Superformance

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
So if I want todays technology in a car that looks identical to the 60s legend, than Tornado is it as the other companies are trying to use 'original' or remanufactured as original parts?

And If I said carbon fibre body isnt a must but I do want to have my own interior madewith CF as that looks good and I do want 'better' than 60s suspension,

Does that again eliminate all but tornado?

That would be it I assume
 
And If I said carbon fibre body isnt a must but I do want to have my own interior madewith CF as that looks good and I do want 'better' than 60s suspension,


That would be it I assume

George

than check out RCR.
- aluminium monocoque
- cnc manfacutered aluminium suspension components ( wishbones, uprights).
- lightweight body option on request
- ADR compliancy

TOM
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Hello - Me again

CF tub, CF Body, Supercar

Speak to Ascari their car fits all 3
Ascari A10
and
Ascari Cars


They also have employees that used to work ar GTD so perhaps you could talk them into skinning on in "GT40 clothing"

Also Southern GT already offers CF bodywork - their chassis is a spaceframe unit

Ian
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Hi

Ascarri dont make cars I like the look of at all.

If I didnt want a GT40 body shaped car, Id be getting a Lamborghini Diablo with a carbon fibre body.

Its not just body parts im after... Im after the GT40 shape and look... just hypercar performance.

Ive spoken to Tornado, they might be able to do a CF body or acquire 1 and get it to work with the monocoque chasis they do in CF.

I guess my only concern is that ive seen replica/kitt cars before and its very easy to tell its not the 'real' thing as the lines are not 100% right, or the look of the car just looks 'copied' and I dont know how good Tornado or these guys do the car... will it look like the real thing or will it look like someone tried to copy something which gives it a cheap look vs the original. If the quality work is 100% on exterior, then u couldnt tell the difference between that and an original 1 if they were side by side.. then fine, thats what i expect when I pay the money

Ive seen lamborghini replicas n they 'yeah have the right lines' but it still for some reason doesnt look like the real thing n looks cheap n nasty like a knockoff. Thats what i DONT want to end up with in a gT40.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
G-man;343223will it look like the real thing or will it look like someone tried to copy something which gives it a cheap look vs the original. [/QUOTE said:
That's easy... all the ones we've discussed look like the original. None of them look like a cheap copy.
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
This is one of those discussions that circulate endlessly. So I'll add my two cents.

I think there are only two groups of original GT40s- the cars built in period by FAV and JW, and the cars built in the 80s and 90s by Safir GT40 Ltd. Yes, my car has a Safir serial number, and I appreciate their doing that, and yes it has a Mark I chassis, but my car was begun in the late 90s and only completed within the last year. Mine is, essentially, a replica- a very good one in some respects, but still a replica. Mine is not as good as Jimmy and Ali's cars, which are so dead-nuts accurate that there is no reason they would NOT get an historic technical passport. And they ought to- any car which is bolt-for-bolt identical to a 1960s GT40 ought to have an HTP. Yes, it's a replica, but so what? this includes the Gelscoe cars which are far more accurate than mine as well. They are all of them replicas. The cars built by David Brown in NZ are, from what I know, just as accurate as the Mirage or Gelscoe cars and they ought to be eligible for HTPs as well. And yes, in my eyes, they are replicas. Not continuations, not toolroom copies, not tributes- none of that BS. They are all replicas. How accurate- now there's the rub, as your British playwright once said.

I feel strongly that the thing which defines the originality of a GT40 car is how the chassis is built. Original cars had a sheet-steel monocoque and if you are trying to build an accurate replica of a GT40, it should have a sheet-steel monocoque made on the original pattern. I think that cars built with space-frame construction of the chassis are far less accurate. I also think that originality of running gear is important- to have the proper engine and a ZF transaxle are all important as well. And the list goes on- my car doesn't have the right hub carriers or brakes, and it has CV joints, not Metalastik couplings, it has a different clutch. Would I change those things? Maybe the brakes and the uprights. The rest I wanted that way.

One more thing- it is clearly documented in many reference sources that GT40s were built with CF bodywork in the late sixties and that the 68 and 69 LM winner, 1075, was fitted with CF bodywork. So it was original and no one should feel that putting CF bodywork on a GT40 compromises its originality. A CF tub? that's another thing entirely. It may be an interesting experiment, but the originality of such a replica goes out the window.

