Over 92 million Americans out of work force

[Jim Craik]

Yes Doug, I'm sure there will be some who won't believe the data, but this was not an NBC poll, this poll was taken by the "Spectrem Group" a well respected financial and invester institution.

Its nice to see that the "smart money" agrees with us!

 

[Steve]

Jim, you don't really read other's posts do you. You just keep those blinders on and go full steam ahead with the liberal diatribe. Blinded by your faith in it's righteousness. Assuming that if it wins a popularity contest it must be the right course of action.

At no point have I implied wealth inequality isn't a problem. It is. It's much more of a problem internationally than in the US to be sure but it is an issue. We throw huge sums of money at entertainers and athletes and corporate CEOs. Many of these people do very little for our society and many are nothing but pariah's.

The difference is that I am confident that government regulation and increase in taxation will exacerbate the problem and create many additional problems at the same time (such as tanking our economy). You have a blind faith in government to "do the right thing" with their vast confiscated wealth in spite of the tremendous evidence that they're incompetent, wasteful and corrupt. Similarly incompetent wasteful and corrupt private institutions would go out of business and cease to be a problem. There are no such checks and balances on government greed run amuck.

Placing such faith in government is the height of naivite

 

[Steve]

And I would certainly agree with the most popular 2 items on the survey. The cost of higher education in the US is a crime. Universities are wasteful and have not held their costs in line, meanwhile they frequently provide irrelevant education. The student loan bubble, I fear, could be pretty ugly when it pops. The defaults could be ugly. Additional avings incentives? Well, what do you have in mind?

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve,

Just so I understand, yesterday I stated that higher minimum wage and higher taxes for the wealthy was the best way to address the huge wealth inequality, you ridiculed me and made comments like "a fool and his money will soon be parted"

Then when I posted a chart showing the huge "wealth inequality" you critisized the data and said this:

"A few ultrarich billionaires can skew that graph in a major way. But hey, skewing is one of your best skills".

Now after a poll shows that a majority of wealthy Americans agree with me.......

********

Now you say: "At no point have I implied wealth inequality isn't a problem".

OK, at last we can agree there's a problem, Steve, what are your thoughts on the best was to make this better?

Isn't a higher minimum wage the obvious place to start, maybe to the point that a full time worker without dependants would pay at least some taxes?

 

[Steve]

Belief in Govt to solve this problem via higher taxes is certainly a fools errand. That's what I'm saying. So, if you want to pay higher taxes knock yourself out, but that is certainly foolish and don't expect others to want to waste their money with you.

Yes, that chart can be easily skewed by a few ultra-rich billionaires as the limit to their wealth is infinity whereas the floor is finite. Basic math.

Higher minimum wage is a double edge sword. It will drive some companies out of business. For instance, many small grocery stores operate on the smallest of margins and rely on part time or high school student help in order to remain in business. Raise the minimum wage and they go out of business (and jobs are lost) or they're forced to raise prices commensurate to the raise in wages, resulting in inflation which eats up most of the increase in the minimum wage. So, do I think that's the answer? No. It's simplistic and makes for great talking points but, once again, our poverty rate has fluctuated only a few percentage points but ultimately hasn't changed in 50 years.

I am sure of one thing. Government is not the solution to the problem, government is the problem. There is no government entitlement program in the US that has ever been discontinued once created (that should scare the shit out of everyone). Every decade there's more spending (and waste) on social programs and we're now in debt up to our eyeballs, but the poverty rate is the same. Trillions and trillions of govt spending funded by the taxpayer and the poverty rate is the same. So, how many more trillions in taxes do you think the federal govt should siphon from the citizens before they get it right Jim?

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve,

You said this about my calling for higher taxes for the wealthy:

"if you want to pay higher taxes knock yourself out, but that is certainly foolish and don't expect others to want to waste their money with you."

Steve, do you mean other than the 64% of Millionaires who said we should do just that?

 

[Doug S.]

