Quite right Al! I can't agree with you more. I don't feel that was off topic at all, they are very much related (at least in this context, in my mind!)
We speak English here...
- Thread starter WYLD
- Start date
The bill just "posted", sorry about that!
Fine about that when you talk about indians, but not all Mexicans or people from Latin American countries are of native descend "indians". Many are of pure Spaniard or other European descend even after hundreds of years since migration.
I agree that as the country stands today everyone migrating or living in the United States should learn the language and that English should stay as the official language.
I also stand behind enforcing the laws against all illegals.
Get ready for more of that. Enforcing against illegals is one thing but discriminating against legal people is another.
There's another aspect to this we may not have covered yet..... While a single (English) language is efficient and provides a common cultural bond, many businesses cater to other demographic groups as a means to increase sales. Not surprisingly, with such a large portion of the US population of hispanic descent, "press 1" is as much about selling more product as anything else.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
You got it Cliff, always follow the money. BTW how many of you have an illegal gardener, housekeeper or cook?
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Hi Pete,
I often resemble all three. At least thats how I feel......
I often resemble all three. At least thats how I feel......
Hold the phone didn't Spain finance our colonization? If English was the prominent language than why where are ALL OF OUR BASIC LAWS WRITTEN IN LATIN? Funny how some of you forget your history (as a proud Americans we should at least admit to the facts). The founding fathers actually had debates over which to chose (English or Spanish) for a national language) but in the end they couldn't decide as they were split down the middle so nothing was chosen. At the time they also didn't want to show any specific allegiance to any country (as we were always supposed to be a multicultural country from inception) which was also a mitigating factor. In all honesty Spanish would be a more realistic choice as the Spanish population as a whole has surpassed every other race in this country but since we seem to want to stick our heads in the sand we hold on to English as a national language (when Spanish is more dominant on a global scale). That being said it would go against what the founding fathers had dreamed of for this country if we were to nationalize any language which is why since it's inception the U.S. has never nor will we ever have a national language.
Well, that's interesting but the US could have equally have been French speaking mon ami...
Dominance of language in a region historically is down to trade not population. The map below does show a preponderance of Spanish territory, but all the main trade (and thus the money) was on the East Coast. The Spanish did have a lively export trade in gold etc but I believe we stole most of that. We were able to steal it because of our traditional investment in sea power. Nothing could move on the high seas without the consent of the Royal Navy, and they spoke English too.:laugh:
Latin is the traditional language of Law and always has been. French WAS the traditional language of diplomacy (but we stole that too - see above).
If we apply the same rules today I think we would all be speaking Chinese, except for: Finance - English, Transportation Logistics - English. Techical - English.
By the year 2000 persons of anglo saxon/Caucasian origins in the USA officially became a minority and this pattern will be repeated all over the world, however, the established language of Trade will (as it always has been since the middle ages) be English as it will be supremely hard to displace after many hundreds of years of dominance.
Note that a common "trading language" today is strictly non partisan and no longer means a dominating "National Superiority" as was the case perhaps up to WWI. It's just a way of communicating efficiently hombre...
Dominance of language in a region historically is down to trade not population. The map below does show a preponderance of Spanish territory, but all the main trade (and thus the money) was on the East Coast. The Spanish did have a lively export trade in gold etc but I believe we stole most of that. We were able to steal it because of our traditional investment in sea power. Nothing could move on the high seas without the consent of the Royal Navy, and they spoke English too.:laugh:
Latin is the traditional language of Law and always has been. French WAS the traditional language of diplomacy (but we stole that too - see above).
If we apply the same rules today I think we would all be speaking Chinese, except for: Finance - English, Transportation Logistics - English. Techical - English.
By the year 2000 persons of anglo saxon/Caucasian origins in the USA officially became a minority and this pattern will be repeated all over the world, however, the established language of Trade will (as it always has been since the middle ages) be English as it will be supremely hard to displace after many hundreds of years of dominance.
Note that a common "trading language" today is strictly non partisan and no longer means a dominating "National Superiority" as was the case perhaps up to WWI. It's just a way of communicating efficiently hombre...