Of course, it will be lethally fast. And, since it's a replica anyway, why not? This is all about going fast and having a good time, after all.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
This is one of those discussions that circulate endlessly.
Actually it isn't, unless we turn it into one of those.

This original poster is not raising the usual "degree of historical accuracy" issues. Some of us are dragging them in.

Consider for example the following quotes from the OP:

  • "If I want todays technology in a car that looks identical to the 60s legend..." (emphasis mine)
  • "And If I said carbon fibre body isnt a must but I do want to have my own interior madewith CF as that looks good and I do want 'better' than 60s suspension,"
  • "Id rather use better than original material, I would rather design my own dash and interior seats... along with my own carbon fiber centre console my own choice of 6 speed gearbox and my own choice of big-block EFI engine."
That, and most of his other posts, pretty clearly says he's not interested in all the Gelscoe vs Mirage vs Safir vs Superformance issues, but rather wants the external appearance of a GT40 and no technical sacrifices made internally for historical reasons. Rather, he wants yesterday's body, "today's technology" and a completely different interior.

This cries out for starting with an RCR, in my opinion, and is basically the answer to the original question.
 
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George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Hi, thanks for everything.

Good to learn whats out there but the whole original stuff did confuse me a little as the only thing I was really after is an Original GT40, worth 2milion dollars to then modify/customize it in performance etc to be what I want it to be. Since thats the case, I shouldnt spend 2 milion on a real one (not that I could, just as example) to modify it when I could have simply built a gt40 ground up how I do want (modified from the start rather than modifying a completed car).

When I was looking at lambos, I wasnt happy with there performance for price tag as there are other stuff out there that could go even better for less, so I wanted to modify there suspension etc... but thats crazy cause id be paying first 200,000 to get the car, and then 200,000 to modify.

When I signed up to this website, I was thankful for all the help and in fact was looking at buying a 2005-2006 Ford GT (as it looks like a Gt40) and was asking how could I modify that engine to produce 700hp, and fix up the suspension to not have all that body roll it has, so its more like an enzo ferrari where it corners square without lean or losing grip from front tires etc under acceleration. (this u will find in my first 2-3 posts)

It was then suggested by people here "Have you considered a GT40 replica? it will give u the look u want, since the GT u wanted cause it looked like a GT40, and it will be alot lighter than a GT and cost u less to have that engine/handling etc that I wanted to modify a 2005 GT for.

After some discussing about what a replica/kitt car etc is, it all started making more sense to me why a Replica.

So the idea of Replica is so i dont pay $$$ for a GT to modify for more $$$ to still have the heavy weight problem and much larger size it is. With replica I will have my own ideas/personalized car for less $, and its unique as its built how I wanted in the first place ground up. So thats kinda nice... my OWN car rather than ruining an original car to make it MY OWN CAR costing 3 times more!

So talking about original parts etc, isnt the idea I was after given the above.

Tornado said they do CF bodies for around 12 000 pounds more than the GRP (glass reinforced plastic) body they do. The GRP weighs 150lbs for body, Carbon Fibre wont be much lighter, perhaps 10-20lbs tops. But will cost additional $20,000AU. However, since I want a Hyper Car (Enzo, Pagani Zonda, Koenigsegg) in a GT40 body... then the Carbon FIbre is a must, not for weight saving/strength gain, but thats because it is what it is. It is CF.

Ian, you mention RCR,

Will see what RCR do.

I went on there website, and noticed that the Fast n furious 5 Ford GT (i thought was GT) that I totaly loved and said id give up my muscle car for that... was actualy an RCR GT40... that was enough for me to email them. Indy racing experience etc...

Perhaps Tornado do good body/chasis but RCR sound according to there website to be in the 'race scene' and perhaps would do a better suspension setup/shocks etc to achieve what I want...

Emailed them, we will see what happens. Thanks guys!

O yeah, Tornado said Southern GT dont actualy do carbonfibre bodies. Tornado have in house tools to build a CF 1.
 
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Tornado can do a lightweight body wich is thinner it says on their website.
But wait, maybe those guys also have something for you...
Bailey GT40
Bailey GT40

they also do a GT1 GT40...especially to race.

Bailey GT1

_IGP0933.JPG


_IGP0950.JPG


always interesting to see what others have and do :D
RCR is ofcorse very nice too.
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Thanks Ian, When I spoke to Tornado I asked if they do a CF body and then said, if not would they be getting one from Southern GT and then attaching it to there own CF Monocoque Chasis.

