I have tried to add this to the thread "A Roaring Forties with all the options" but it doesn't seem to work...
I guess it's time I finally wrote a review of my car - RF085.
In many ways the car has exceeded my expectations but this has been at the expense of some of my original goals.
I had envisioned using the car in various local motor-sport events and it has become apparent that that will not be likely. It would take effort that I am no longer prepared to put in to it.
While the car was being built, Robert Logan and I agreed that I would do development aimed at making the car a better track car. It had much built into it that would support this end. The car would however still need work when I got it and Robert agreed to provide factory assistance in that area.
To cut a long story short, that agreement foundered with the original RF. In fact it was looking shaky even before I knew what was happening to his business. I think Robert was unwilling to believe that the car was not straight away a winner, and to some extent believed that I may be the cause. He speaks well and massages egos but he is readable through that.
As an aside I never judged Robert to be a bad man, I trusted him and in the majority he did not let me down. He had a passion for the car and his business that seemed to run quite deep. I realise that some will be angered by these words and I understand that. It is my opinion that what happened to RF was despite Robert's best efforts. It seems those best efforts were nowhere near good enough and somewhat misguided, many victims can attest to that. What seems to have happened since then has changed my opinion of Robert somewhat but I still don't consider I have much of an understanding as I am nowhere near the "action". I remind that my own experience was in the main positive.
I wish for the best for those of you unfortunate enough to have been caught up in the original RF's demise and also wish RF-reborn good luck.
Enough on that.
When the car arrived it was obviously well down on the power it was supposed to have. I had asked for an engine with certain goals and got something entirely different. The tune was terrible and has only recently been finalised. I still find it hard to believe how far out it was. A rush job maybe?
After initial retuning I discovered a lovely tractable high performance street engine, still far short of my original specification, but an engine I have since found difficult to consider changing.
The main culprits as far as power is concerned, are I believe the cam, inlet manifold and throttle bodies. Perhaps not difficult to resolve, but I found myself in the difficult position of having to choose whether or not to give up one of the nicest V8s I have ever driven for something more cantankerous. More on this later.
When I received the car I drove it around for a couple of days trying to get used to it. Apart from extremely heavy steering the car didn't feel too bad so I decided to take it on faith and try it at the track. This was to be just a fun day and not a real setup and test day. My rush to try it out turned out to be a mistake.
After a few laps it became obvious that there were problems with the handling.
At this point I will point out that I have some experience with racing cars and track work and have done many many laps of my local track. I hold, in one of my cars, the course record for a local hillclimb. That car has close to 600bhp, although at the hillclimb it had closer to 400bhp using a milder engine. I believe I am qualified to drive the GT and make some comments about its performance. The car has also been driven by the man most likely to win the local rally championship this year and he agrees with my opinions.
The main problem with the GT was in the rear end and turned out to be fairly simple to resolve. It had roll oversteer like an old van. Video of a lap which resulted in a spin shows that most of the outside rear tyre was not actually in contact with the road through one corner. The wear on the tyres was very revealing also. After a day at the track, almost no tread was left on the outside while nipples/dags remained from the middle to the virtually untouched inside. This was from camber change, not from static camber being positive (which it wasn't).
Some new rear arms and some careful toying with the geometry fixed that problem. I hasten to add that this problem was in part due to the tyre which the manufacturer has since advised requires quite a lot more static camber than originally specified.
Next, with the help of Koni, some new front and rear springs were installed and the shocks adjusted. The result of this simple work was a MUCH improved car.
The car is now quite good in this area although whether or not it's good enough is yet to be established... and may now never be.
There were some other contributing factors to difficulties on the first day, a bent sway bar among them.
One of the biggest problems I have encountered is the steering. We have made some progress in fixing it but I am still far from happy, in fact it keeps me from driving the car. It was very notchy which has pretty much been fixed now, very imprecise and vague which we have not managed to fix yet, very slow (far too many turns lock to lock), and heavy enough to aggravate an old shoulder injury (curse motorbikes ) to the point that it feels close to dislocating.
