72 Ford Torino BB
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
Ron Earp
Admin
Well, we finally got the car out for the inaugural drive!! A long time coming!
The cam that was in the engine we had to pull out and I ended up getting a cam from Cars by Carl that had more lift, maybe 10 degrees less duration, but a wider lobe separation. Plus, I put a large port dual plane intake on it instead of the Victor. The bottom line is that we didn't have trouble getting the car fired up and idling although it is a lot of work to swap the cam with the engine in the car.
From left to right, Jeff G, Sumner S, and myself on the right. We took the car out for a short drive to a local BBQ restaurant, scarfed some food, drove a bit on the highway, and met up with Jeff Young who has a 72 Charger 440 4 speed.
I'll have more driving impressions later, but there is one issue I need to fix straightaway - the brake pedal feel. The car is using the stock master cylinder and has rear Ford Explorer brakes. Everything works, the car stops and so on, but the pedal travel is incredibly long. I'm betting getting a master cylinder from a Ford Explorer will a) bolt on although may require fitting changes, and b) solve the problem and bring that pedal up off the floor. The brake system is absolutely properly bleed and solid with fluid, no problems with that at all.
Anyone have any experience with alternative master cylinders on rear disc brake conversions?
****EDIT - Another piece of info - I am no longer using the stock Torino proportioning valve. I tossed that and am running a line straight to the front and one to the rear (obviously teed). The rear line has a valve on it that I can reduce line pressure. We've done this on countless race cars with no issue at all, but they were all Mustangs, Miatas, Zs, RCR T70 and they all had masters that were designed for the car. The Torino started life with disc fronts and drum rears and is still using that master, which is why I tihnk it needs swapping out. I knew it'd need changing but to what is the question.
The cam that was in the engine we had to pull out and I ended up getting a cam from Cars by Carl that had more lift, maybe 10 degrees less duration, but a wider lobe separation. Plus, I put a large port dual plane intake on it instead of the Victor. The bottom line is that we didn't have trouble getting the car fired up and idling although it is a lot of work to swap the cam with the engine in the car.
From left to right, Jeff G, Sumner S, and myself on the right. We took the car out for a short drive to a local BBQ restaurant, scarfed some food, drove a bit on the highway, and met up with Jeff Young who has a 72 Charger 440 4 speed.
I'll have more driving impressions later, but there is one issue I need to fix straightaway - the brake pedal feel. The car is using the stock master cylinder and has rear Ford Explorer brakes. Everything works, the car stops and so on, but the pedal travel is incredibly long. I'm betting getting a master cylinder from a Ford Explorer will a) bolt on although may require fitting changes, and b) solve the problem and bring that pedal up off the floor. The brake system is absolutely properly bleed and solid with fluid, no problems with that at all.
Anyone have any experience with alternative master cylinders on rear disc brake conversions?
****EDIT - Another piece of info - I am no longer using the stock Torino proportioning valve. I tossed that and am running a line straight to the front and one to the rear (obviously teed). The rear line has a valve on it that I can reduce line pressure. We've done this on countless race cars with no issue at all, but they were all Mustangs, Miatas, Zs, RCR T70 and they all had masters that were designed for the car. The Torino started life with disc fronts and drum rears and is still using that master, which is why I tihnk it needs swapping out. I knew it'd need changing but to what is the question.
Ron Earp
Admin
I've used residual valves and somehow I don't think that is going to do it. When the car is off the pedal is high and hard. When the car is running the vacuum boost allows the pedal to go to the floor - it stops fine but the travel is extremely long.
I'm waiting for my CMP M1 Garand to arrive (should be tomorrow, gotta love it when the government* will ship a rifle to your home). Then me and the Torino are going to practice Get Off My Lawn.
*Technically not the case, CMP became a non-profit in the 90s although their product, US military surplus rifles, are given to them by the US government at no charge.
I'm waiting for my CMP M1 Garand to arrive (should be tomorrow, gotta love it when the government* will ship a rifle to your home). Then me and the Torino are going to practice Get Off My Lawn.
*Technically not the case, CMP became a non-profit in the 90s although their product, US military surplus rifles, are given to them by the US government at no charge.
Check you have clearance between the pushrod from brake booster to piston on master cyl ( Remove bolts from master cyl, pull master cyl fwd and place a dab of plasticene on end of pushrod, refit master cyl & without touching brake pedal etc remove again & check for ~0.030" clearance), some pushrods can be adjusted or you may need to cut a thin alloy spacer to fit between M/C & booster to create clearance. If you have to make the spacer also fit a similar thickness washer over pushrod to exert the necessary pressure on the seal between M/C & booster. This can happen when fitting any new master cylinder due to tolerance stack up, & the lack of clearance causes the piston cup to block off the recovery port, more likely to show up with pressure bleeding as the process has enough pressure to push the piston back a bit further than it will be when in normal use. Just been thru this exercise with an old OZ Holden.
With the Explorer disc brakes on rear I would expect that any RP valve that might have been fitted to the M/C should be removed, but that might vary with caliper design.
EDIT, just how much bigger was the piston dia on those new calipers?, As Rick has pointed out you may need a bigger MC dia just to bring pedal feel back into the ballpark.
With the Explorer disc brakes on rear I would expect that any RP valve that might have been fitted to the M/C should be removed, but that might vary with caliper design.
EDIT, just how much bigger was the piston dia on those new calipers?, As Rick has pointed out you may need a bigger MC dia just to bring pedal feel back into the ballpark.
