Fair price for a RF GT40?

[Bill Hara]

I agree totally Dimi, my comparison was to try and put into perspective why GT40 cost are so comparatively different b/w Australia and the rest of the world. When someone from the US or UK says "Wow that is much more expensive in Oz than it is here" I supposed that there was a real explanation for this.
Personally, the only way I could have afforded one was to build it myself. Along the way I realised that I enjoyed the journey and learned a hell of a lot to boot. Not the sort of education I was likely to get from buying a Ferrari...

0.02c

Bill

 

[JackW]

Bill you are up to at least .06c now. And is that AUD or USD? Ha ha. Are you registered yet? Sorry for getting off track.

 

[Julian]

Dimi is right in saying we all have different reasons for a building/owning a GT40.

My reason is to have competitive car for hillclimb and circuit sprint use. Time to beat the 4WD's (damn EVO 9's are way too quick) at their own game. I figure if you're going to build a race car, why not one with a good looking body on it?

The added bonus of having a car that will pay your money back (plus some extra perhaps) if/when you have to sell is fantastic! Compared to a normal modified road/race car where you just flush all the money spent down the toilet at resale time it almost sounds too good to be true, and of course it is in a sense. Because all the time it took to build it, as previously mentioned, would cost a lot if you charged yourself (if that's not a circular argument!).

So, I've almost convinced myself that building a GT40 is a sensible decision! What's your excuse?

 

[Jim Cowden]

I have spent bag loads of time on my RF but I like doing that.
But it will be the only car that I will not lose on (money spent for money returned).

A better investment than some of my other cars.

Jim

 

[Bobski]

For our fellow members from the US a little comparison.

A new 2007 Shelby Mustang GT 500
$220,000 + ORC (on road costs) = $232,000.00 AUD

A 2005 Ford GT
4,500km on the clock, Tungsten in colour,
$475,000 + ORC = $499,450.00 AUD

These two are cars advertised in current Unique Cars. ORC's here in NSW are 5% stamp duty and rego. Not including insurance.

 

[ChrisL]

Although it has covered 25,000 km it had had a very easy life and has been exceptionally well cared for. Most of its driving has been on long open road trips with a seriously enforced speed limit of 100 or 110 kph.

I'm not convinced that this makes for a good car, especially when we are talking about a home-built unit. Yes, the components will be shiny and new but a home-built is far more than a collection of clean parts. If you don't drive the car to its limits, then you have no idea of its failings. I have no doubt at all that my car has been improved significantly because of the track time. The brakes now work as intended, the steering obeys my command and won't go loopey in an emergency, the valves are always adjusted correctly and the throttles balanced... the engine runs at its full potential for its setup smoothly and efficiently, the wheel bearings are always tight, the oil is always new... and so on. I have never driven a road car that has not seen track time that doesn't have major problems in some area, even when it is supposedly "well maintained". Just my experiences.

 

My reason is to have competitive car for hillclimb and circuit sprint use. Time to beat the 4WD's (damn EVO 9's are way too quick) at their own game.

You might find the neither F355 OR GT40 with get anywhere near filling that role.

Having raced a Lotus Elise (with 300hp) for a while now. Driving my GT40 (RF) is rather underwhealming. Nice cruisy road car, certainly, but NOT a track car. Unless you are going to do what Iian Pretty is doing (RF118). And that will cost you well more than the money you are talking about.
My Elise is road registered, i drive it at least 3 days a week. It has a supercharged Honda K20 engine conversion, some 2-way gas shocks, and other mods. It owes me about 100K(aus). But it goes around our race tracks ( on road tyres) in times that road-going Lambo's, GT3's, EVO's etc can only dream about.

It comes back to what Dimi has said, why build a GT40? BECAUSE YOU WANT TO ! It's that simple.

If you want a track car, there a many better options.

 

Thanks guys for an entertaining discussion.

I guess at the end of the day a GT40 replica appears to have good resale value and the rarity of them will preserve that. BTW I am not personally in the market for a GT40 at the moment but my father is. He used to own a DRB GT40 that he sold to Steve Shedden a few years ago and would like to buy another.. However, as much as he loves the GT40, at nearly $150k even he questions his love!

cheers

 

[JackW]

Some very interesting points made by Bobski, Chris and Tim. I agree with Chris about some track time sorting out a few bugs (maybe you could provide some feedback to RF so they can intergrate the improvements ou have made into their kits - just in time for when I buy mine in). I also agree with Tim about the Lotus cars. There was a 2000 Lotus Esprit in Unique cars this month with a twin turbo V8 for about 120K AUD. This is my other favorite car along with a GT40 and possibly the only car that might distract me from a GT40 purchase in the future. The pros are as been mentioned - factory built, incredible performance. The cons, and this is a biggie - NOT A GT40. I am not sure you can put a price on that. I am rambling now so I will sign off.

JW

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I own both a F355 F1 Ferrari and a GT40 (DRB).

I doubt very much Ravenoak that you could get a "Decent" 355 for $150K. Sure you will find earlier models for around that price but when you explore what needs to be done to bring them up to a decent standard you will be looking at between $180-$200K.

Having said that, both cars are a pleasure to drive and both are unique.
I much prefer to drive my GT40, IMHO it handles, stops, sounds and goes much better than the Ferrari. And gets much more WOW response whenever I take it out.

The Gt40 is a much easier and less expensive car to service and maintain. For instance the cam belts on the Ferrari need to be changed every couple of years and that requires the engine to be removed.

