Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I think Mr Mortons solution is appropriate for these arseholes.
Terrorism comes to Australia .
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Sit down, Doug. Seriously. Sit down.
Are you seated?
Okay, then.........................YOU AND I COMPLETELY AGREE ON THIS.
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
That's exactly the one!
But, again, one has to be IN PHYSICIAL CONTACT with the perp to use that...AND one has to be physically able to engage a perp in that way...
'Still isn't effective/won't work from 10 feet away or more...even for a Krav Maga e-x-p-e-r-t...ESPECIALLY against multiple a-r-m-e-d opponents. Besides, it takes y-e-a-r-s for one to 'master'/get proficient in doing stuff like that in other than controlled, classroom situations.
'Just sayin'...
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I'd much rather shoot the perp if possible. Disarming anyone is not anything but a last ditch effort. It really takes a few months to become somewhat proficient in KM though. To master it can take a year if you're in excellent condition and practice at least three times per week. Most of it is based on instinctive movements.
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Damned RIGHT!
Howard Jones
Supporter
So if one person (who could hit a man sized target from 20 feet) had a gun and kept it a secret until the perp turned his back, remembering that there were something like 30 people in the room at the time, and just shot the asshole 4 or 5 times in the middle of his back...........THATS a gunfight?.............not even close. Just another dead badguy.
Think people think. There is no drought that I could have and would have done just that given the situation. And what is the downside? He takes my gun away and now he has two guns. How's that worse? The cops would have still broke in and killed him anyway.
Think people think. There is no drought that I could have and would have done just that given the situation. And what is the downside? He takes my gun away and now he has two guns. How's that worse? The cops would have still broke in and killed him anyway.
I feel the Pakistan atrocity is a kind of turning point in people's reaction to Islamic fundamentalist terrorism and it ably illustrates what we are up against (if there was any doubt). As a result could we expect to see more vociferous and physical action against fundamentalism by 'moderate' Islam? One would hope so.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Keith,
Nothing will happen. They are so scared of Islamic State/ Taliban that Pakistan will fall as will Syria and soon Turkey and eventually Iraq. I think the Saudi's must be quaking in their sandals because in so many ways they are responsible for the funding everything including the Trade Towers attrocity in New York.
Unless something MAJOR is done to stop the spread of Islam, the Sydney attrocity and the Peshawar School killings will be as of nothing in their curriculum vitaes.
Be in no doubt, another beheading on the streets of the capitals in the west will be forthcoming. There are so many young men who are still here and on the streets where you live as well and they have been turned to Jihad. This small town of High Wycombe has yielded two who are either dead or imprisoned.
I personally hope they rot in hell because of the total inconvenience they have caused in both my life and my childrens lives. We all have been involved in airports and the inconvenience of having to virtually strip and still be scanned by an Asian of the Muslim brotherhood, to be bossed around by an Asian Junior on the xray system (who has virtually no command of the English language and threatens you by pointing at the notice about "being abusive " to her (it seems she can be abusive to me without penalty ) insisting I switch on my laptop, and then the Border Control Asians, all dressed in black, who delight in slow scanning your passports unless you are of their persuasion when you will be nodded through without even looking. I can go on and on , but I'm a white male with a few bits of steel and screws holding my aging bones together along with Stainless ceramic joints and carryin a Novomix pen with Needles because I have been diagnosed as diabetic - all of which set off every scanner in the world (except in France - probably because the power isn't switched on)
and because of it, the Asian airport staff delight in making your life hell. Ask my wife- her hand bag was scanned six times in one session while Asian staff were nodded through with their bags. WTF.
Clearly the answer is to become a Muslim. Bollocks to that.
Nothing will happen. They are so scared of Islamic State/ Taliban that Pakistan will fall as will Syria and soon Turkey and eventually Iraq. I think the Saudi's must be quaking in their sandals because in so many ways they are responsible for the funding everything including the Trade Towers attrocity in New York.