Jim, you don't really read other's posts do you. You just keep those blinders on and go full steam ahead with the liberal diatribe. Blinded by your faith in it's righteousness. Assuming that if it wins a popularity contest it must be the right course ...

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, guys, Jim is right. Our political system DOES seem to be a popularity contest. If you need proof, take a look at the results of the last presidential election. With all the people who were disappointed with Obama's record during his first term, there is no way Romney should have lost...but he did because his political gaffes cost him the "popular" vote, and without a brother in one of the swing states who could assure him the election through manipulation of "hanging chads", his was a lost cause.

One man, one vote. That is the foundation on which our country was founded. The electoral college was a way to accommodate for the technical inadequacies of the days of the founding fathers, but we are beyond that now. If you want to be scared of something, be scared of what the near future holds in store. Can you imagine saying "President Cyrus" when Billy Ray's daughter is elected...or "Vice President Lohan"?

Notoriety=popularity=success with the young crowd.

Of course, party conventions COULD be more interesting with the candidates swinging nude on a "wrecking ball"...you'll wish for the things Jim is advocating if we ever get "there".

I think I'd vote for Kid Rock:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvTHtxxZ9r0[/ame]

Cheers!!

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve,

This is not a zero sum game,

I Really think that raising the minimum wage would actually help everyone. Wouldn't your average store owner love many millions of new customers. People who have never had "spending money" suddenly able to go to the mall, eat at a resturant, actually buy a car?

Wouln't Walmart sales increase if suddenly Walmart and millions of other workers had disposable income? Walmart suppliers would need more trucks, more workers.........all those cars will need tires...more workers, who have money and go to Walmart.....allowing middle management to pay off their student loans!

Much of the added payroll cost would be made up with increased sales.....everyone wins.

I call this the "Trickel up theory".

 

[Steve]

Jim,

In know you're in Cali but I'd advise you to stay away from the medical marijuana. It's having some seriously bad side effects.

 

[Doug S.]

Considering how well Reagan's "Trickle Down" theory worked, I'd say Jim's "Trickle Up" theory is worth a try....couldn't be any worse than Reagan's economic Waterloo for the MAJORITY of Americans (and, as a democracy, aren't we as a country all about the majority?)!

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

Yes Doug, it was a double shot, at the same time Regan cut taxes he doubled spending because all that money was going to "Trickel down"!


The money never trickled but the debt went through the ceiling and has remained......

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I do love the internet!

Imagine my suprise when I opened Flipboard to check the "Market News". It appears that my views are in the majority.

This poll came out today.........

CNBC survey shows millionaires want higher taxes to fix inequality

CNBC Millionaire Survey: Inequality 'major problem'
Tuesday, 6 May 2014 | 6:51 AM ET
CNBC's Robert Frank rolls out the results from the first CNBC Millionaire Survey, where respondents sound off on achieving the American dream.

In the heated debate over inequality, the wealthy are usually portrayed as the cause rather than the solution.

But CNBC's first-ever Millionaire Survey reveals that 51 percent of American millionaires believe inequality is a "major problem" for the U.S., and nearly two-thirds support higher taxes on the wealthy and a higher minimum wage as ways to narrow the wealth gap.

The findings show that—far from being a purely self-interested voting bloc—American millionaires have complicated views when it comes to the wealth gap and opportunity in America. They are unashamed of their own wealth and attribute their success to hard work, smart investing and savings. They also believe that anyone in America can get wealthy if they work hard.

The CNBC Millionaire Survey polled 514 people with investable assets of $1 million or more, which represents the top 8 percent of American households. The respondents came from around the country and were split between Democrats, Republicans and Independents.
The online survey was conducted in March by Spectrem Group on behalf of CNBC. The overall margin of error was 4.3 percentage points.

*****************

Just as I said, these wealthy Americans also think that higher taxes and a higher mimimum wage are the best way to go!

Geeez, on CNBC, who woulda thought, amazing!

