Flip of a switch...

Craig Gillingham

Banned because I can't follow the forum rules.
Fran baby... is it possible for my SL-C to sound like this one minute then a flip of a switch make it not noticable in a village graveyard at midnight :thumbsup:

YouTube - mazda le mans 1991

or is this verging on wizardry harry potter style, which as yet youve got no plans to develop. :shy:
 
Well, I can tell you how to make at least half your statement come true.....maybe. It's been about fifteen years now, but the group I worked with in SCCA GT2 and GT3 were as close as you could get to a factory team for Mazda in the "ammature" ranks back in the 90s. We won a couple national championships and got to take a tour of the facilities up in Irvine. We got to see a REAL 4 rotor, like the one in the movie, sitting on a stand and the crew chief made a comment, "How do we get one of those?" to the tour guide. He said that that one could be ours to take with us for a mere $120k. Needless to say, we didn't leave any heavier than when we arrived. Don't know if these are still even in the country, but I'm sure the price has increased, if they can be bought at all.
 

Craig Gillingham

Banned because I can't follow the forum rules.
sounds like a good fun era in your career crash.

(i take it then a trick bit off ebay for under $100 attached to a LS3 exhaust system doesnt really work then) hehehehehe
 

Craig Gillingham

Banned because I can't follow the forum rules.
THATS FLIPPING CRAZY MAN.

i was thinking more just an exhaust cut out....oh yes and maybe turn fuel cut out back on when on overun in EMS to get some good ol flamage out the back..pure batmobile style.
:)
 
I know we've had this discussion before, but in any case, IIRC, the Pineapple engines are pieced together two rotors, not REAL 4 rotors. Still looks pretty cool, but not the real banana.

As far as the $100 deal on ebay? Don't know. I have seen some remote diverter valves for exhausts, but I get the feeling THAT'S not what you are talking about.
 

Craig Gillingham

Banned because I can't follow the forum rules.
.... problem being noise here in UK has to meet 101db and cops clamping down on noise pollution here.
Just tongue in cheek really but looking for the best sound that an Ls3 can produe and then to turn back to quite when in city mode.
i think remote diverter valves are exactly the ticket but wonder if they "Chav" or actually a good idea
If they can make an LS3 sound more like a 26b all the better hehehe
 

Brian Hamilton

I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
Yeah they use 13b rotor housings with their own 4 rotor excentric shaft. They're still making great power and sound absolutely insane. For the money, I won't complain!! For $20k you're getting a fully built engine ready for whatever you want to throw at it. And I'd be throwing massive amounts of boost at it! I understand what you're saying Crash, but I think this is about as good as I'm ever gonna get when it comes to 4 rotor Wankels. hehe
 

Brian Hamilton

I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
.... problem being noise here in UK has to meet 101db and cops clamping down on noise pollution here.
Just tongue in cheek really but looking for the best sound that an Ls3 can produe and then to turn back to quite when in city mode.
i think remote diverter valves are exactly the ticket but wonder if they "Chav" or actually a good idea
If they can make an LS3 sound more like a 26b all the better hehehe


Lots of guys here in the states are putting the diverter valves on their exhausts. We call them "Cut-Outs". They give the car more of the old school open exhaust sound. If you want a really great exhaust sound, get a big turbo or 2 on there. Not only will they quiet the exhaust down significantly as well as boost your power, but when you open your cut-outs you get the really cool flame!!

Just my thoughts...

Open exhausts on turbo cars rules!!
 
Not talking down on it at all. If it's cheap, makes lots of power, and sounds great, it's for me! Just pointing out that the technologies used between the $20k model and the $120k model vary considerably. I would also hasten to guess that overall performance and durability are also vastly different.

I hear ya on the hoise thing. Sometimes I really want to just hear the car, but many times I want it quiet. It's a dilema for me too. I'm probably gonna go with a quiet system and have another to bolt on for track, etc.
 

Brian Hamilton

I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
Yeah Crash, I was reading on the 26b in the Mazda 787b and found where a large margin of the price tag goes to...

Telescoping Intake Manifold

3 spark plug rotor housings

I think that's about it. LOL I know the intake system was made of Kevlar or some exotic material for light weight and durability and the 3 plug rotor housings were only made for that engine and they didn't make very many. As for the Pineapple Racing 4 rotors, they use the standard 13b rotor housings which are only 2 plug, and you have to fabricate your own intake & exhaust manifolds. Not a big deal, but still. Plus they offer ceramic coatings for the rotor housings, porting services, etc. As far as the porting goes, I'm still trying to learn all the different ones and which does what. I'd want to get a ton of power, but still have it actually driveable. That seems to be the sacrifice when it comes to port work on these things. Maybe you can educate me. I'd appreciate it.

Laters,

Brian
 
The intake was/is made of phenolic.

Rotary engine ports are much like those of a two stroke engine as there are no valves. Simply put, there is only so tall you can make an intake port before it overlaps too much with the exhaust port when the rotor is turning and thereby both ports are open at the same time. This is why both intake and exhaust pulses are critical to rotary performance at the outer envelope. The way around this is to do what's called a "bridge port". This widens the intake port so more air/fuel can be stuffed in in a short period of time. It's equalivent to running a bigger valve for less duration in a piston engine. The "bridge" is an actual bridge that the corner seal of the rotor must ride on as the rotor face moves past the intake port. Without it, that corner seal would fall into the port and the rotor would no longer seal under compression. In any case, bridge ports can be very big, but because of rotor design can't be enlarged much to the inside. Therefore they must be done to the outside of the engine. This presents a problem because there is a water jacket to the outside. If the bridge port is really big, then epoxy is put into this water jacket and then ported to become a part of the intake port.

Port jobs that are tall and close to being too much will have the ever present "lope" like that heard on the 4 rotor video. This indicates that at idle the engine is right on the edge of even running because of the overlap between intake and exhaust ports.

Although the 4 rotor uses what is called peripheral ports where both the exhaust and the intake ports are in the rotor housing, not the side housings. The newer Renesis engines, by contrast, put both intake and exhaust in the side housings. Again because of rotor dynamics when turning, allows essentially, the ports to be open longer with less overlap. The peripheral port engine is traditionally for all out top end performace, and the Renesis is typically thought of for it's economy, although Mazda has proven that it can also boost HP substantially with the new Renesis design.

There are only a couple guys in the country that really know what they are doing when it comes to modifying rotary engine ports.
 
Rereading your post, if you're gonna turbo it, use a short wide port, maybe even a big bridge port, and use the turbo rotors. They are lower compression, and the ports really just shouldn't cause a lot of overlap between intake and exhaust ports. Pretty much like running a turbo on a piston engine. A turbo cam doesn't run much overlap and as such idles and starts well.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
I worked in a Mazda shop back in 1985/86 and they sent out some publications on the quad rotor. I remember they were talking ceramic turbo running at 225000 rpm on ceramic bearings - now coming from Africa where there was no close tolerances on anything this blew my mind - probably why I remember the numbers.

In the same publication they had pictures of a complete ceramic engine that was running on a dyno and had been for some time as the complete engine was cherry red. The big thng on this engine was they did not have any cooling system installed!

I wish I had managed to get the publications out the office before I left

Ian
 
Yes there are a couple companies right now working on no cooling system rotaries. As far as the ceramic engine goes, this is somewhat of a holy grail for all engine manufacturers. The durability and heat handling capacities are huge, but the problem is getting a material that is actually just that. Durable enough to handle the explosions, and yet able to also handle the heat. As yet, AFAIK, the brittleness issue hasn't been resolved. The costs are also astronomical.

I think 225,000 is a little high. 25,000 would be extraordinary.
 
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