Unless something MAJOR is done to stop the spread of Islam, the Sydney attrocity and the Peshawar School killings will be as of nothing in their curriculum vitaes.
Be in no doubt, another beheading on the streets of the capitals in the west will be forthcoming. There are so many young men who are still here and on the streets where you live as well and they have been turned to Jihad. This small town of High Wycombe has yielded two who are either dead or imprisoned.
I personally hope they rot in hell because of the total inconvenience they have caused in both my life and my childrens lives. We all have been involved in airports and the inconvenience of having to virtually strip and still be scanned by an Asian of the Muslim brotherhood, to be bossed around by an Asian Junior on the xray system (who has virtually no command of the English language and threatens you by pointing at the notice about "being abusive " to her (it seems she can be abusive to me without penalty ) insisting I switch on my laptop, and then the Border Control Asians, all dressed in black, who delight in slow scanning your passports unless you are of their persuasion when you will be nodded through without even looking. I can go on and on , but I'm a white male with a few bits of steel and screws holding my aging bones together along with Stainless ceramic joints and carryin a Novomix pen with Needles because I have been diagnosed as diabetic - all of which set off every scanner in the world (except in France - probably because the power isn't switched on)
and because of it, the Asian airport staff delight in making your life hell. Ask my wife- her hand bag was scanned six times in one session while Asian staff were nodded through with their bags. WTF.
Clearly the answer is to become a Muslim. Bollocks to that.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
All complete and total speculation. Untrained -- and that is what you guys all are doing Rambo wet dream fantasies aside -- people with guns opening fire in a crowded cafe is not teh solution to this no matter what you think. But carry on with your fantasies.
Oh yeah, this nutjob had his gun permit, and his gun legally:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/world/asia/australia-sydney-hostage-situation/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
So this was actually a "good guy" with a gun. Making all the hand wringing about liberals or gun laws being responsible for this complete and utter bullshit.
What this was was a failure of the system to keep a gun LEGALLY out of a criminal, insane person's hands.
Pat
Supporter
Thanks for the response Pete. I don't know how the judiciary is selected in OZ or if they have reelections but it seems to me there is some need for sanity over the political correctness. Apparently the Sidney coffee shop jihadist wasn't even on a terror watch list. One would think the letters to the KIA families alone would raise his profile much less the charges related to his wife's murder. The public nature of the Sidney gunman's changing from Shiism to Sunni Islam, a move some would consider apostasy, also should have been a red flag as this self proclaimed cleric clearly was heading in a radical direction.
I also read that in 2005 in Sidney police were dispatched to arrest a suspect on terror charges who fired a weapon, hitting one of the officers in the hand. According the article, the suspect "had with him … two loaded guns in connection with the preparation for a terrorist act" and was found to possess jihadist propaganda, weapons, acids, and instructions for explosives.
He later pled guilty to the terrorism charges but was supported by the judge in the confrontation which wounded the officer because "of the the climate of anti-Muslim feeling in the community at the time, he believed that he might be harmed by the police". As a result, he escaped charges related to shooting the officer and was only convicted of firing a gun in a public place and using an unauthorized firearm. Incredible...
This also begs the question as to the effectiveness of the restrictive gun laws in Australia. As I wrote earlier, it's incredible that the murdering subhuman hairball in the coffee shop had bail and was on the street. But it's positively amazing that he's able to acquire a gun.
Is there any indication that there is public sentiment for a change in either the judiciary or the gun laws?
No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au
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"Fantasies". "Rambo wet dreams". Really.
Customer shoots, kills robbery suspect in restaurant - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina |
Florida Man, 71, Shoots at Alleged Robbers at Internet Cafe - ABC News
Restaurant employee shoots armed would-be robbers | UTSanDiego.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/nyregion/14shoot.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
War veteran shoots and kills alleged game store robber | News - Home
...but, let none of the above realities dissuade you from continuing to cling to - and argue on behalf of - your actual "fantasies" about using guns to defend one's self in public places or where ever, Sir. After all, being a lawyer, you should know 'tis your right to "believe" anything you want...regardless of actual reality.
