Are u proud to b a liberal?

Bob,

Sometimes my friend, I get the impression you would not even eat food that agreed with you.

What is there to criticise?

The curriculum "stresses that abstinence is the best way to avoid pregnancy and STD/HIV" and reminded the Post that parents have the option to exclude their kids from lessons on "methods of prevention."

Moral corruption of children is not solely the responsibility of Liberals. I went to an English Catholic boarding school a more Conservative education you could not wish to hope for. Whilst two wrongs do not make a right, believe me I was subjected to far worse than any sex education class could teach.

Your moral indignation does seem to me to be somewhat subjective. I suspect like most people my moral compass was derived from my parents. Now as devout Catholics I am sure they would wholeheartedly approve of the fact that the curriculum "stresses that abstinence is the best way to avoid pregnancy and STD/HIV"

I am also sure they would find the insults, references to men having sex with buffalos, turds , the majority of the jokes on the jokes thread, and the “moral dilemma” thread on a public forum, available to anyone old enough to read, equally reprehensible and morally corrupting.

In this country when Conservatives, Liberal et all get on the moral high horse they tend to hark back to Victorian times when everyone was so moral and preached it. However, things are not always what they seem. Just look at John Fowles book the French Lieutenants Woman

"Outside of marriage, your Victorian gentleman could look forward to 2.4 [sexual encounters] a week," Mike (Jeremy Irons) coolly calculates after Anna (Meryl Streep) has read to him the statistics according to which, while London's male population in 1857 was 1 1/4 million, the city's estimated 80,000 prostitutes were receiving a total of 2 million clients per week. And frequently, Anna adds, the women thus forced to earn their living came from respectable positions like that of a governess, simply having fallen into bad luck, e.g. by being discharged after a dispute with their employer and their resulting inability to find another position.

This brief dialogue towards the beginning of this movie based on John Fowles's 1969 novel succinctly illustrates both the fate that would most likely have been in store for title character Sarah (Meryl Streep in her "movie within the movie" role), had she left provincial Lyme Regis on Dorset's Channel coast and gone to London, and the Victorian society's moral duplicity: For while no virtues were regarded as highly as honor, chastity and integrity; while no woman intent on keeping her good name could even be seen talking to a man alone (let alone go beyond that); and while marriage - like any contract - was considered sacrosanct, rendering the partner who deigned to breach it an immediate social outcast, all these rules were suspended with regard to prostitutes; women who, for whatever reasons, had sunk so low they were regarded as nonpersons and thus, inherently unable to stain anybody's reputation but their own.

At the risk of sounding supercilious, there were several Brits who although I didn’t always agree with I did consider the voice of reason and look forward to their posts who no longer partake in these discussions.

I suspect this is because they came to the conclusion that frankly their American cousins don't give a toss about their opinions so it was not worth posting.

I feel they have a point.
 
Domtoni -- are you proud of being a conservative? As the right goes further and further with racism and religious fundamentalism and bigotry against Muslims and lack of respect for the working classes, do you ever ask yourself...am *I* the next Hitler?

You made it part of the topic.
 
You made it part of the topic.

Nick, for decades the Conservative movement has been trying to get the government schools to just mention the idea of abstinence. The universal reply has been you've got to be kidding. How do you control teenagers when it comes to sex.

The abstinence rider is being used so they can say they will include it in the curriculum, but past experience says, if they DO mention it, it will be treated as a joke or some Victorian relic.

Just read what they plan to do, and ask yourself, would you want your preteen, even teen to be taught this crap?
City schools’ sex-ed workbooks sound more like instruction books than abstinence education -- EDITORIAL - NYPOST.com

And, as for the opt out, it is only for the birth control segment of the curriculum. I don't know what goes on in your country, but over here, we've had a long struggle with the left sexualizing/perverting our kids at a ever younger ages.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Lonesome, how did you learn about sex? Did you have premarital sex? When did you lose your virginity? Did you ever conceive out of wedlock? And have you ever had a venereal disease?
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I want to see where his aversion to sex education came from. Kind of like when we play psycho analysis with you and your apparent guilt over taking unemployment that drives you to look down on others who do the same.

