Terrorism comes to Australia .

[Jeff Young]

Too bad he was not armed.

I know, then a gun fight could have eruptd in the cafe and even more people could have died.

Pete, I'm sorry this has happened in Australia, and am glad that the police resolved this situation, although sad of course that two hostages died.

Peace to your country in the future and may we all have the wisdom to try and prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

 

[Al Jones]

I know, then a gun fight could have eruptd in the cafe and even more people could have died.=QUOTE]

But Jeff, isn't that the way it actually ended? Was there another way this was going to end?
Time to stop worrying about offending people who espouse the doctrine of violently eliminating anyone else in the world except those of their own religion. My condolences to the victims and their families. In a sad sort of way Australia is now on board.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

And I'm not going to ride with the c##ts.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I know, then a gun fight could have eruptd in the cafe and even more people could have died.

Pete, I'm sorry this has happened in Australia, and am glad that the police resolved this situation, although sad of course that two hostages died.

Peace to your country in the future and may we all have the wisdom to try and prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

Well that is how it did end, if Tori the store manager who got shot trying to wrestle the gun from the Islamic terrorist was armed maybe only one person the perp would have got shot.
Sorry Jeff I know you are well intentioned but today's events prove to me that banning guns only helps the bad guys.

 

[Jeff Young]

I know, then a gun fight could have eruptd in the cafe and even more people could have died.=QUOTE]

But Jeff, isn't that the way it actually ended? Was there another way this was going to end?
Time to stop worrying about offending people who espouse the doctrine of violently eliminating anyone else in the world except those of their own religion. My condolences to the victims and their families. In a sad sort of way Australia is now on board.

It ended in a gunfight initiated by trained police.

It saddens me, and scares me, that the immediate American reaction to these situations is that MORE guns would solve the problem and that all of us has some sort of heman super hero just waiting to bust out in situations like this, armed with latest weaponry. That's bullshit. Sorry, it just is.

It is far more likely that armed citizenry makes these situations worse, and that more people get killed -- innocent bystanders, hostages, whoever -- as heman superhero tries to gun down the terrorist.

This guy was wrong. It was right for the police to take him out. It is wrong for us to speculate that situation would have magically been solved by an armed citizen when it is just as likely, if no tmore likely given that gun ownership statistically means you have a higher chance of killing yourself, or your kid or your wife than if you weren't armed, that the situation would have ended up far worse than it did.

I didn't start this crap in this thread so don't claim I did. The shit start with Americans -- like they always do -- claiming this situation would have never happened "if only there had been more guns."

Bullshit.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't alter the fact that when a country bans guns , the only citizens that are armed are those that disregard the law. It also means of course that a disarmed citizenry is vulnerable to attack from a corrupt government or forces outside our country. Indonesia springs to mind a mostly Muslim country, with a much larger army than us.

 

[Pat]

Pete, out of curiosity, has there been any media scrutiny of the judge that let that hairball out on bail?

Your post was incredible. Given the 40 sexual assaults, the convictions on the hate mail to the relatives to deceased KIAs and the alleged participation in the murder of his wife, how on earth was that guy even walking around?

 

[Jeff Young]

Amen to that -- something we can all agree on. It certainly looks like this guy should never have been out on the streets.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Pete, I am very sorry for all of you folks in Oz. The entire thing is horrible. As to the history of the perpetrator, he should have been locked up for life long ago.

 

[David Morton]

Too much P.C. bullshit going down in Australia and here in the UK as well. Too much P.C. leniency. Too many scared P.C. Judges and scared P.C. Magistrates and not so bright Policemen.
Unfortunately, here in the UK, we have witnessed the total inadequacy of a SOA Commander (female ) called Cressida Dick and the loss of life her total stupidity caused. She got away with it as well. I cannot comment on the U.S.A. as I have little idea or knowledge about citizens carrying small arms though I have a friend in Houston and both he and his wife are continuously armed. ................
Great 'none PC' hot tub parties though.

 

[Larry L.]

It is wrong for us to speculate that situation would have magically been solved by an armed citizen when it is just as likely, if no tmore likely given that gun ownership statistically means you have a higher chance of killing yourself, or your kid or your wife than if you weren't armed, that the situation would have ended up far worse than it did.

