Presidential Address - Do you waste the...
- Thread starter Big-Foot
- Start date
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Well as you are aware I enjoy the debates and sometimes take a viewpoint that is opposite to what I think just too "stir the pot" so to speak.
This conversation started because of a personal attack on me for expressing an opinion that apparently Australian's should not have an opinion about. Well I have a thick skin and I am not easily offended so bring it on.
Having said that,
This is The Paddock Off Topic forum where anything goes! If you don't like politcal debate, risque jokes, pit popsies etc and only want too read car stuff. Don't come to The Paddock. There is plenty of car stuff to read and discuss in the other sections of the forum. IMHO.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
See, I didn't see that as a personal attack -- I saw his point, which was this is a US problem since it is in our international waters, and our coast line.
Was it crass? Yep.
But was it accurate in some ways? Yep.
So, honestly Pete, I think this is another example of where you can come on here and call things many of us believe in and respect stupid, or dangerous, or whatever, and not expect that to be considered an insult.
And yet, when it is turn around time, you start getting all worked about being called names. So at least this Ugly American (who loves traveling, and has met many Aussies out west in teh US and had a great time with then) thinks your skin isn't as thick as you claim.
Unfortunately, that seems to be a pretty normal characteristic of the "right" -- free speech for all! Unless you disagree, and then I call ad hominem on you and shut you down. Left does it too, but I hate it when EITHER side gets all high and mighty about it.
I like the debate too. But I like it to be civil. That's all I'm saying.
Was it crass? Yep.
But was it accurate in some ways? Yep.
So, honestly Pete, I think this is another example of where you can come on here and call things many of us believe in and respect stupid, or dangerous, or whatever, and not expect that to be considered an insult.
And yet, when it is turn around time, you start getting all worked about being called names. So at least this Ugly American (who loves traveling, and has met many Aussies out west in teh US and had a great time with then) thinks your skin isn't as thick as you claim.
Unfortunately, that seems to be a pretty normal characteristic of the "right" -- free speech for all! Unless you disagree, and then I call ad hominem on you and shut you down. Left does it too, but I hate it when EITHER side gets all high and mighty about it.
I like the debate too. But I like it to be civil. That's all I'm saying.
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I don't remember anyone calling me names unless being called an Australian is in that category? I don't think so.
I find it interesting that those from the left are happy to debate anything while they appear to be winning but want to censor or stifle the debate when they appear to be losing or public opinion turns against them.
Global warming is a case in point.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Your words:
This conversation started because of a personal attack on me for expressing an opinion that apparently Australian's should not have an opinion about.
There is no personal attack in what that fellow posted. He just stated a fact (crassly): you are an Australian and other than in a global sense, it's not really your problem. You read that as a personal attack. You need to get the thicker skin you profess to have, if you really want to debate.
Global warming? Debate away. Sure, some folks on the left want to shout others down. That's not what I'm saying and you are changing the subject.
I'm just saying don't come here and assume (like many do) that EVERYONE agrees with you, and think about what you are saying with some of the more outlandish stuff that gets posted here that can be read as an attack on the core beliefs others have.
And I do find it interesting that the "right" will use free speech as an excuse to be loud, obnoxious, offensive (both personnally and in general) and just down right dumb. But that is your CHOICE.
So make your choice.
This conversation started because of a personal attack on me for expressing an opinion that apparently Australian's should not have an opinion about.
There is no personal attack in what that fellow posted. He just stated a fact (crassly): you are an Australian and other than in a global sense, it's not really your problem. You read that as a personal attack. You need to get the thicker skin you profess to have, if you really want to debate.
Global warming? Debate away. Sure, some folks on the left want to shout others down. That's not what I'm saying and you are changing the subject.
I'm just saying don't come here and assume (like many do) that EVERYONE agrees with you, and think about what you are saying with some of the more outlandish stuff that gets posted here that can be read as an attack on the core beliefs others have.
And I do find it interesting that the "right" will use free speech as an excuse to be loud, obnoxious, offensive (both personnally and in general) and just down right dumb. But that is your CHOICE.
So make your choice.
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Are you now calling me loud obnoxious and downright dumb?
I thought you wanted to keep things cordial?
I thought you wanted to keep things cordial?
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
No Pete. I said "the right" will do that on occassion, and more so (seemingly) as of late. Hannity. Beck (my God!). Limbaugh. Colter. And on, and on, and on.
Not you. The guy who has the thick skin.
Not you. The guy who has the thick skin.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Oh, I must have mistakenly assumed you thought I was part of "the right".
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Terry, at times it seems that you let your thoughts go to print before your brain has a chance to evaluate them. Try something constuctive.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
You did. I'm an infrequent visitor here, and honestly don't know what your personal politics are. Or whether "right" and "left" in Australia take similar positions as in the US (where the "left" tends to be centerist compared to the traditional Labour/Left parties of Europe). In scanning a few of your posts/threads in the last few minutes, you seem like a pretty reasonable guy. I don't agree with a lot of what you say but that's life so long as the disagreement is reasonable and civil.
When I talk generally of the "right," I'm talking the "right" in the context of this particularly virulent stream of yelling talking headdom we have here in the US now that is anti-gay, wacko pro religion and family values, thinks any social welfare program is communist, has an armory in the garage and thinks even letting the government know is a violation of his rights, thinks President Obama was born in Kenya and sent here by Lenin's ghost to convert us all to comrades, etc. The left has the same disease; Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddox are just as bad as the yack jobs of the right.
So, my apologies (sincere), and next time I will be clearer when I use a general political term like that.
When I talk generally of the "right," I'm talking the "right" in the context of this particularly virulent stream of yelling talking headdom we have here in the US now that is anti-gay, wacko pro religion and family values, thinks any social welfare program is communist, has an armory in the garage and thinks even letting the government know is a violation of his rights, thinks President Obama was born in Kenya and sent here by Lenin's ghost to convert us all to comrades, etc. The left has the same disease; Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddox are just as bad as the yack jobs of the right.
So, my apologies (sincere), and next time I will be clearer when I use a general political term like that.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
No need for an apology as I took no offense. (see I am thick skinned:laugh
But thank you all the same.
If asked I describe myself as a Libertarian Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Not to be confused with what you guys call a Liberal.
Stay well.
But thank you all the same.
If asked I describe myself as a Libertarian Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Not to be confused with what you guys call a Liberal.
Stay well.
Jeff, you make an interesting point.
The politics of left, right and centre are vastly different in the US compared to the UK and Europe (apologies Pete, but I don't know the situation in your neck of the woods).
Our Right wing is your centre, and our left wing would be shot immediately for being waaaaaaaay too radical.
What worries me hugely is the link between the US right wing and the pro religion lobbly. I'm agnostic (i.e. an atheist who's hedging his bets
) and I worry that there will never be a US president again that is not pro religion. There is no longer a separation of Church and State in the US (as shown by the issue of Creationism Vs Darwin)....Slight thread drift, but I just wanted to agree with your point regarding the perception of left and right...
Graham.