I love both, but if I were forced to sell one it would be the Fcar not the GT40.

 

[Julian]

Well, I think Pete has:
1) A good perspective on both (lucky bastard owning both) and
2) Too much money (or had too much money!).

Not to get too far off topic here, but Tim, I wouldn't have sold my previous competition car and built a GT40 if I didn't think the GT would be superior in every way. And yes, I know about how nasty Elise type things can be to beat. There are several very competitive ones over here including quad throttle body 160 RWHP series 1 & 2, 240 Cup supercharged factory racecar, 340R etc etc. And I'd like to give one a go, believe me! But they all don't have enough go. Perhaps your converted and supercharged one does!

Previous car was a 1982 RX-7 with about 315 RWHP. This was very competitive overall against all comers including GT3's, Elises, WRX's and EVO's, GT-R's etc. Now for a DRB GT40 I have: Same weight, lower COG, wider track, much more rubber on the road (235 & 275 vs 205 tyres!), bigger brakes, more power, better weight distribution for traction under power, adjustable suspension, stiffer chassis. So, it ticks every box need to be quicker in all aspects of competition, in theory! Trick is to make it all work together harmoniously, but from my brief shakedown tests pre-registration, I think it should be good.

Time will tell if I've made a good choice or not I guess. And to get back on topic, I won't lose a bucket load of money if I don't like it!

 

[roaldin]

Having been in one of the above mentioned Elises I can report that they are surprisingly strong. Not mind-blowing but they certainly go entertainingly hard and after all there's a lot more to a car than it's accelleration. The car I went in was pretty good at the rest of those things, if a bit soft (it was a road going version after all).

My RF is rapidly improving but is a long way behind my hillclimb car (AWD shopping trolley ). I don't think there's a chance in hell the RF could get near it at one of those.
On a circuit my car should end up being quite quick I think, especially the more open circuits.
Without wings etc it won't decimate the competition but hell it'll look great.

This thread is really about value and I'm afraid I have no idea where to start on that except to say that I never intended to sell my car and therefore never thought of it as a financial investment, it's an investment in living.

Ferrari, Lotus, WRX, GT40 - whatever floats your boat is ok with me, just as long as it makes your time here more enjoyable.

Tim.

 

well put Tim.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

You got it Tim, an investment in Living.epper:epper:Well put.

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

I know will kill me now.

I completely agree to Tim comment, but also remember he doesnt have a standard Elise. I've driven several times such pretty lotus (cause I love theme and also active subscriber of italian lotus club),and his main lack always have been that stupid engine.(think lotus is selling nearly a rolling chassis with a service engine..not more)
The only decent one I had in my hands was a Motorsport Elise (190hp),bought in UK by a rich friend and used for few months (every time something was happening..including to see flying away a light at top speed in highway..)
Sold after few months for a tuned RUF Porsche 964 Turbo II, tuned by Orlando Redolfi. (the price was nearly an exchange between the elise and the old stuttgard rocket).
No way to describe the difference in the cars,the porsche was a true yellow bird.Extreme respect for such incredible car.
The porsche is 20 yrs old,but has the german perfection in assembly,and that is always a pleasure in a car(no way Marcus..I love the toys done by your people, u know.....).

For Pete:
if u will sell the gt40 and keep the "fiat 355" I will be no longer your friend.......
Keep the only good thing of that fiat (the maranello v8..) and place it inside a Noble p4.
Even better...spend that money and take one of the new 430 spyder.... kmon


IMHO if u are searching for something really cheap to kill in a track, seriously look at old M3s or Porsches.
Today E36s have too cheap prices,and 3.2 engines anyway have that 326hp,remeber also the car was developed at the Nordschleife.... just delete all u can to save weight, check a little the brakes and enjoy.
For 4000 euros u are drifting!
The gt40 is a legend...and something really too special (life devoted..u know..).
Suspect the price for a serious track car will be incredibly high (in EVO magazine...Martin's 6GTD was scheduled for 130.000 GBP..)

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Hi Paolo,
As I said if I was forced to sell, it would be the Ferrari not the GT40. So do not worry my friend .
The 430 is an idea but I have to wait until the used ones become more available.
The tax in Australia on new cars is ridiculous, so it is wise to wait.

Ciao.

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

eheh...the berlinetta is still a nice one Pete

 

[hoppy]

Funny because I was thinking that asking 80ish for my new 302 DRB was probably a big ask.

Dave,

That is probably what my labour bill will end up being for my turn key DRB,so don't sell your excellent workmanship short.

 

[Dave]

That is probably what my labour bill will end up being for my turn key DRB,so don't sell your excellent workmanship short

Thanks, I suppose my point is actually applying a value to a car that
is so individual in terms of build cost / perceived value / Actual value compared to say a factory car and what the market will pay in terms of how long will it take to get a kit. DRB has a waiting list for a approx 50 weeks at the moment for a basic kit, how long will it take for a turn key??
So I suppose if your desperate to get into a GT40 in Australia then you will pay $120 000 - $150 000ish. If you can wait and build it yourself then you will save $50-$60 000 IMHO.




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[Ryan L]

Seams to be on the mark price wise. And as stated, second hand is the only way to get a 302

There is another GT40 in a dealership, Melbourne, Northern end of Spenser St for sale at the moment as well. Can’t remember the price, is north of 100k aus, and the spec is not as good in my opinion.