Taking History Back From the Liberal's Lies.

Dear Doug, when I went to school, most of the teachers were conservative. Oh, we had Mr. Wilson, who was a President Wilson fan, but in the end he was harmless.

What I have against the school system is what it tried to teach my children when they went through. The slant was always to the left, culminating with their history teacher in high school. This "history" teacher, not philosophy, taught that "Karl Marx was right, and communism just hasn't had a fair chance." I talked with him to see if he was just trying to be controversial/provocative, but no, he was a hide bound communist. And, this is from a national blue ribbon school that would do nothing to intervene with his agenda.

Tell me Doug, have you never dropped a little left wing propaganda on some of your students? Hmmm, just a little?

p.s. Would someone please quote this so Doug can pretend he ignores it? Thanks.
 
So to get this straight, you're quite happy for your kids to be taught a right wing agenda by a conservative school. But your not happy for your kids to be taught a left wing agenda by a left wing teacher.

What ever happened to teaching kids the facts and then letting them make up their own mind? As adults we have lots of prejudices, kids only have the ones we adults have given them.

Tell me Bob, how would you feel if one of your kids wanted to vote Democrat at the next election? It is after all a free country, is it not?
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
If the teachers are unionised or unionized for the Americans then yes their teachings will have a labour or liberal slant

Are most teachers unionised? I know in the UK they are, having had to take days off work when they decided to strike! Now there is the NUT!

Ian
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Ian,

I'm not so sure that the liberal slant of teachers has much to do with unions.

I think that in general, people who go into the teaching profession tend be "people" persons (perhaps less "lonesome") and tend have a stronger feeling for others and society in general.

Consevatives who have always been under reprisented in the teaching profession, tend to care a little less about society in general, tend to have less education and perhaps go into other lines of work.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Ian,

I'm not so sure that the liberal slant of teachers has much to do with unions.

I think that in general, people who go into the teaching profession tend be "people" persons (less "lonesome") and perhaps have a stronger feeling for others and society in general.

Consevatives who have always been under reprisented in the teaching profession, tend to care a little less about society in general, tend to have less education and perhaps go into other lines of work.

I would tend to disagree with that.
Over here teaching is seen as a job for life with good pay and a bulletproof pension.

If anyone goes against the union they blow the whistle and go out on strike.

The unoins are Labour over here so the teachers will have a Labour slant in their teachings.

I presume the same holds true in USA

Conservatives are not necessarily non people people

Ian
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Ian,

We have some teachers here on the forum, and hopefully they will chime in.

That said, unfortunatly, here in the US, teachers tend to be underpaid. Additionally, even as we speak, conservatve leaders in red states have been running a "war on teachers", I know that might be hard for you to believe, but its true. Just Google "Wisconsin war on teachers".
 
Since we're Googling, let's type in "teacher's union corruption."

The war is not on teachers, but on the corrupt unions they are forced to belong to.

Might I add that it gets very tiring to keep hearing about how low paid teachers are. In Los Angeles, CA, the average teachers pay is $58,000. That's for eight month's work with weeks and weeks of vacation in those eight months. Then we have their very generous healthcare, retirement packages.
Teacher Salary in Los Angeles, CA | Indeed.com

Everything the Conservative movement is dubbed a "war" by the left, and yet when you realize that 22%-50% of Los Angeles Unified School District children drop out, who is the "war" really on? With a price tag of $29,780 per student, there have been years when there wasn't enough money to buy books for these kids.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Everything in the Conservative movement is dubbed a "war" by the left/QUOTE]

If you had been paying attention you would know this term is used by both sides. Lets see if I can help you out...............just a few consevative wars, off the top of my head.

War on the Founding Fathers
War on the Consitiution
War on religion
War on Christmas
War on conservative values
War on family values
War on the rich
War on guns
War on conservative talk shows
War on war
There are many more, but you get the idea.

There is no way I would teach or do any job for only $58,000, you could not possably live above the poverty level around here on that income.
 
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$58,000 is pretty good for the average teacher. Only a few have ever risen above mediocrity in my experiences for my and my children's teachers.

That is why the only equitable solution is vouchers. The market takes care of the inequities of socialist pay schemes (union wages) and rewards the best, keeping the good ones and attracting those who would be good.

