Superlite GTA

[john b]

( Sorry. My post is completely off topic. Couldn't delete. Please return to the properly schedule subject... The Superlite GTA)

That poor Porsche 911. All of that work and the engine is STILL in the wrong place!

 

[Justin Hutson]

Haha true that! It's like the lsx swaps.. It bothers me just looking at the engine shoe horned all up in there.

 

[Matt K]

Easy boys :tongue3: I'm a p-car lover. One of my favorite 911s is pictured above on the right, hence my screen name.

 

[Matt K]

I know the engine is at the wrong end and it's awd but this thing looks quite fun :shocked:
It is traction limited and weighs in at 2470 lbs. With massive rear tires and TC, a high hp Apex should hopefully post similar figures through the first few gears.

Quickest Mitsubishi Colt AWD in germany 978HP & 871Nm - YouTube

build thread...
http://www.evo123.net/showthread.php?t=11806

 

[Greg Wolfe]

I'm hoping that my proposed build (500whp, 325 rear pilot super sports, and racelogic traction control) will do it in low to mid 3s. It's all a question of how hard the TC has to work. I was just curious of some real numbers with a lower hp fiero with narrower tires.

EDIT: Apexi hahaha I love it

I too am planning on 325 Pilot SS (love those tires) and approximately 400-500hp. My ultimate would be about 450 high revving hp and 2500 lbs.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Justin Hutson]

I know the engine is at the wrong end and it's awd but this thing looks quite fun :shocked:
It is traction limited and weighs in at 2470 lbs. With massive rear tires and TC, a high hp Apex should hopefully post similar figures through the first few gears.

Quickest Mitsubishi Colt AWD in germany 978HP & 871Nm - YouTube

build thread...
Big BHP Colt ca4a

I saw that car over at 3si.org, thing is awesome!!!

 

[Dave]

That poor Porsche 911. All of that work and the engine is STILL in the wrong place!

Love it.
Same thing I told my friend who swapped a 20b into his 911.

 

[René]

I know the engine is at the wrong end and it's awd but this thing looks quite fun :shocked:
It is traction limited and weighs in at 2470 lbs. With massive rear tires and TC, a high hp Apex should hopefully post similar figures through the first few gears.

Quickest Mitsubishi Colt AWD in germany 978HP & 871Nm - YouTube

build thread...
Big BHP Colt ca4a

oooh, thats fast from 100 to 200km/h in just 3.7sec, also the sound is good, sounds almost like a bike engine.

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Is anyone here contemplating doing an LS4 with MT integration?

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Matt K]

Is anyone here contemplating doing an LS4 with MT integration?

Mr. Wolfe

I thought that there was no conceivable way to do it?

 

[Greg Wolfe]

I thought that there was no conceivable way to do it?

Without modification, there isn't. However, some have taken the plunge and did all of the necessary work to transform it into a MT. As far as I know, these have only been on an individual basis and no one has designed multiple for sale on the market.

I am just trying to collect all of the information I can on my own build and I want to start narrowing some items down. i.e., which motor I am going to commit to. MT is important to me, but I am not going to choose 1 motor over another if it is going to take a bunch of fabrication. Unless someone designs and sales an adaption kit, I am sticking with the 4g63.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Fran,

Any chance you have a wing designed for this car?

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Matt K]

Without modification, there isn't. However, some have taken the plunge and did all of the necessary work to transform it into a MT. As far as I know, these have only been on an individual basis and no one has designed multiple for sale on the market.

I am just trying to collect all of the information I can on my own build and I want to start narrowing some items down. i.e., which motor I am going to commit to. MT is important to me, but I am not going to choose 1 motor over another if it is going to take a bunch of fabrication. Unless someone designs and sales an adaption kit, I am sticking with the 4g63.

Mr. Wolfe

That's an interesting point. Like you, I'm only interested in a manual trans. Considering that I knew nothing about turbos going into this, I found there to be a steep learning curve when learning about the 4g63. That being said, I now feel like I know 4g63s pretty well and have my ideal engine build planned and am excited about it.
My thoughts if a kit/adapter was made...
An advantage I see with the LS4 is the sound. Not that I dislike the sound of a well sorted 4g63 but I'll always prefer the sound of a v8, and sound is a major part of the driving experience for me.
I would build the Apex for the street, circuits, and mile events. Whereas the LS4 will redline at 6k, the 4g63 will redline at 8500 pretty easily and yield zr1 level standing mile speeds with the ability to hit 200 with enough room and hp. But a smaller turbo ls4 would provide slightly more linear power for the circuit. Honestly, I think I'd personally still go with the 4g63 and going into this, I would have NEVER expected to say that.

 

[Justin]

Just my opinion, but I think the LS4 powered Apex would make a great touring car. The 4G63 would be a beast if built up!