Per Wikipedia
English is the de facto national language. Although there is no official language at the federal level, some laws—such as U.S. naturalization requirements—standardize English. In 2006, about 224 million, or 80% of the population aged five years and older, spoke only English at home. Spanish, spoken by 12% of the population at home, is the second most common language and the most widely taught second language.[135][136] Some Americans advocate making English the country's official language, as it is in at least twenty-eight states.[6] Both Hawaiian and English are official languages in Hawaii by state law.[137] While neither has an official language, New Mexico has laws providing for the use of both English and Spanish, as Louisiana does for English and French.[138] Other states, such as California, mandate the publication of Spanish versions of certain government documents including court forms.[139] Several insular territories grant official recognition to their native languages, along with English: Samoan and Chamorro are recognized by American Samoa and Guam, respectively; Carolinian and Chamorro are recognized by the Northern Mariana Islands; Spanish is an official language of Puerto Rico.
Languages (2006)[135]
English (only) 224.2 million
Spanish, incl. Creole 34.0 million
Chinese 2.5 million
French, incl. Creole 2.0 million
Tagalog 1.4 million
Vietnamese 1.2 million
German 1.1 million
Korean 1.1 million
English is the de facto national language. Although there is no official language at the federal level, some laws—such as U.S. naturalization requirements—standardize English. In 2006, about 224 million, or 80% of the population aged five years and older, spoke only English at home. Spanish, spoken by 12% of the population at home, is the second most common language and the most widely taught second language.[135][136] Some Americans advocate making English the country's official language, as it is in at least twenty-eight states.[6] Both Hawaiian and English are official languages in Hawaii by state law.[137] While neither has an official language, New Mexico has laws providing for the use of both English and Spanish, as Louisiana does for English and French.[138] Other states, such as California, mandate the publication of Spanish versions of certain government documents including court forms.[139] Several insular territories grant official recognition to their native languages, along with English: Samoan and Chamorro are recognized by American Samoa and Guam, respectively; Carolinian and Chamorro are recognized by the Northern Mariana Islands; Spanish is an official language of Puerto Rico.
Languages (2006)[135]
English (only) 224.2 million
Spanish, incl. Creole 34.0 million
Chinese 2.5 million
French, incl. Creole 2.0 million
Tagalog 1.4 million
Vietnamese 1.2 million
German 1.1 million
Korean 1.1 million
Damian,
So sorry , but you are wrong. The Declaration of Independence was written in English as was the Constitution. The men who wrote these documents were educated in Latin as well as some of them were experts at Greek as well. The English version was used because that was the common language in use in the 13 colonies amoung the legal authorities at the time. In Florida and Louisiana, which joined later, there were other languages used of course.
Since that time, the English language has become the dominant language in world markets. Most of the growth is the result of a free and enterprising economy that has been an example of the free enterprise model and the "common rights" of its citizens guaranteed by those very documents mentioned above. All of this from a little backwater country in the late 1700's but where the poor and oppressed could come and with their own effort carve out a new life. It is still happening today. If one wants to be a success in this country, be capable of reading and understanding rules, regulations, laws, and be competitive in the US economy, English is required. If companies want to gear their phone messages to spanish speaking people to get their business, that's their right. However, it does not change the fact that of the over 300 million people living in this country, English is the main language in use for all commerce and legal functions. To not learn the "common" language is to be a hard-headed nitwit and to guarantee yourself that you will be an outsider. I speak French, but the only time that I use that language everyday is when I am in France. I do business with French firms and I use French lawyers and secretaries to insure that I completely understand the nuances in the contracts. But don't forget, most of the business people that I deal with in France, Italy, Spain, and South America speak English very well. That is a requirement to succeed in trading with an American partner. The Spanish-speaking immigrant "needs" to learn the "native" language if they are going to successfully integrate themselves in this country. We have a large Vietnamese population in Texas and they all speak English or they couldn't survive in business. Do they speak their native language at home? Of course.
Garry
So sorry , but you are wrong. The Declaration of Independence was written in English as was the Constitution. The men who wrote these documents were educated in Latin as well as some of them were experts at Greek as well. The English version was used because that was the common language in use in the 13 colonies amoung the legal authorities at the time. In Florida and Louisiana, which joined later, there were other languages used of course.
Since that time, the English language has become the dominant language in world markets. Most of the growth is the result of a free and enterprising economy that has been an example of the free enterprise model and the "common rights" of its citizens guaranteed by those very documents mentioned above. All of this from a little backwater country in the late 1700's but where the poor and oppressed could come and with their own effort carve out a new life. It is still happening today. If one wants to be a success in this country, be capable of reading and understanding rules, regulations, laws, and be competitive in the US economy, English is required. If companies want to gear their phone messages to spanish speaking people to get their business, that's their right. However, it does not change the fact that of the over 300 million people living in this country, English is the main language in use for all commerce and legal functions. To not learn the "common" language is to be a hard-headed nitwit and to guarantee yourself that you will be an outsider. I speak French, but the only time that I use that language everyday is when I am in France. I do business with French firms and I use French lawyers and secretaries to insure that I completely understand the nuances in the contracts. But don't forget, most of the business people that I deal with in France, Italy, Spain, and South America speak English very well. That is a requirement to succeed in trading with an American partner. The Spanish-speaking immigrant "needs" to learn the "native" language if they are going to successfully integrate themselves in this country. We have a large Vietnamese population in Texas and they all speak English or they couldn't survive in business. Do they speak their native language at home? Of course.
