent wasn't justified IMO if the engine package was non Ferrari.

Asking myself now "would I do it again", then I would answer "NO". I could have dropped an F V8 in there so much easier and been finished a year ago. Still I hope it will be worth it in the end.

 

[John]

I think Mesa on this forum still has his Ferrari 360 engine/trans for sale.

 

[BDP]

Fran would need to step in here. My P4 isn't an RCR. I have a tube framed chassis, which may be easier to adapt than Fran's Mono? (Easier being a relative term). But Fran has fitted the 400i V12 into one of his P4's, so I can't see why the 456/550 lump couldn't be squeezed in there.

You certainly have an advantage as far as your height is concerned. The major problem is getting it all in and maintaining a reasonable drive shaft angle whilst maintaining enough cabin space for the occupants.

I was offered a Lambo V12 for my car. As mentioned by others, I couldn't see why a Lambo engine was a better choice than any other non-Ferrari powerplant. I think that if you can't afford to make a Ferrari V12 fit, then a Ferrari V8 is the best plan B compromise, IMO.

The Masser V8 is not a bad choice at all, but then many Ferrari V8 motors with trans and ecu etc can be found for reasonable money these days as a complete package. There is a guy here in the UK with a 355 eng/trans who is doing a great job with his P4.

My car originally had a SBC/Porsche combo in it. I thought I could live with that, but as time went on rebuilding the car, I reached a point where all the work/money spent wasn't justified IMO if the engine package was non Ferrari.

Asking myself now "would I do it again", then I would answer "NO". I could have dropped an F V8 in there so much easier and been finished a year ago. Still I hope it will be worth it in the end.

Thank you for the detailed response. I was thinking of a Porsche transaxle or perhaps the Ferrari unit, but I think the G50 is about all my budget will allow. I think that would also be easier for Fran to use? I may look at a 4.7 engine as it has a little more grunt, but I think even the 4.2 should move the 2300 pound car fairly well....
By my calculations it should do:

0-60 3.8 seconds
0-100 8.5 seconds
11.8@118mph 1/4 mile.

That's with 400 horsepower. Plenty fast enough!

 

[BDP]

Anyone with a P4 can you let me know what tire sizes you decided to go with? Still debating on the 15 inch and 17 inch choice as I like the tire selection of 17's much better. If anyone has pictures they could link or post I would love to see what the car looks like on different wheel and tire combos. I remember when I lived in London seeing a Noble P4 car with skinny 16 inch 225 rear tires on it and it looked horrible. Thanks guys!

 

[marc]

You can check out my build some where on the in this bbs or at picasaweb.google.com/marc.madmax

those are 15" Avon cut slicks

 

[Alex]

You can check out my build some where on the in this bbs or at picasaweb.google.com/marc.madmax

those are 15" Avon cut slicks

Is the spyder section of it difficult to remove? I was studying your pics and noticed how in the front and back the spyder curves underneath the aluminum. Can't figure out how the heck you remove it?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

The P4 cab installs in one piece from the front of the chassis and slides on....it does come off but it takes a couple of people.

 

[BDP]

You can check out my build some where on the in this bbs or at picasaweb.google.com/marc.madmax

those are 15" Avon cut slicks

Thanks for the post Marc...those 15's do look great! I guess I am just worried about the lack of tire choices in the 15 inch sizes. What sizes did you go with front and rear?

 

[Jim Kreber]

The first photo is my P4 with 295/50VR15 Avons on the rear and 225/65VR15 on the front.

The fronts didn't fill the wheel openings very well so I replaced them with the 245/60VR15 Avons. I think they looked much better.

 

[Alex]

^^ 2nd pic looks killer :thumbsup:

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Thank you for the detailed response. I was thinking of a Porsche transaxle or perhaps the Ferrari unit, but I think the G50 is about all my budget will allow. I think that would also be easier for Fran to use? I may look at a 4.7 engine as it has a little more grunt, but I think even the 4.2 should move the 2300 pound car fairly well....
By my calculations it should do:

0-60 3.8 seconds
0-100 8.5 seconds
11.8@118mph 1/4 mile.

That's with 400 horsepower. Plenty fast enough!

Mine weighs 1800 lbs and has 450 HP.

It's numbers are no where near that.

 

[BDP]

Thanks for the pics! The Avons look beefy in the 245 size in front. As for my performance estimates...perhaps I am being optimistic? What kind of times are you seeing with your real P4 Jim?

 

[BDP]

Looking at other cars with a mid engine design, similar weights and power I think my numbers should be pretty accurate? Of course gearing, and more importantly traction will play a big part in the acceleration numbers. That is why I was looking at possibly using 17 inch tires, as the choices in 15's seem like Avons or all season tires.



Ultima GTR - Specs - Car and Driver


Ultima GTR:

VEHICLE TYPE: mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 2-passenger, 2-door coupe
PRICE AS TESTED: $152,150 (base price: $138,300)
ENGINE TYPE: pushrod 16-valve V-8, aluminum block and heads, GM engine-control system with port fuel injection
Displacement: 346 cu in, 5663cc
Power (SAE net): 345 bhp @ 5600 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 350 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
TRANSMISSION: 5-speed manual
DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 100.0 in Length: 162.0 in
Curb weight: 2314 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.4 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 26.3 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 3.9 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 11.9 sec @ 117 mph




Rossion Q1 - Specialty File - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver


Rossion Q1 a.k.a Noble M400 test:


Displacement: 181 cu in, 2967 cc
Power (mfr's claim): 450 bhp @ 6500 rpm
Torque (mfr's claim): 390 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 96.0 in Length: 162.0 in
Width: 69.5 in Height: 45.0 in
Curb weight: 2600 lb
C/D-TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 7.6 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 18.0 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 4.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.6 sec @ 125 mph


The Rossion is a mid engined car weighing 2600 pounds, with 450 horsepower. The Ultima GTR is 2300 pounds and only has 345 horsepower and did exactly the numbers I posted for my P4 build. Of course the Rossion did have Michelin Pilot Cup tires, but no launch control, and a 6 speed manual box. I am hopeful that I can extract 450 ponies from the Maserati V-8, and then my RCR P4 should have similar speed to the Rossion. :thumbsup:

 

[domtoni]

Just a thought. Jim's P4 may have different gearing (to 200MPH) and not designed for 150 MPH races.

 

[Tom]

I'd also guess that unless Jim's car has been tuned recently, it may not be putting out 450 HP

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Jims car was recently tuned by Jim Kinsler here in Detroit....runs like a champ from what I am told....I know it sounded lovely at Daytona this year...

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Jims car was recently tuned by Jim Kinsler here in Detroit....runs like a champ from what I am told....I know it sounded lovely at Daytona this year...

He's the best for Lucas Mechanical FI. Very nice guy. 0846 is running great. She does have her Le Mans gearing which is good to 199 MPH.

Daytona was pretty emotional.

Fran where will you be racing your car? If you head to Lime Rock let me know.

Best

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Jim,

we will be running at VIR, Mid Ohio and Summit point....we dont have Lime Rock on the schedule but will certainly keep you posted...

Looks like the competizione is progressing well....

 

[Les]

Dear BDP:

If you could just wait a minute before purchasing expensive Italian engine alloy, remember that with active mufflers, any engine can be made to sound like any other engine.

So, for example, if you bought a Chevrolet LS-7 engine, you would get a very good, reliable engine that is relatively economical to buy. It is very powerful as well.

The active mufflers could make it sound just like the P4 you hear singing in your memory!

Chevrolet power with Ferrari sound: could it be love without undue expense?

Bassanio et Portia