 

[Greg Wolfe]

That's an interesting point. Like you, I'm only interested in a manual trans. Considering that I knew nothing about turbos going into this, I found there to be a steep learning curve when learning about the 4g63. That being said, I now feel like I know 4g63s pretty well and have my ideal engine build planned and am excited about it.
My thoughts if a kit/adapter was made...
An advantage I see with the LS4 is the sound. Not that I dislike the sound of a well sorted 4g63 but I'll always prefer the sound of a v8, and sound is a major part of the driving experience for me.
I would build the Apex for the street, circuits, and mile events. Whereas the LS4 will redline at 6k, the 4g63 will redline at 8500 pretty easily and yield zr1 level standing mile speeds with the ability to hit 200 with enough room and hp. But a smaller turbo ls4 would provide slightly more linear power for the circuit. Honestly, I think I'd personally still go with the 4g63 and going into this, I would have NEVER expected to say that.

So 8500 RPM is not out of the question with the 4g63? Revs are more important to me than a V8 to be honest. I love cars that start singing after 7k. Have you shared your plans for your engine on here? I am interested.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Matt K]

So 8500 RPM is not out of the question with the 4g63? Revs are more important to me than a V8 to be honest. I love cars that start singing after 7k. Have you shared your plans for your engine on here? I am interested.

Mr. Wolfe

It is my understanding that you can rev to 8500 with upgraded springs and titanium retainers (Crower makes a kit). You will need more aggressive cams to make power higher in the rpm. The HKS 272s are very livable from what I'v heard. Power might start to drop off a little before 8500 but I would set it at 8500 for top speed (mile events/silver state).
As far as my build... I would go with a twin scroll exhaust mani and a holset hx35. I love that the hx35s are cheap, oem, and serviceable. They're a bigger turbo but have good spool characteristics for their size; that combined with a twin scroll mani will make the spool even quicker. The turbo/exhaust mani setup are the heart of the build and everything else is your standard equipment for e85 500 whp builds.... built long block (check out Engines (4G63, 4G64, 4B11) – Jacks Transmissions LLC but hopefully I can find a donor vehicle with a recent rebuild), jmfab intake mani (largely unnecessary but will dress up the engine bay), 2150 cc injectors, upgraded fuel pump, bell intercooler, etc.

here's the build that inspired my turbo/mani selection
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/405768-my-story.html

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Thanks for all of that information Matt. I will check those links out.

Is it possible to build an ultra reliable 400-500 hp 4g63 build? Does anyone have experience with these numbers? By reliable, I am talking about driving across country without hesitation and expecting to get over 100k on the engine. Honestly, I know maintenance will be involved, but I am trying to be realistic. I know many have talked about people building these engines wrong, but there are literally hundreds, if not thousands for sale across the country with blown engines and they are almost all "new builds" and something went wrong. Just a little nervous, that's all. I am looking for that magic number that maintains reliability while giving me GT3 performance.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Matt K]

Thanks for all of that information Matt. I will check those links out.

Is it possible to build an ultra reliable 400-500 hp 4g63 build? Does anyone have experience with these numbers? By reliable, I am talking about driving across country without hesitation and expecting to get over 100k on the engine. Honestly, I know maintenance will be involved, but I am trying to be realistic. I know many have talked about people building these engines wrong, but there are literally hundreds, if not thousands for sale across the country with blown engines and they are almost all "new builds" and something went wrong. Just a little nervous, that's all. I am looking for that magic number that maintains reliability while giving me GT3 performance.

Mr. Wolfe

I feel like I have seen a lot of builds that are sold incomplete or not running and the owners say that they lost interest in the project, or it's good to go if you solve this one simple issue it has... definitely a little worrisome. I cannot speak of reliability except that I believe that some people give 4g63s a bad name when they do incomplete builds/cut corners, use cheap parts, too much boost for internals, avoidable 7 bolt crank walk, etc. At least, that's what I hope. Like you, I want a car that can easily go cross country and if reliability is a major problem... :veryangry:
I'm sure the dsm gurus will respond and I look forward to their response

 

[Greg Wolfe]

I feel like I have seen a lot of builds that are sold incomplete or not running and the owners say that they lost interest in the project, or it's good to go if you solve this one simple issue it has... definitely a little worrisome. I cannot speak of reliability except that I believe that some people give 4g63s a bad name when they do incomplete builds/cut corners, use cheap parts, too much boost for internals, avoidable 7 bolt crank walk, etc. At least, that's what I hope. Like you, I want a car that can easily go cross country and if reliability is a major problem... :veryangry:
I'm sure the dsm gurus will respond and I look forward to their response

I agree. It seems many that are in the DSM "game", do not have an abundance of funds and just want "fast" over reliable. Obviously, not all are in that boat, but it comes with the territory whenever a car becomes this affordable.

My ultimate would be to build an engine that could safely take 700-1000hp and run it at enough to boost for half of that.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Also want 8-9k rpms. :devilish:

Mr. Wolfe