Garry
Gary way to miss the point and than turn around and agree with me :thumbsup:. First off ALL OF OUR ORIGINAL LAWS WERE WRITTEN IN LATIN (wonder why not english) as I have stated and Keith has backed up. Now as far as the dec. of independence and the like english was used for the previous reasons that I stated (cliff notes: didn't want to show allegence to any one country).
Your laws were originally (and still are to a degree) based on English Law with the requisite modifications to make yours a freer society with freedom and Rights for the individuals (citizens), whilst we as Subjects, have no rights at all - still. However, English Law was always based on Latin for the simple reason that the only literate men in England were Monks - ipso facto.
And that, my friend, will never change either, well, not in our lifetime anyway. The legal profession would hate the Law to be simplified en Anglais or Urdu so that mere mortals could understand it! Smacks of a pay cut for them.
There is another force at work - the global spread of Sharia Law... and no, that's not in English French or any other "European" Language but is written a bit (no, a lot) like this...
So, while we squabble, inroads are being made....
We (I mean, those of the caucasian persuasion) could always make a case for minority protection (and attendant special rules) since we find ourselves in that current position, and likely will find ourselves overly minoritized as the future unfolds.
Reverse discrimination anyone?
That's why none of the race-baiting crap makes sense. "They" are not a minority as they once were...whatever color "they" are, other than white. It's a power-grab and always has been.
When a nationality (not RACE) becomes marginalized because another nationality (again, not RACE) ignores their rules and boundaries, and displaces or replaces them with superior numbers, that is an invasion.
It irritates me rather badly that the "liberals" or whatever term they prefer, keep referring to Mexicans and other Hispanics as a RACE...they are called MEXICANS because that is a NATIONALITY...ie, an allegiance/alliance between themselves and a country they claim as their own. Much as AMERICAN means that you claim THIS country as your own.
Conversations of this nature are why I always exhort people to LEARN the meaning of words, so that they can communicate their point. I should not be forced to use someone else's opinion or beliefs in order to interpret their poorly chosen, bastardized use of a common word. With people changing the meaning of words for their own purposes, there is no possibility of COMMUNICATION. Again, it's just a power-grab, and they are using the blunt weapon of popular opinion to attempt to beat others into submission.
Reverse discrimination anyone?
That's why none of the race-baiting crap makes sense. "They" are not a minority as they once were...whatever color "they" are, other than white. It's a power-grab and always has been.
When a nationality (not RACE) becomes marginalized because another nationality (again, not RACE) ignores their rules and boundaries, and displaces or replaces them with superior numbers, that is an invasion.
It irritates me rather badly that the "liberals" or whatever term they prefer, keep referring to Mexicans and other Hispanics as a RACE...they are called MEXICANS because that is a NATIONALITY...ie, an allegiance/alliance between themselves and a country they claim as their own. Much as AMERICAN means that you claim THIS country as your own.
Conversations of this nature are why I always exhort people to LEARN the meaning of words, so that they can communicate their point. I should not be forced to use someone else's opinion or beliefs in order to interpret their poorly chosen, bastardized use of a common word. With people changing the meaning of words for their own purposes, there is no possibility of COMMUNICATION. Again, it's just a power-grab, and they are using the blunt weapon of popular opinion to attempt to beat others into submission.
+1 Garry. Exactly right, agree 100%.
Exactly. It gets my blood boiling every single time I encounter someone telling me that I'm not white, but hispanic, don't people know that a real hispanic is white/caucasian as race goes.
I'm a real hispanic, the term means those from Spain or from any other country as long as they are of spaniard descend or heritage. My father was born in Cuba and my mother in Puerto Rico, but they like million others who were born in Latin countries are of pure european blood even after many generations.
My mother the day she moved to the USA was told here at the airport to ride on the white bus, to eat on the white side, etc. But now we are encountering that natives/indians have created a problem by taking over the hispanic word as their own and as a race! And this is bothering million of white hispanics both here and back in their countries of birth. Having people acting with prejudice now towards us because of having an accent is absurd.
