Audi 016,Porsche 944,Re-spline of 016

[Steve26]

So what's all this going to cost? I just replaced an Audi 016 box with a 1987 930 LSD box and the total cost was under $4000.00 and now I never need to worry about it. At what point do you just spend the money and be done with it? When you compare the 944 box with the 930 they are worlds apart. I'm not saying the 944 won't work but it will always be a concern. For a track car do you really want to be worrying about how hard you drive because you might hurt your transaxle or would you rather worry about something else like your driving? I know it always comes down to money but if your racing the difference between 1.5K~2.5K you are going to spend on the 944 and 4K for a 930 where is the brake even point? Just my .02

Steve26

 

[Terry Oxandale]

I've had the same thoughts as Steve. I've got both of these boxes (acutally all three of them), and what I don't care for in the 930 design is the shift rod location (cramps the rear bodywork), where the 016 does not. For those that consider this a key point, and while using a lower HP application, this may be the better alternative to the more expensive boxes offering this same advantage. And then again, there are those "Poindexters" (me included) that enjoy doing stuff like this just to see if it can be done successfully.

 

[Russ Noble]

what I don't care for in the 930 design is the shift rod location (cramps the rear bodywork)

And then again, there are those "Poindexters" (me included) that enjoy doing stuff

Then you might like to make a side shift setup (well top shift actually) where the fulcrum plate bolts on

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Russ, I did not know this was possible. In all of the posts and web references I've looked at, the G50 seemed to be the only case that allows a side shift (as well as the smaller 914 boxes), but I'd never found any info for this kind of set-up for a 930. Tell me this is so!!

 

[Danny]

Has anybody checked out the 900hp modified Audi box claims of this aussie gear company?

6 speed Transaxle LSD - Other - Pfitzner Performance Gearbox

 

[Julian]

Yeah, well I wouldn't be running an 016 or derivative if I had my time again, but hindsight is like that. This was the most expedient method for me to get the car going again. I don't have to replace adaptor plate, flywheel, starter, clutch, driveshafts, exhaust, shifter mechanisms and cables, torsen LSD etc. By the time I went for a G50 or whatever box I was up for $12000 to $15000k plus a lot more time off the road. I don't want to wait that long and I also just don't have that money presently. Besides, you always want more, not matter how good the setup you have is. In the words of Ben Folds, 'There's always someone cooler than you'.

 

[Jonathan Strain]

Danny, it looks like that horsepower claim is for the LSD not the gearbox.

 

[Steve26]

"By the time I went for a G50 or whatever box I was up for $12000 to $15000"

Really? Like I said I just did it for under $4000? My friend is putting a Ricardo in his GT and it's not costing him $15000. I'm not saying your decision is wrong but I will say that on a track car you will always be fixing the Audi box so you would be money ahead to put a stronger box in now.

Steve26

 

[Dave]

Really? Like I said I just did it for under $4000

Really, You couldn't even buy a G50 in Australia for $4000.

 

[Russ Noble]

Russ, I did not know this was possible. In all of the posts and web references I've looked at, the G50 seemed to be the only case that allows a side shift (as well as the smaller 914 boxes), but I'd never found any info for this kind of set-up for a 930. Tell me this is so!!

Ah Terry, anything is possible. Remove the fulcrum plate, and the lever engagement slots on the selector rods are right there, you just have to make up the mechanism to engage and operate them through this hole.
Not too difficult I would think, just a lever with a ball pivot as in any other directly operated trans.

Personally I would just put a power bulge in the rear panel if needed and go with the existing rear shift. If you're going RHD, RHS, a rear rod change is easy and precise. There is scope to shorten the rear shift appreciably also. Any of the above would be easier than the considerable work to perfect a one off side shift. But if you are that way inclined I guess that is not an issue.....

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Yeah Russ! You got me curious, so I pulled the plate off and studied the shift configuration. Yes, it would be "possible" to build something that may work there, but that's for another day after I get this thing on the road and wondering "what can I modify to make this better?" in my retirement years.

I've already shortened the shift rod (so much for sending it in as a core only). If it wasn't for the hermaphrodite internal bend in that shift rod insided the case, one could conceivably remove the entire mounting pad area and simply attach a shifting assembly onto a MUCH shortened shift rod (with a newly positioned bronze bushing). But Porsche necked-down the shaft and placed some bends in it preventing this simple fix.

 

[Steve26]

:embarassed: Dave,
I did not mean to piss you off so let me start by saying I'm sorry if I did!!! I was just trying to give you a data point having just done the conversion you are thinking about. I have a 930 which is much more affordable than a G50-50 to be sure so the $4000 I spent included a $2500 930. Again, please accept my apologies, I was trying to help but I guess it came out wrong. One of the problems with e mail. I feel like we are all a brotherhood of builders fulfilling our dreams and trying to help out where we can but might not communicate very well at times. I am sorry and hope nothing but the best for you.

Steve26

 

[Dave]

Steve no offence taken and I am not pissed at all....well I have had a few beers officer...Just shooting the breez with you and I enjoy your posting.:heart:

 

[Julian]

Another update:

Good news is that the 944 input shaft has been machined and resplined to work with the 016 casing front seal, clutch and spigot bearing. So that is the major worry about the process sorted out.

Now just waiting for 016 ali front trans casing to be machined out a bit to fit bigger 944 bearings and diff crown wheel and then the franken-trans can go back together. I may even get it running by end of May with luck.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Great update!

 

[Julian]

Another update:

Got all the bits and pieces back together now and hopefully should have an assembled trans in a week or two.

Some photos of the machined input end of the 944 input shaft, and machined 016 front casing attached.

The 40 may have some wedding duties in two weeks, so be nice to get it running for that. May be the only time I get to drive it gently and without busting something at least...

 

[Julian]

Aargh. Nothing is ever easy. Turns out there is a gap between the iron case and the 016 front ali case when it was being trial assembled to get the pinion shimming right. About 4 mm, as previously mentioned in this thread. I originally though the 4 mm difference was in the 944 iron casing (it wasn't - I measured it as soon as it arrived), but looks like it is in the 944 front ali casing instead. I'll measure it up first thing tomorrow morning and work out what to do from there. Think I'll need a laser cut spacer between the iron case and the 016 front ali case to get it to work. We'll get there...eventually.

Life wasn't meant to be easy!

 

[Randy V]

So frustrating... Can the gasket be used as a pattern to be scanned into a CNC Program?

If so - I think I'd recommend a steel spacer rather than alloy.

Are there locating dowels to insure proper alignment?

 

[Julian]

Another update...

Laser cut ali spacer plate is done as per attached photos. Just got to get it machined to correct thickness and then try assemble trans again.

Randy - yes, there are locating dowels, as can be seen in photos.

Nearly there, I hope!

Julian

 

[Jim Cowden]

Then all you will have to do is cut your selector rods and extend them by the thickness of your shim.(approx 4mm).

Cant remember why but I remember doing it for some reason.
The detents in the front case are 4mm out of alignment from the detent in the shafts.THAT WAS IT.

All I did was put the shaft in the lathe and ran the machine tool along the side to index it.
Cut it and machined a hole in each end at the cut.
Made a 4mm spacer with a hole in it.
Put a rolled pin in the shaft to hold it all together with the spacer in between and aligned the indexing marks.I then tig welded it all back up.
I made sure they ran true in the lathe before assembling.


Jim