And, honestly, without disrespect Jim, its not your fault, your English teacher has failed you.

Edit added: Let us not forget the extra four months that an industirous teacher can use to make more money.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
$58,000 is pretty good for the average teacher. Only a few have ever risen above mediocrity in my experiences for my and my children's teachers..

..in my experiance for my and my childerens teachers...Posted by the great english critic Mr Fechter

Mr Fechter, when you critisize someone for their english skills, try and get it right.

********************

Mr Fechter, my english teachers absolutly did not fail me. I have dislexia, spelling and writing have always been very hard for me.

Yet with the help of some great and inspiring teaches, who never gave up on me, I have two College Degrees and make a good six figure income WRITING!!

How about you?
 
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Break it down, Jim, "in my experience for my teachers," "in my experience for my children's teachers," = "in my experience for my and my children's teachers."
 

Keith

Moderator
So to get this straight, you're quite happy for your kids to be taught a right wing agenda by a conservative school. But your not happy for your kids to be taught a left wing agenda by a left wing teacher.

What ever happened to teaching kids the facts and then letting them make up their own mind? As adults we have lots of prejudices, kids only have the ones we adults have given them.

Tell me Bob, how would you feel if one of your kids wanted to vote Democrat at the next election? It is after all a free country, is it not?

Are there right wing and left wing schools Jon? (Apart from Eton I guess) :) I'll be buggered if I ever go there again... :laugh:

I firmly believe the days of non politically leaning teaching agendas are well and truly over, in the same way as uber 'liberal' interpretation of fundamental law. It must be a hell of a temptation to try and "correct" perceived wrongs in history, or impose your own version of it from a modern perspective, abandoning conventional wisdom and the teachings of Solomon on the way.

I do have massive sympathy for teachers however, in an age where parental responsibility has been all but abdicated - but like nursing - it's a vocation not a career and money or hidden political agendas (should) have nowt to do with it. It is a job with massive responsibility - and not many contemporary teachers fully understand that.

If you have the ability and the passion to pass on knowledge (without colouration) to children, then you are one of the most important people on the planet, for there lies the future. If you want to politicise that education for an obscure belief or agenda, then, you are guilty of far more than simple neglect.

PS, I am probably being thick but perhaps one of our American friends can answer: Can you be Conservative or Liberal in both Democrat and GOP parties?

If the answer is YES then it explains much.
 

Keith

Moderator
..in my experiance for my and my childerens teachers...Posted by the great english critic Mr Fechter

Mr Fechter, when you critisize someone for their english skills, try and get it right.

********************

Mr Fechter, my english teachers absolutly did not fail me. I have dislexia, spelling and writing have always been very hard for me.

Yet with the help of some great and inspiring teaches, who never gave up on me, I have two College Degrees and make a good six figure income WRITING!!

How about you?

The truth is out there.... be careful what you wish for Jim.....

The Rolling Stones - It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (Live) - YouTube
 
So to get this straight, you're quite happy for your kids to be taught a right wing agenda by a conservative school. But your not happy for your kids to be taught a left wing agenda by a left wing teacher.

What ever happened to teaching kids the facts and then letting them make up their own mind? As adults we have lots of prejudices, kids only have the ones we adults have given them.

Tell me Bob, how would you feel if one of your kids wanted to vote Democrat at the next election? It is after all a free country, is it not?

Facts are wonderful, but it depends on the meaning of "fact." To the victor goes the writing of the history, and I must concede that the left in America has totally won the information wars.

Right now, my daughter is Conservative. My son wishes to start his own business in California, which makes him very unhappy with the business climate there. He, like so much of the youth in this country is all behind Ron Paul, but he'd vote for anyone rather than Obama. Its all fine with me. I did what I could and they are adults now. I'm glad, though, that they tend to the Right.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
I do have massive sympathy for teachers however, in an age where parental responsibility has been all but abdicated - but like nursing - it's a vocation not a career and money or hidden political agendas (should) have nowt to do with it.

If you have the ability and the passion to pass on knowledge (without colouration) to children, then you are one of the most important people on the planet, for there lies the future. If you want to politicise that education for an obscure belief or agenda, then, you are guilty of far more than simple neglect.