On your post above, I can't help you. You still don't get it. I posted some outlandish "conservative" stuff in my post to show Domtoni (who also doesn't get it) that Lonesome was doing far more than just "asking a question without comment." You continue to prove my point.
 
Lonesome, how did you learn about sex? Did you have premarital sex? When did you lose your virginity? Did you ever conceive out of wedlock? And have you ever had a venereal disease?

The point being, simple sex education is fine with most everyone. The perversions need to be left out of the classroom.

Since you're so into me, learned it from parents and friends. Yes. Sixteen. No, and I thank God every day that I don't have a child out there somewhere who I have no idea of their plight in life. No VD.

How about you?
 
, we've had a long struggle with the left sexualizing/perverting our kids at a ever younger ages.

Bob,

I will say it again "sexualizing/perverting our kids at a ever younger ages" is not the sole preserve of the left.

Jeff is right education is the key.

The abstinence rider is being used so they can say they will include it in the curriculum, but past experience says, if they DO mention it, it will be treated as a joke or some Victorian relic.

.

The only time my abstinence was treated as a joke was by my friends most of whom, FWIW were Conservatives.
 
I want to see where his aversion to sex education came from. Kind of like when we play psycho analysis with you and your apparent guilt over taking unemployment that drives you to look down on others who do the same.

On your post above, I can't help you. You still don't get it. I posted some outlandish "conservative" stuff in my post to show Domtoni (who also doesn't get it) that Lonesome was doing far more than just "asking a question without comment." You continue to prove my point.

And you dodged very nicely again.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
What "perversions?"

Do you really think the manual in question is saying that beastiality is right? Or maybe it is trying to educate kids that it is wrong?

And so your "education" from your parents and friends (yay!) didn't stop you from having premarital sex before you were an adult.

Me? What is this, a forum 69? Yes, 18, no and no. "Formal" sex education in middle school, plus some discussions with parents, and friends.

You are getting closer to having a reasonable non-politicized discussion about the actual issue. I'm proud of your growth.

The point being, simple sex education is fine with most everyone. The perversions need to be left out of the classroom.

Since you're so into me, learned it from parents and friends. Yes. Sixteen. No, and I thank God every day that I don't have a child out there somewhere who I have no idea of their plight in life. No VD.

How about you?
 
What "perversions?"

Do you really think the manual in question is saying that beastiality is right? Or maybe it is trying to educate kids that it is wrong?

And so your "education" from your parents and friends (yay!) didn't stop you from having premarital sex before you were an adult.

Me? What is this, a forum 69? Yes, 18, no and no. "Formal" sex education in middle school, plus some discussions with parents, and friends.

You are getting closer to having a reasonable non-politicized discussion about the actual issue. I'm proud of your growth.

Do we really need to introduce bestiality into the mix?

I mean, the Marquis didn't even come up until

English appreciation in JC.

The Sixties insisted on sex and I was the benefactee of Rock and Roll. The word, jaded, comes to mind. But you know what, it was senseless. I left out the drugs part of that equation because I am blessed with a non addictive personality, and I'm more interesting than any drug.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Sure we put beastiality in the mix to educate kids not to do it. What is wrong with that?

The sixties "insisted" on sex? And you were just along for the ride right? No personal responsbility, just had to do it. And now, you want to preach the opposite -- abstinence. Nice work!
 
Sure we put beastiality in the mix to educate kids not to do it. What is wrong with that?

The sixties "insisted" on sex? And you were just along for the ride right? No personal responsbility, just had to do it. And now, you want to preach the opposite -- abstinence. Nice work!