You mean "it is wrong for us to speculate"...but, it's obviously okay if you do.

This incident has again illustrated the 'inconvenient truth' that the only effective defense against a criminal/loon with a gun is a 'good guy' with another gun.

We all know what happens when "the other gun" isn't there, don't we. It's NOT "speculation". We know. We've seen it at Virgina Tech, Columbine, Sandy Hook, the Colorado movie theater, the D.C. Naval Yard, and on and on...and many times (as in the above examples) the "other gun" isn't there by law ("gun-FREE zones"). What's THEE PRIME LOCATION loons almost always choose for their rampages? Right - gun-free zones. Why? Because they know the odds are almost 100% that there will be no armed, law-abiding individual(s) there to oppose them. They want unarmed fish in a barrel.

It's just not logical to believe an unarmed individual (or group of individuals) has a better chance of surviving/walking away from an encounter with an ARMED loon/crook hell-bent on killing people than does someone who IS armed. It just isn't.

In the Aust. situation, there were 30 or so people confronted by ONE loon with a gun. There's noooooooo waaaaaaaay the loon could have kept his eyes on EVERY ONE of these 30 people at the same time. No way. Therefore, more than likely, had anyone in that group also been armed and had the spine/shooting skill to do so, he could have dropped the perp before he knew what hit him.

With regard to that last point; none of the individuals I know who 'carry' consider their sidearm just a 'macho' fashion statement/accessory and therefore have neither the skill or mindset to use it if necessary. None.

 

[Jack]

IMHO, if you are "carrying", you accept the responsibility of your actions and match the required skill sets needed. This requires frequent perfect practice, a serious mindset and the means to accomplish all of this. I said "perfect practice" as guided instruction by a professional. One may practice everyday, but it likely will not add the skills needed.

In my county 32% of the population have concealed carry licenses. There are approximately 90 recognised small arms instructors in the area and many indoor and outdoor practice ranges. We do take this seriously.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

There are ways to remove a gun from its owner. Not terrible difficult, depending on the gun or positioning, but practice helps. Unfortunately, 99% of folks walking around haven't been exposed to that kind of training.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Pete, out of curiosity, has there been any media scrutiny of the judge that let that hairball out on bail?

Your post was incredible. Given the 40 sexual assaults, the convictions on the hate mail to the relatives to deceased KIAs and the alleged participation in the murder of his wife, how on earth was that guy even walking around?

That is a good question Pat. One I can answer briefly. Years of a left wing Government which appointed left wing hand wringing Judges and Political correctness. The bloke should never have been on bail and I hope the Judge that released him has trouble sleeping for the rest of his days. Although I doubt he will.

 

[Jack]

Very true Ox, Krav Maga is your friend.

 

[Larry L.]

There are ways to remove a gun from its owner...unfortunately, 99% of folks walking around haven't been exposed to that kind of training.[/

Not from a distance greater than +/- 10 feet...and certainly NOT when a perp is already firing. Regardless, the "Bruce Lee" solution is only open to those who are physically able to employ it...and even then a gun would likely prove to be a more effective counter measure 99% of the time...especially when dealing with mutiple perps.

 

[Keith]

Not sure what you mean by false flag Keith, and I never bet on something I don't understand.
The hostage situation is real though.

I was alluding to him being (Iranian) therefore Shia and displaying a Saudi flag made out to look like an IS banner...

Later discovered he had "converted" to Sunni, but it would not have saved him from the IS butchers..

 

[Keith]

How do we feel about the situation in Pakistan?

 

[Larry L.]

'No happier at at all...to say the least.

(EDIT: I'm assuming you're referring to the Taliban attack on the Pakistan school that left 141 people dead...132 of which were kids?)

 

[Doug S.]

How do we feel about the situation in Pakistan?

Not a surprise...the mid-easterners have been killing each other for milleniums, no reason to expect they will stop now. The only issue is that they have become more depraved in their choice of target...WTF is up with going after kids?

These guys ought to have to be buried in a casket into which pig entrails have been placed...naaaah, even that's too good for them!

Doug