PS, I am probably being thick but perhaps one of our American friends can answer: Can you be Conservative or Liberal in both Democrat and GOP parties?

If the answer is YES then it explains much.

Pardon me, Keith, but I find those two comments I highlighted in red to be diametrically opposed. How could you consider a job that is held "...one of the most important people on the planet", held by a person who works diligently despite all the challenges (not just the students, you have no idea how much of a challenge it is to keep up with the governmental changes in education), and not consider those people professionals or that choice "...a career".

That's a ludicrous statement, plain and simple. I have a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, and multiple semesters of post-graduate work...how can that not be adequate to call a 32 years of service to the children of our nation a "....career"....what else would it take?

I agree that parents have abdicated on their responsibility to raise their kids with good values....they have said many times in my presence that they think that is the school's job, but then parents don't want us teaching morals or doing anything that they would call "immoral", like passing out birth-control pills in the student clinic to keep those very children of theirs from getting pregnant out of wedlock. I'm not a prude, the "out of wedlock" part matters not to me, but how many young ladies who start out their adult life, after they graduate from high school, with a child who manage to go back to school to develop some employability/earning power? Yeah....not many, you can bet on that. Education is the great divider between a life of poverty and one that can be comfortable....never mind getting rich!

Schools and local school systems are not necessarily "political", but state school boards ARE and many times those positions are filled by people with their own political agendas. I was raised in the state of Kansas and a decade ago Kansas became the laughing stock of America when the religious fundamentalists managed to elect enough representatives to the STATE school board to have "creationism" declared the truth and have any mention of evolution prohibited in the public schools. How do you think well-intentioned teachers, who from my experience only want to raise functional adults who will be able to support themselves LEGALLY, reacted to that? I, for one, was ashamed to admit I even knew where Kansas was....

To answer your last question, the answer is "yes", there are conservative Democrats and "liberal" Republicans.....yet, you don't see the Democrats arguing over which of the candidates can "out-liberal" the other one like you see the Republicans fighting to see who can be the most conservative. Add to that, it is not unusual to find people "switching" parties in the middle of the stream, so to speak, when they find their political views (and, most likely, their political future) out of synch with modern issues...not unusual, at all.

We're a really screwed up society....hard to believe we've lasted this long, so it should come as no surprise that we're entering a decline as a world power, economically at least....we still have the military power to kick any country's ass into the next continent, but we'll see how long that lasts, too.

There is little difference between a conservative Democrat and a "liberal" Republican, until you get into the voting booth....

Cheers!

Doug
 

Keith

Moderator
That's a ludicrous statement, plain and simple. I have a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, and multiple semesters of post-graduate work...how can that not be adequate to call a 32 years of service to the children of our nation a "....career"....what else would it take?


Doug

Firstly Doug, may I thank you for reading my post - a quite unusual phenomena in this day and age. You will also forgive me as I have had no such formal education as yourself and so my choice of words may seem oddball.

'Ludicrous' is a bit of a strong comment for a concept that may just be lost in translation across the pond and I may well be basing my statements on a totally outmoded belief set from 50 years ago - the very last time I ever saw the inside of a school.

Teaching, like nursing has become a career but they are originally both callings.

Nobody ever used to teach or nurse for the money - some even did these things for free and that is what I meant by the term 'vocational'.

The schism in teaching practice became obvious post WWII and given that we had already lost the entire brightest and best generation of 'driven' people in the tragic poppy fields of Flanders in WWI (we're still fighting in Poppy fields albeit of a different hue - what's that all about then?) the kind of 'supply' teachers we had to endure in the '50's were, in short, atrocious.

I am absolutely not blaming my lack of education on them however, but I can clearly remember the 'driven' teachers well, and everything about them - they stood out amongst a sea of teaching mediocrity. A fairly recent diagnosis of long term AADD (a form of autism) plainly didn't help.

A passionate vocational teacher is a God in my eyes, and a poor 'career' teacher is worse than a bad parent and a dominating sibling.

A personal opinion based on my own experience, and I hope I've explained myself a little better, because the last time I did anything described as 'ludicrous' was actually my very last homework project 50 years ago.. :)
 
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