Superlite GTA

[Scott Davis]

My experience is only through helping my family build cars none were my own personal car and weren't for SCCA or NASA but I prefer that over NHRA. No experience building a kit car for racing purposes either which I understand may be different than modifying a production car for race purposes and harder to get certain class approval. But yes I have the GCR and am aware of the fuel/fire/switch etc requirements. I realize it's more than a sticky tire thing. I don't think Solo ,level 1/2 club trials have all the same requirements.

I wasn't exactly trying to build something "competitive", just fun. I suppose when we see more of the APEX we'll know what would need to be changed and what wouldn't. Being that you already know however, sounds like it's not a suggested path with this car and I'll take your advise since you obviously have more experience than I do.

I definitely want it to be a street car first, potential track car second. And I definitely want to build it myself. Buying a new home has limited my budget so as long as I can get my feet wet I'll be happy. Bigger things will come and I'm sure five year's from now there will be something even better and people will be trading up their SLC and GT-R anyway. In fact I'm sure I can sell a 40th birthday/midlife crisis car purchase. lol.

 

[Merim]

The G96/01 is very affordable...can be bought for 2k or less and will be fine up to 450hp...ALL the Need for speed cars we built were beaten hard and not one broke a transaxle...with 430hp LS3's.

They are out there...but you cant have all the bells and whistles, lsd, oil pump and major power capability for low $$$....

Griffin is still alive , its going to come in at $9-10k.

didn't realize the g96s could be had this cheap. even without the bells and whistles. I haven't seen these sub 2k boxes ever show up in ebay. i must be looking in the wrong places. any good tips where to start looking for these?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

When Steven started looking , he found two on Ebay within a few minutes...just have to keep an eye open for good deals.
They are readily available for the $3k mark from multiple Porsche breakers

 

[TimB]

didn't realize the g96s could be had this cheap. even without the bells and whistles. I haven't seen these sub 2k boxes ever show up in ebay. i must be looking in the wrong places. any good tips where to start looking for these?

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market it's a nationwide search engine for salvage yards. i just did a quick search on 1999 911 trans and came up with over 20 sub $3k boxes

 

[Merim]

thanks gents, had heard of car-part before, never actually bought anything that way.

edit: see it on ebay too. I was searching for g50 for a long time. Searching for 99-01 has opened the flood gates. here's an example...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-01-PORSC...D-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-50K-MILES-/121618134127

 

[stevenml]

I was about to post a G96 box for sale for $2k plus shipping. I just got it a few weeks ago and was going to use it for my build until I found a G50/52 box with LSD.

The G50/52 should be here any day now.

I am still debating where to get my LS3 from. Jegs has a 376/525hp for $7500

Thats 490 torque. Not forged internals though.

Still not a bad deal

 

[Roger]

Whilst the transaxle itself may not cost too much, you'll also need to modify it to be able to run inverted, get a suitable clutch/flywheel assembly and adapter plate. You might or might not get away without a rebuild of the gearbox.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

The trans only requires very minimum mods to be inverted.
Swap the oil fill to a drain and the drain to a breather/fill.

The clutch/adapter is obviously still needed and readily available from Gbox.

 

[TimB]

thanks gents, had heard of car-part before, never actually bought anything that way.

To date i have bought 5 motors and 2 transmission on car-part only one trans had to be returned due to damage in transit no hassles at all.

 

[Scott Davis]

The G50/52 should be here any day now.

I am still debating where to get my LS3 from. Jegs has a 376/525hp for $7500

Mind sharing or pm'ing where/how much the G50 was?

Is your debate whether to go with a built LS3 and who to buy from or who to buy the crate GMPP? From what I've seen the authorized dealer prices don't vary greatly - $7500 with free shipping is about the lowest I've seen recently. What's interesting is there's a 515 vs 525 that part number slightly cheaper...same cam.

Speaking of ASA cam, I realize it's a somewhat proven cam, then again it was designed 15 years ago and really was purpose built (circle). If you look at spec cam prices they run $400 almost across the board (even the asa). The price increase on this crate just for this cam is like 1300. You could install cam yourself change the stock trunion (suggested) and springs for the same or less. Just food for thought.

 

[Scott Davis]

All same part numbers of components...$400 cheaper. Not sure of the difference.