Some relief was had by reducing castor by 3 degrees. I was told by an RF contracted engineer that so much castor was used to mask bump steer...
The steering geometry (including the design of the uprights) is to blame for most of this I feel and is the thing highest on my priority list.
The above may sound a bit negative but I stress that overall the car is built beautifully and most systems, such as cooling, work extremely well. There was obviously a lot of thought and work put into my car by RF.
Manufacture faults have been fairly limited and those that I brought to RF's attention were fixed by them.
As a track car it still needs quite a lot of development and, without the agreement I had, does not seem so attractive. I have other cars and one, mentioned above, is now performing extremely well in competition.
So - it seems that the GT has been retired from competition before it began.
By competition I mean things like club events, tarmac events etc, not serious circuit racing such as Ross is involved in. I was intending to do as much as I could with this car and then possibly buy another lighter version to be serious with once lessons had been learned. This was always intended as a multi-purpose car, it's just that now those purposes have been reduced in number.
Now it is time for me to thank the engine builder. You know who you are, I am very grateful to you for the engine you built me. It is without doubt the best V8 I have ever used on the road, ever! I hope my above writing on the subject did not upset you. I realise that the inlet was not in your hands and also that the cam, lifters etc are easy to change if I want to make it more "raceable". I have faith in it's strength and potential.
I am aware that engine dyno' numbers after being built were as specified and that the "problems" are mostly more local in origin.
I also thank all those that were RF that strived to build such a great car. It has its weaknesses and its purpose has changed because of them, but except for the steering, you have built me a fantastic car!
I apologise that I can't do much in the way of an "on the road" review because I haven't driven it much due to the incompatability of the steering and my shoulder.
Finally, I once again wish the best to those that have been caught in the demise of the old RF. I have been reticent to write the above because of that, but caution to the wind I guess...
I hope no offence has been caused, none was intended. I felt that I should write of my experience without colouring it too much with what has happened to others.
Once again also, good luck to RF-reborn!
Tim.
I guess it's time I finally wrote a review of my car - RF085.
In many ways the car has exceeded my expectations but this has been at the expense of some of my original goals.
I had envisioned using the car in various local motor-sport events and it has become apparent that that will not be likely. It would take effort that I am no longer prepared to put in to it.
While the car was being built, Robert Logan and I agreed that I would do development aimed at making the car a better track car. It had much built into it that would support this end. The car would however still need work when I got it and Robert agreed to provide factory assistance in that area.
To cut a long story short, that agreement foundered with the original RF. In fact it was looking shaky even before I knew what was happening to his business. I think Robert was unwilling to believe that the car was not straight away a winner, and to some extent believed that I may be the cause. He speaks well and massages egos but he is readable through that.
As an aside I never judged Robert to be a bad man, I trusted him and in the majority he did not let me down. He had a passion for the car and his business that seemed to run quite deep. I realise that some will be angered by these words and I understand that. It is my opinion that what happened to RF was despite Robert's best efforts. It seems those best efforts were nowhere near good enough and somewhat misguided, many victims can attest to that. What seems to have happened since then has changed my opinion of Robert somewhat but I still don't consider I have much of an understanding as I am nowhere near the "action". I remind that my own experience was in the main positive.
I wish for the best for those of you unfortunate enough to have been caught up in the original RF's demise and also wish RF-reborn good luck.
Enough on that.
When the car arrived it was obviously well down on the power it was supposed to have. I had asked for an engine with certain goals and got something entirely different. The tune was terrible and has only recently been finalised. I still find it hard to believe how far out it was. A rush job maybe?
After initial retuning I discovered a lovely tractable high performance street engine, still far short of my original specification, but an engine I have since found difficult to consider changing.
The main culprits as far as power is concerned, are I believe the cam, inlet manifold and throttle bodies. Perhaps not difficult to resolve, but I found myself in the difficult position of having to choose whether or not to give up one of the nicest V8s I have ever driven for something more cantankerous. More on this later.