I experienced it and found it wrong. The power of peer pressure is incredible. You know, Jeff, you can learn from your mistakes. my kids ended up being very happy to be raised the way they were.
 
Domtoni -- are you proud of being a conservative? As the right goes further and further with racism and religious fundamentalism and bigotry against Muslims and lack of respect for the working classes, do you ever ask yourself...am *I* the next Hitler?

You are the one that brought it up!
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
And what is the best way to resist peer pressure? To leave sex education to learning "from your friends?"

Or to educate kids about sex -- the good and the bad and the difficult and the troubling.

I can't imagine any scenario in which sex education as it was doled out in the 50s and early 60s is "better" than what we have now.

And yet, going back to your first post, you see progress in sex education as liberals destroying their own children and sexualizing them. Bizarre really.

I experienced it and found it wrong. The power of peer pressure is incredible. You know, Jeff, you can learn from your mistakes. my kids ended up being very happy to be raised the way they were.
 
I experienced it and found it wrong. The power of peer pressure is incredible. You know, Jeff, you can learn from your mistakes. my kids ended up being very happy to be raised the way they were.

Bob,

Bob,

They had a sex education TV programme over here for secondary school children where they were very frank and open in what they discussed.

They showed clips from the internet including bestiality to the parents of the children they were educating to show them what their kids can have access to at a few clicks of a mouse. They were shocked, most of the boys admitted to having watched clips similar to those being shown to their parents.

It appeared that in the boys case their sex education was coming primarily from pornograhic films.

They discussed and taught the girls (boys present) how it was ok to say no, and they discussed with the boys (girls present) that treating girls the way they are treated in pornographic films is not healthy.

They also stressed to them that if they were going to play adult games then they needed to be responsible adults.

Now I don't know how edited the episodes were but it seemed to diminish peer pressure. Sometimes I think we underestimate our young, and assume the worst maybe because of our past misdemeanours.

Remember Bob just because you turned a blind eye to morality in your youth does not mean others will. ;)
 
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Bob,

Bob,

They had a sex education TV programme over here for secondary school children where they were very frank and open in what they discussed.

They showed clips from the internet including bestiality to the parents of the children they were educating to show them what their kids can have access to at a few clicks of a mouse. They were shocked, most of the boys admitted to having watched clips similar to those being shown to their parents.

It appeared that in the boys case their sex education was coming primarily from pornograhic films.

They discussed and taught the girls (boys present) how it was ok to say no, and they discussed with the boys (girls present) that treating girls the way they are treated in pornographic films is not healthy.

They also stressed to them that if they were going to play adult games then they needed to be responsible adults.

Now I don't know how edited the episodes were but it seemed to diminish peer pressure. Sometimes I think we underestimate our young, and assume the worst maybe because of our past misdemeanours.

Remember Bob just because you turned a blind eye to morality in your youth does not mean others will. ;)

Excellent point Nick. A bit of sobriety for all. I have to say, on this topic I'm not on either side. I think the degree to which this is going is a bit too far as Bob is arguing, primarily because it is taken up by others outside the family circle, but not necessarily because of the content; that is a different argument IMO. As for the other side of the argument, I do think we need to keep a close eye on our own individual upbringings and potentially limiting ideas on the evolution of education. I'm not comfortable with it (I was just introduced to this via Bob's link earlier - thanks Bob), but I also understand that the world I was brought up in is far different than today. Do we want our kids finding this stuff out on their own and then letting nature grab hold of their curiosities, or do we want to grab the bull (sorry, buffalo :drunk:) by the horns and have a say in this? There are always two sides to the story, and it behooves us as parents (two very young girls of my own at risk here) to be cognizant of all options.

OK, I vomited a bunch of stuff and I don't know if it makes conversational sense, but I think it does no good to react in such an absolute way to imply, once again, that liberals are out to destroy our entire culture like they're following some evil secret scheme. Come on people, if we can't discuss this like adults then who is guiding our children?
 
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