In reply to that I got Southern GT dont do Carbon Fibre bodies, may offer rear clip and front, but not roof, doors etc... while tornado can inhouse do all that and they wont take bodies of anyone cause they believe there quality is 100% and thus no compromise by getting it off someone else.

Sounds like by that, that RCR would also be a 'compromise' in quality.

I duno, like i learnt in my 28 years of living, no company will say they are bad or worse than someone else. Remember when I read reviews on a Brian May Vox amp "best around beautiful fat sound etc etc"

Went and tested one out with my guitar... never heard anything as pathetic in my life. Thats when i learnt "nobody will say something bad about themself"

If Im to ask RCR im sure they would say "we dont take bodies from tornado etc because we dont compromise our quality"

Hey, thats pretty much what I got from Superformance aswell.

So I guess nobody is compromising quality as all "THREE" are number "ONE"... errr lol.

Nice pictures... that looks stunning... reminds me of a 2005 GT for some reason at the back...

Definately like the 2 lights for headlights, t hats a 2005GT thing aswell rather than the rectangle 1, thats kinda what I wanted to do with the GT40.

Interesting to read what they say considering what I just said about 'nobody says bad' about themself

"The Bailey GT40 has evolved over 9 years of continuous development into what is
now arguably the best racing recreation of the original Ford GT 40 ever built."

Guess they're better than tornado and RCR, but hang on... when i log on RCR website RCR is the best... no wait, Tornado is... nah actually Superformance is... or was it Bailey GT40...

MY HEADS SPINNING

Look you guys have cars from all over, i dont wanna get caught up in company politics.. quality of external build... they are all equal?

Given what Im trying to achieve, who would probbably be the best at achieving that? (serious suspension, 1000 dollar race shocks and so forth).
 
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Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
As to carbon fiber on a Superformance, not from the factory.

I was in Indianapolis yesterday at one of the leading CF shops in the country that does work for the major race teams (IRL, funny car, top fuel and sports car) and the owner is keen to do front and rear clips and doors for the GT40 in Carbon. I have one customer currently interested so it may be possible. As for a CF tub, no way from Superformance. In fact the owner of the CF business questioned why anyone would do a tub that way and if so, why they would do flat panel CF as opposed to bagged and autoclaved system. Of course the tooling and cost is the reason. Using carbon fiber like sheet aluminum is not the best use of it and does not take advantage of the structural benefits CF can provide.

After watching the automated mat cutter and seeing the the work they do I am a fan of CF but not for a GT40 tub.

I now have a carbon fiber money clip that was a gift to me.......now if I just had some folding to put in it...............................
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
After watching the automated mat cutter and seeing the the work they do I am a fan of CF but not for a GT40 tub.

Rick, would you mind expanding on this statement?

I ask b/c I know there is interest in steel spyders, but no source. IMHO a CF spyder section could offer significant safety improvements over fiberglass....it seems that it could also offer significant improvements to side intrusion protection if used in the tub, particularly in the area of the fuel cells.

While I don't own a GT40 yet, if that day ever comes I want to feel safe in case of a rollover, or if I get T-boned on the street. A roll cage, which takes up valuable space and appears intrusive in the interior, seems to be the only option at this time, and that is an EXPENSIVE option.

I guess my question is two-fold....COULD CF be used for these purposes (I know it is difficult to form on compound curves), and could the increase in price for using CF offer a dollar-for-dollar offset to the cost of the roll-bar option, which I now see as a necessary safety issue, or would the cost be prohibitive?

TIA, Rick!

Cheers from Doug!!
 
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Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Rick, would you mind expanding on this statement?

I ask b/c I know there is interest in steel spyders, but no source. IMHO a CF spyder section could offer significant safety improvements over fiberglass....it seems that it could also offer significant improvements to side intrusion protection if used in the tub, particularly in the area of the fuel cells. CF is not difficult to form on compound curves when done with the right process-bagging and autoclave, not a DIY project!

While I don't own a GT40 yet, if that day ever comes I want to feel safe in case of a rollover, or if I get T-boned on the street. A roll cage, which takes up valuable space and appears intrusive in the interior, seems to be the only option at this time, and that is an EXPENSIVE option.

I guess my question is two-fold....COULD CF be used for these purposes (I know it is difficult to form on compound curves), and could the increase in price for using CF offer a dollar-for-dollar offset to the cost of the roll-bar option, which I now see as a necessary safety issue, or would the cost be prohibitive?