By the way whatever english I'm typing here is what I remembered learning in Puerto Rico where I studied until the 8th grade.
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I am mostly Puerto Rican to but to say that "we" are white is as far from the truth as one can be. You might want to look up the history of the island. Now my family and I all have light skin and light colored eyes but we are not the norm (as there are still some families that have "RELATIVELY" pure blood lines). Modern day Puerto Ricans were created when the moors (black / African) conquered the island and had RELATIONS with the original inhabitants the Indians (think Aztec) thus creating the dark skin big AS! people we know of today. Now that's not a bad thing at all just makes it impossible to claim to be white when more than likely you have moor blood running in your veins. Heck I proudly claim my almost non existent (as my family is one of those I mentioned) moor heritage when explaining the rather large size of my fun stick !!!!!!!!! lol
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Keith you are correct and I would like to add this JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie . You see we as a country owe more to our spanish brothern than most americans would like to believe. Listen we were created to be a melting pot and to take the best ideas from ALL WALKS OF LIFE and incorperate them into out society but if you are going to hold one over the other you better have all of your facts staright to support your stance and in this case it doesn't.
You're wrong and your little history post is below failing by a lot. it was Spaniards conquistadores that came into the island and many died along with the natives due to deseases. Later there was a second coming and the only blacks that came over were from Africa and not the Moorish people. The African blacks were slaves to the Moors so let's not follow this error and Hollywood myth. This blacks were slaves and their descend can be found still pure in Loiza and some other little areas. The moors are not black but Arabic, now there are blacks living in Morocco but those aren't the Moors of back then. Also no moors made it to the New World. There are Spaniads with Semitic blood but mostly Jewish just like in many other European countries. Nothing against those Moors as they had advances and also very clean people and that wasn't the case with Europeans, lol.
In Puerto Rico is very easily to know if you have either black or Indian in you, Taino Indian. The Catholic curch kept all marriage records and they include the race of the people including those that were mixed. Also remember that slavery there lasted longer than in the States. The island today isn't what as a few years ago. The Puerto Rican is a person who just happens to be born there, there's is no such thing as a Puerto Rican race and that everyone or almost everyone is mixed is another myth. Take a flght to the Canary Islands in Spain and you'll see the typical olive skin tone Puerto Rican and also the Puerto Rican accent as this is from where a lot of migration happen to go into Cuba and Puerto Rico. I could write a novel with a lot of educated facts on the subject. Also another big wave were of Corsicans.
Now talking about myself. My father is Cuban of Basque descend and the family moved from Europe to the orient of Cuba where they help found the town of Mayari. They left Europe with an armed ship under their comand. Their DNA was tested and is complete European. My mothers side is also completely European, tested DNA and also studied by a doctor who works on genealogy for National Geographic. I don't have Moor, Indian or black in me. She also was born in Utuado which everyone from there knows that only one black family lived there, now isn't the same as you might find some mixed people but who might have some native DNA. Her origins are from Castillas and Canarias.
By the way, she is a straight descend from Captain Correa, his common famous name. Do you know who he is? He fought and won a British attack to the island in which he was victorious and killed the British captain himself. There is more investigation to be made before we might know for sure if we are far descendants from C. C. But more on that later
Anyway don't follow the myth to manipulate the people or the myth so everyone feels united, is all crap. A long post from my iphone.
Saludos
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I was there not to long ago and if you think that there is not a distinct difference between the people than I just don't know what to tell you. It is accepted by the rest of the world (except for you) that puerto ricans are as i stated spanish (remember my aztec comment) and AFRICAN AMERICAN JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie .
If you don't like that than you will hate this The last of the Taino Empire in Puerto Rico or Boriken
cliff notes:
61% of puerto ricans have Amerindian mitochondrial DNA
27% " " " " AFRICAN DNA
12% Have caucasian DNA
SO we are mostly indian and afican american. I have have been off on the moor statement (which they were there spreading christianity ... convert or die) but not on the end result. WHITE YOU ARE NOT so come and sit in the back of the bus with me and let the white people drive us around!!!!!!
If you don't like that than you will hate this The last of the Taino Empire in Puerto Rico or Boriken
cliff notes:
61% of puerto ricans have Amerindian mitochondrial DNA
27% " " " " AFRICAN DNA
12% Have caucasian DNA
SO we are mostly indian and afican american. I have have been off on the moor statement (which they were there spreading christianity ... convert or die) but not on the end result. WHITE YOU ARE NOT so come and sit in the back of the bus with me and let the white people drive us around!!!!!!