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The stock disc/drum MC does not have enough volume for the rear discs. By the time you get the rears involved, the fronts are on the verge of lockup. The later Exploder MC is likely a four bolt mount as opposed to the 60s/70s two bolt. A MC from a SVO Mustang with an adjustable pushrod will likely do the trick. Always easier to put an adjustable valve on the rear line than to match the volume front to rear.
The Ford Boss 302 TA cars of 69/70 used a MC from a late 60s F100 pickup to get enough rear brake volume as well as a proportioning valve, that would work on the Torino.
GO get 'em Clint....................
The Ford Boss 302 TA cars of 69/70 used a MC from a late 60s F100 pickup to get enough rear brake volume as well as a proportioning valve, that would work on the Torino.
GO get 'em Clint....................
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Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Rick's solution sounds identical to what I've read in Mopar land about rear disc conversions. You don't have enough/too much (can't remember) bore in the M/C for the rears and can't really get them to start to work.
Try that T/A MC and see what happens.
Car drives great though.
Try that T/A MC and see what happens.
Car drives great though.
What a glorious car, Ron 
epper:!
The '72 Torino is probably my second favorite Ford of all times...VERY close behind the '64 Fairlane Sports Coupe....major droolage happenin' here, buddy!
My Cobra replica had a standard front disc/rear drum M/C on it, I had to replace it with a "Corvette STYLE" M/C with equal size reservoirs for both front and back. I haven't had a chance to bleed out the brakes yet...anxious to try it as the braking was very poor with the M/C leaking out all the fluid...scary! I'm sure it will need some sort of proportioning valve, too.
Cheers! Cheers! Cheers!!!!! It's a keeper (although I do notice you turn your cars over on a regular basis) :thumbsup:
Doug
epper:!The '72 Torino is probably my second favorite Ford of all times...VERY close behind the '64 Fairlane Sports Coupe....major droolage happenin' here, buddy!
My Cobra replica had a standard front disc/rear drum M/C on it, I had to replace it with a "Corvette STYLE" M/C with equal size reservoirs for both front and back. I haven't had a chance to bleed out the brakes yet...anxious to try it as the braking was very poor with the M/C leaking out all the fluid...scary! I'm sure it will need some sort of proportioning valve, too.
Cheers! Cheers! Cheers!!!!! It's a keeper (although I do notice you turn your cars over on a regular basis) :thumbsup:
Doug
Ron Earp
Admin
Thanks for the info fellows. I have some old information from back when I started this project suggesting the use of a SN95 Cobra MC and another with an Explorer. I've also emailed Rob who runs Vintage Venom since he builds rear disc conversions for Fords. I'm going to remove the MC on the Torino now and see what I've got. Once I have a look inside I can definitively figure out what is going on and maybe match up with something at the parts store.
Glad you're liking the Torino Doug. I've always liked their look too and I'm planning on keeping this one around awhile. Race cars I pretty regularly swap around since they have an intended purpose and as a project once the goal has been met, or I understand how it will or can be met, then I'm ready for another project. However, with my current collection I'm content and ready for a slowdown in car work at the Earp house. Since the Lola project moved on in 2011 we've built two racing Mustangs that are out doing their thing and the Torino, with very little rest time.
I'll be pleased for awhile if I can just keep improving my Mustang and Torino, albeit at a less frantic pace than what we have been doing. For example, last Sunday while going to replace a rear main seal on one of our 3.8L Mustang engines we found that the rear main cap was cracked. It was out Sunday, torn down, crank and block at the shop Monday morning, back from the shop Wednesday night, assembled Thursday/Friday, in car Friday/Saturday and fired up for test drive on Sunday. Small potatoes for a shop, but a lot of work for a couple of guys with full time jobs and families. I gotta back that off a bit for the future.
There are some other little areas with the Torino that need sorting but thus far it is as expected. Once I get it so that it can drive as I like I'll have some video. It has a great sound and with some spring/shock tuning I think it'll be a great driver.
Glad you're liking the Torino Doug. I've always liked their look too and I'm planning on keeping this one around awhile. Race cars I pretty regularly swap around since they have an intended purpose and as a project once the goal has been met, or I understand how it will or can be met, then I'm ready for another project. However, with my current collection I'm content and ready for a slowdown in car work at the Earp house. Since the Lola project moved on in 2011 we've built two racing Mustangs that are out doing their thing and the Torino, with very little rest time.
I'll be pleased for awhile if I can just keep improving my Mustang and Torino, albeit at a less frantic pace than what we have been doing. For example, last Sunday while going to replace a rear main seal on one of our 3.8L Mustang engines we found that the rear main cap was cracked. It was out Sunday, torn down, crank and block at the shop Monday morning, back from the shop Wednesday night, assembled Thursday/Friday, in car Friday/Saturday and fired up for test drive on Sunday. Small potatoes for a shop, but a lot of work for a couple of guys with full time jobs and families. I gotta back that off a bit for the future.
There are some other little areas with the Torino that need sorting but thus far it is as expected. Once I get it so that it can drive as I like I'll have some video. It has a great sound and with some spring/shock tuning I think it'll be a great driver.
What Rick said. You need a bigger M/C.
Carl (Cars by Carl) is a great resource - he built the motor in my truck.
Congratulations!
Carl (Cars by Carl) is a great resource - he built the motor in my truck.
Congratulations!