TIA, Rick!

Cheers from Doug!!

For the spider? Great, good use. Makes sense as ot is complex moulded shape and would have great strength to weight ratio. Hoever the CF spider would negate the need for a roll cage if you think a cage is needed.

To build a tub out of flat sheet CF, not the best use of the properties of CF. The curves and bends in the tub give great strength that a flat sheet CF with bonded and doubled seams would not have. I was told that best use is in compound curves where the lightness and strength are used to maximum advantage.

And as to the Gulf MK Is having carbon panels, only the rear add-ons for the wide base flares were carbon as I understand.
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Not trying to be of disrespect to the intended companies that Emailed me, but Im just throwing it on here to get some feedback from you guys as whats sales ploy and whats really what as I am new to this and in the end, its my pocket that matters. Since you guys have GT40s and have been around this for years and years you definatelly can steer me in the right direction.

Tornado have emailed me after few times as thus

George

Southern GT do not make any bodies. They do not have any tools or molds.

We have our own moulding shop with all of the required molds and tooling. We do not get our bodies from anyone else as we only accept the very best quality.

We can make you a Carbon bodyshell if you are willing to pay the extra money but it will not be cheap.

I see you asking about the finish on our cars on GT40s.com. Our cars are exactly the same as original and we have supplied body parts to be used on original cars. Our fit and finish is the best you can get. We have been doing this for over 20 years now.
We started building GT40s in 1989 and are the worlds longest established manufacturer by a long long time


So basicaly thats telling me they are the best, fit and finish is better than anyone out there can or is doing (putting Tornado in position 1 terms of quality)


RCR replied as thus

George,

we are totally capable of manufaturing a Carbon body.....the wieght difference is not that great but the price certianly is.

We can also manufacture a carbon chassis...we already use carbon honeycomb in another model but a complete carbon honeycomb chassis is not on the cards and even with a large wad of cash I would not do it.
I come from a racing background at the professional level and I know the budgets it takes to maintin a carbon chassis car...

More modern appearance...easy done.

Big HP...no problem..we have multiple cars running high 600's and our chassis is totally capable of much more...now packaging all of that in a 1960;s sized GT40 body is another matter...

RCR makes a lot of professional race car components and as such we get to be aorund some cool "real" race cars....again the money required to run such big power and maintain is is quite staggering...ebevn building my rac e SL-C was not inexpensive ...and that been breaking lap records and on pole every time its been on track this season...against some very healthy modern V8/V10 and turbo competiton...not some vintage parade laps.


We use Penske 8760 shocks on our race only cars...these are worth their money in gold...but a set minus springs will cost around 7,000...I would recommend a set of n8300 shocks. for around 3500 if you want good performance on a tighter budget.

Our standard suspension package contains chromoly rod ends as standard and also 6 and 4 piston brake calipers...coming down from 200 plus mph will require good cooling , which in turn creates more drag so you will need more power to go 200...this will creat more engine bay heat so you will need more venting than standard which create more drag so you will need more power....etc etc etc etc

Its a never ending circle ....be prepared to drop BIG coin to have one car do all the things you want it to do....

Regardless we can manufacture anything one off in house if required...full clay model facilty and CNC machines ...all in house.


So whats what...

 

Mike Pass

Supporter
Hi George,
Southern GT GRP bodies are made by Lee Dawson who used to work for GTD. His bodies are very well made and fit well. I assisted Martin in the fitting of his body. (see Southern GT No8 build thread). They currently have a CF rear clip which is very light and a lot stiffer than the GRP version. I have seen and lifted one of these CF rear clips and they are excellent but not cheap. They are made for Southern GT by a local CF guy as there are lots workshops in the area as it a big marine area with lots of GRP boatbuilders. Glen Mason has one on his Southern GT.
Cheers
Mike
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
So whats what...

I don't see anything in either e-mail that is "sales ploy" or dishonest in any way. Both companies are well-regarded and neither is going to take you for a ride.

You are not going to be able to make rational decisions about this based on e-mails and forum posts. You need to decide what you want and then talk to the vendors directly at their facilities to decide if each is capable of delivering it and whether you have the funds to pay for it.
 
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You are not going to be able to make rational decisions about this based on e-mails and forum posts. You need to decide what you want and then talk to the vendors directly at their facilities to decide if each is capable of delivering it and whether you have the funds to pay for it.

+1. Completely agree.
 
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