 

[Jim Craik]

Yes Doug, I'm sure there will be some who won't believe the data, but this was not an NBC poll, this poll was taken by the "Spectrem Group" a well respected financial and invester institution

Al you may have missed this post, CNBC did pay for it but a respected polling group did the poll.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Steve,

This is not a zero sum game,

I Really think that raising the minimum wage would actually help everyone. Wouldn't your average store owner love many millions of new customers. People who have never had "spending money" suddenly able to go to the mall, eat at a resturant, actually buy a car?

Wouln't Walmart sales increase if suddenly Walmart and millions of other workers had disposable income? Walmart suppliers would need more trucks, more workers.........all those cars will need tires...more workers, who have money and go to Walmart.....allowing middle management to pay off their student loans!

Much of the added payroll cost would be made up with increased sales.....everyone wins.

I call this the "Trickel up theory".

What income level do you think a minimum wage increase would effect the most when businesses raise their prices to pay for the wage hike? And of course if they want to stay competitive they would reduce their labor force to keep the same overhead. More unemployment.

 

[Larry L.]

CNBC survey shows millionaires want higher taxes to fix inequality

Just as I said, these wealthy Americans also think that higher taxes and a higher mimimum wage are the best way to go!

So..........what do you suppose is STOPPING THEM from handing the govt all the extra money they think the govt ought to have RIGHT NOW and 'up' the wages they're paying their people as well at the same time on their own???????????????? What are they waiting for? WHY must there be a LAW forcing EVERYBODY to pay higher taxes/wages first? Why aren't they just "walking the walk" right now? Why don't they fire all their big bux tax lawyers/accountants, 'take NO deductions, 'get out of all their tax shelters and just let the tax man grab what he wants?

WHAT'S STOPPING 'EM???

Think about it, Jim. Think about it.

(Hint: the explanation starts with 'hypoc.....')

 

[Steve]

As usual, Jim, you've taken to only presenting the part of the argument that supports you blind allegiances. Half-truths are the equivalent of lying of course:

64% of millionaires support raising taxes. 78% of democrats did whereas only 31% of republicans. 63% of republicans say they they're wealthy due to hard work. 45% of democrats say they're wealthy due to family or place of birth. One can conclude that the wealthy democrats in this survey are 2nd generation wealthy who didn't work for it themselves. The laziness and worthlessness of the 2nd generation wealthy is well documented, as is the hypocrisy. Example: The MN governor Mark Dayton raised income taxes but his family trust is based in South Dakota. Convenient. Costco CEO supported Obama's raising income taxes but at the end of 2012 overbonused himself and other execs to ramp up their income before the higher taxes went into effect.

You also conveniently ignore questions that torpedo your BS. Poverty in the US hasn't changed in 50 years regardless of income tax rates so how will raising taxes change it this time?

 

[Steve]

I love how the CNN page on this survey shows a 60ish full-head-of-hair smiling guy in a pink shirt on his sail boat. Yeah right. That's the wealthy 2nd generation lazy SOB millionaire. If you read "The Millionaire Next Door" you realize most American millionaires drive a chevy, work like a dog and take little or no vacation. Clearly the difference between millionaire republicans and millionaire democrats....

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve,

You said this yesterday "At no point have I implied wealth inequality isn't a problem".

So you admit wealth inequity is a problem, but you say Govenment is not the answer.......

What is the answer?

************

Larry,

Your answer is that people who care should just send in extra taxes.....

Larry adds that those who care and are not just sending in extra tax money are "hypocrites".

So when Republicans call for more military spending. Larrys answer is simple, let Republicand purchace that aircraft carrier with their own money and if they don't Larry thinks you are Hypocrites......

So when Republicans insisted on war in Iraq, Larrys answer would be, those who want to go to war, go ahead, you pay for it, send your Republican kids to fight and die.......

Thats Larry's solution.......

Anyone agree with Larry?

 

[Larry L.]

Unbelievable...

Yet again you've ducked, dodged, deflected, redirected and spun...not to mention having put words in someone else's mouth ala a certain lib politician's "Surrender to me" campaign ad.

 

[Bob Fechter]

What percentage of your income do you voluntarily give to charitable organizations?

I'm at 15%.