LS376/515 HP Crate Engine 19301359

LS376/525HP Crate Engine 19301360

edit: Also unconfirmed

"GM uses a different rating system for the 376-525 than the LS3. Being as the LS3 is in production and is used in factory cars, they rate it with all the acc., cats, and exhaust. Its a true NET HP on the LS3. The 376-525 is rated without acc and has no cats. The cam (ASA) in the 515 is easily worth 45-50 HP over a stock LS3, if you ran them both on the same dyno.
On dynos with no acc and with long tube headers/free exhaust and electric water pump ( just like about everyone that sells crate engines) the 515 makes around 540ish and the LS3, stock with long tubes ,can be anywhere from 475 to 495HP. All GM crate engines are NET rated, if they are still used in production cars , or was run in a production car and haven't been changed, like the LS version of the LS6 or LS1. The LS2, LS3, LS7, LSA are all net with all the junk that will be bolted to it in a car. The ZZ family, LS376/480, LS376/515, LS 376/525, LSX 376, LSX 454, and all the big block and SBCs that were never a production car engine are rated without acc or restrictive exhaust. Its all just a way to keep the piece with people that buy a new car with one of the net rated engines. More than a few under educated buyers will want to know why their engine only makes 422 HP, but the same engine in crate form makes 470. Its also a good way to sell their dedicated crate engines by giving the highest way of HP rating.""

 

[Roger]

The clutch/adapter is obviously still needed and readily available from Gbox.

The LSx + G50 is a very well trodden route, so should be relatively easy to find, and cheap, for what it is. It's a step up from a VW engine and transaxle, in many ways.

It'll certainly be interesting to see an Apex with 500+hp.

 

[Scott Davis]

...the cheaper part number is carbureted. They used the same pic on the other site and don't list the intake part number.

 

[stevenml]

The v8's discussed with harness is under $9k. That's just under $9k for 500+ hp.

From the research I have done, I am unable to find a daily driver 4 or 6 cylinder motor with turbo with 500+ hp in the similar price range with the same level of dependency.

 

[Merim]

Whilst the transaxle itself may not cost too much, you'll also need to modify it to be able to run inverted, get a suitable clutch/flywheel assembly and adapter plate. You might or might not get away without a rebuild of the gearbox.

trans 2k
kennedy adapter 2k
clutch/flywheel ?

seems like no good way to get this done cost effectively without spending 5k and gambling on a used trans. the mendeola seems more interesting as it is 9500 and takes regular chevy flywheel/clutch, etc. and get can get better gearing limited slip. surprised i'm not seeing more of those going in cars here.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

2k would include the clutch and flywheel plus adapter from KEP or Gbox.

Mendeola does not have a very large range of gear ratios for a street car.

$9500 plus another 1k for clutch flywheel starter also...at that price I don't think you get an LSD either.

Mendeola transaxles are also long and large and don't always fit into many mid-engined cars...they would not fit in to an Apex.

No free lunch in the world of transaxles. especially when you want to hold V8 torque and power.
Keep in mind that the cheap power levels today are pretty spectacular...how much power did a Testarossa have when it was new and the big boy on the block, same with the Diablo etc etc ...
Heck even the GT40's only had a little over 400hp in most cases back when they were doing 200mph plus at Le Mans

 

[Scott Davis]

I'll be happy to spend 5k and get a reliable transaxle with limited slip and a clutch that will hold 450 horsepower. sucks looking. I'm more and more considering the 930 4 speed. Decent gearing.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Sorry to say but I don't think you will find a trans with LSD and known good for $5k, let alone with a clutch

 

[Scott Davis]

Ah I See...I thought you had mentioned that Steve had seen several transmissions for $3k (prob less lsd, or maybe not "good"...did these need rebuild?). That plus the $2k adapter/clutch is where I got to the $5k.

I had been expecting $7500 (and not for a 50.50/52 more like the 50/02) which is why I said I would be happy at $5k. Not sure where the 930 stands vs the 50/02 or G96's as far as strength. Can anyone rank those 3 (strength alone - not necessarily gearing)?

Also...how essential is the LSD on the street? most SLC's running them?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

My comment was aimed at a 930 with LSD and clutch for 5k as that was your last comment.

Porsche builds lots of cars/transaxles without LSD and personally I feel that on the street its not a necessity

The G96/01 normally comes without LSD.