When I received the car I drove it around for a couple of days trying to get used to it. Apart from extremely heavy steering the car didn't feel too bad so I decided to take it on faith and try it at the track. This was to be just a fun day and not a real setup and test day. My rush to try it out turned out to be a mistake.
After a few laps it became obvious that there were problems with the handling.
At this point I will point out that I have some experience with racing cars and track work and have done many many laps of my local track. I hold, in one of my cars, the course record for a local hillclimb. That car has close to 600bhp, although at the hillclimb it had closer to 400bhp using a milder engine. I believe I am qualified to drive the GT and make some comments about its performance. The car has also been driven by the man most likely to win the local rally championship this year and he agrees with my opinions.
The main problem with the GT was in the rear end and turned out to be fairly simple to resolve. It had roll oversteer like an old van. Video of a lap which resulted in a spin shows that most of the outside rear tyre was not actually in contact with the road through one corner. The wear on the tyres was very revealing also. After a day at the track, almost no tread was left on the outside while nipples/dags remained from the middle to the virtually untouched inside. This was from camber change, not from static camber being positive (which it wasn't).
Some new rear arms and some careful toying with the geometry fixed that problem. I hasten to add that this problem was in part due to the tyre which the manufacturer has since advised requires quite a lot more static camber than originally specified.
Next, with the help of Koni, some new front and rear springs were installed and the shocks adjusted. The result of this simple work was a MUCH improved car.
The car is now quite good in this area although whether or not it's good enough is yet to be established... and may now never be.
There were some other contributing factors to difficulties on the first day, a bent sway bar among them.
One of the biggest problems I have encountered is the steering. We have made some progress in fixing it but I am still far from happy, in fact it keeps me from driving the car. It was very notchy which has pretty much been fixed now, very imprecise and vague which we have not managed to fix yet, very slow (far too many turns lock to lock), and heavy enough to aggravate an old shoulder injury (curse motorbikes ) to the point that it feels close to dislocating.
Some relief was had by reducing castor by 3 degrees. I was told by an RF contracted engineer that so much castor was used to mask bump steer...
The steering geometry (including the design of the uprights) is to blame for most of this I feel and is the thing highest on my priority list.
The above may sound a bit negative but I stress that overall the car is built beautifully and most systems, such as cooling, work extremely well. There was obviously a lot of thought and work put into my car by RF.
Manufacture faults have been fairly limited and those that I brought to RF's attention were fixed by them.
As a track car it still needs quite a lot of development and, without the agreement I had, does not seem so attractive. I have other cars and one, mentioned above, is now performing extremely well in competition.
So - it seems that the GT has been retired from competition before it began.
By competition I mean things like club events, tarmac events etc, not serious circuit racing such as Ross is involved in. I was intending to do as much as I could with this car and then possibly buy another lighter version to be serious with once lessons had been learned. This was always intended as a multi-purpose car, it's just that now those purposes have been reduced in number.
Now it is time for me to thank the engine builder. You know who you are, I am very grateful to you for the engine you built me. It is without doubt the best V8 I have ever used on the road, ever! I hope my above writing on the subject did not upset you. I realise that the inlet was not in your hands and also that the cam, lifters etc are easy to change if I want to make it more "raceable". I have faith in it's strength and potential.
I am aware that engine dyno' numbers after being built were as specified and that the "problems" are mostly more local in origin.
I also thank all those that were RF that strived to build such a great car. It has its weaknesses and its purpose has changed because of them, but except for the steering, you have built me a fantastic car!
I apologise that I can't do much in the way of an "on the road" review because I haven't driven it much due to the incompatability of the steering and my shoulder.
Finally, I once again wish the best to those that have been caught in the demise of the old RF. I have been reticent to write the above because of that, but caution to the wind I guess...
I hope no offence has been caused, none was intended. I felt that I should write of my experience without colouring it too much with what has happened to others.
Once again also, good luck to RF-reborn!
Tim.