Sure. There are risks inherent in someone using a gun in self defense anywhere at anytime. But, there are inherent risks in NOT doing so as well...risks you apparently refuse to acknowledge.
There are also risks inherent in taking a bath or crossing a street. But, we do both all the time.
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Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Conceivably, taking the opportunity to put down the perp (internal to the situation) may result in SWAT deciding it was time to go in and eliminate ANY armed threat (including the guy that saved the day). So caution and a well thought out post-shot action would need to be considered.
Agreed...like immediately holstering one's sidearm for instance (once you've determined - as best you can - that there are no 'accomplices' in the place...but, certainly before LEO's entered the premises regardless).
I say combine the ideas of Howard and Mr. Morton...the answer has to be that we as a world need to make it impossible for any country to harbor terrorists or support their actions. It it takes the notice Howard proposes to governments where these terrorists are harbored, so be it. If they continue, we must as a coalition declare war on those countries whose governments chose to ignore the imminent actions to be taken against them, and once that has been done we must act in a decisive manner, which is why I like David's suggestion that we drop a bucket of light on the location of the country's leadership, who have chosen to ignore our warning, and turn the place into glass. It would only take one or two of those actions for a whole lot of other countries to get the idea.
It worked to end WWII, and although I think use of nuclear weapons is a very desperate measure, perhaps we ought to admit that these are desperate times and act accordingly.
Cheers!
Doug
I have only been to Sydney once. It was this past January. I walked all over the CBD, parks, main library, across the bridge, sailing on the bay, matter of fact walked right by this same cafe. Beautiful city, everyone out having a great time enjoying the summer. Totally impressed how on what seemed like every street there was some sort of event, Korean dance, Muslim womens conference, Chinese dragons and fire works, street artist, music, a ballet in the park. Really truly impressive, I cannot say I have ever seen that much diversity and willingness to share each individual culture on a city wide basis at such a grass roots level.
I left thinking that I had a new favorite city in the world. Truly a shame all that beauty had to end up stained by this ugly event.
I well know that Sydney is having trouble with violence which seems more each day, but "for one brief shining moment..."
I left thinking that I had a new favorite city in the world. Truly a shame all that beauty had to end up stained by this ugly event.
I well know that Sydney is having trouble with violence which seems more each day, but "for one brief shining moment..."
OK so would there be a difference between an armed citizen dealing with a terrorist situation as against criminals? Would there be a different mindset between the two which might influence any decision an armed citizen might take?
Would an armed citizen be aware of any such differences?
Could any lack of awareness or specific training in a terrorist situation, increase the threat?
Seeing as we are all being hypothetical, a similar response is expected.
I am trying to get my head around an armed citizen dealing with a hostage situation with his personal sidearm. I am thinking that perhaps, the very presence of a CW might increase the risks, but I am no expert. Like many people here, I was trained to shoot at those persons clearly identified as "the enemy" in non civilian situations, although the recipients of a volley or two might well have been in mufti at the time!
It seems that we have arrived at this point of time by virtue of a great deal of weakness, arrogance and naivety.
Would an armed citizen be aware of any such differences?
Could any lack of awareness or specific training in a terrorist situation, increase the threat?
Seeing as we are all being hypothetical, a similar response is expected.
I am trying to get my head around an armed citizen dealing with a hostage situation with his personal sidearm. I am thinking that perhaps, the very presence of a CW might increase the risks, but I am no expert. Like many people here, I was trained to shoot at those persons clearly identified as "the enemy" in non civilian situations, although the recipients of a volley or two might well have been in mufti at the time!
It seems that we have arrived at this point of time by virtue of a great deal of weakness, arrogance and naivety.
